This has probably been covered before, but I’ve never seen it so I thought I’d ask. With the prices of NIB pins going through the roof I can’t understand why distributors and/or manufacturers don’t offer interest-free financing the way many other industries do (vehicles, furniture, appliances, etc.). I would think that would boost sales considerably. Anybody have any insight into this?
It's generally unwise to go into debt for a pinball machine.
Save up if you want one, then buy when you can afford it.
Quoted from Charlemagne1987:I can’t understand why distributors and/or manufacturers don’t offer interest-free financing the way many other industries do
Risk of non-payment, limited storage space, logistical issues, potential legal issues....
Distributors do the job of distributing, not loaning.
I usually use my AMEX card then do payment plan with them (AMEX), yes it costs a few hundred bucks extra, but then I can space it out over time. It has worked out for me so far. But I have done zero % on paypal with some ebay purchases, never had an issue here
just make sure you pay it and dont miss a payment!
the best is a couple years ago for Winter Amex had zero % interest on like 45-50k, I bought so many machines 12 months no interest.. awesome!
If you can't be trusted with debt I wouldn't advise buying games on credit, but I do it all the time.
Why not spread out a NIB game across 18months while I use the cash to buy project games that I can buy/sell in the meantime? I operate all my games too so that's the main reason I use credit.
Distros can't even keep hot new pins in stock. They are sold as soon as they have their allotment, sometimes months before they will even receive them.
Why would they need to offer any interest free financing when they can't even keep them in stock?
You are trying to find a solution to a problem that simply does not exist in the market.
I understand what everyone is saying about the foolishness of getting into debt to buy pins. I own 11 pins, most were bought NIB, and I carry zero debt on them. I’m just wondering why this isn’t an option when it is for other items that are oftentimes less expensive. It seems to me that zero percent financing for 12 months or so would be the tipping point that would get people who want to buy games to actually do it. I’ve met a lot of people who’ve said they want to get a game but can’t come up with the thousands of dollars at one time…but spaced out over a year would make it more palatable/possible.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Stern absolutely offers financing on the few factory direct pins they sell. I grabbed this for posterity when the Bond 60ths were available direct. Only 19% APR!
[quoted image]
Holy shit! I wasn’t aware of that. 19%? Damn. Again, why not zero percent for a fixed period of time?!
I think it's funny some pinball people are telling you that it's a bad idea to finance it because it's a toy. It's not something I personally would do or have done.... But..
People finance boats and their useless corvettes all the time. I don't really see a difference.
Quoted from Charlemagne1987:I understand what everyone is saying about the foolishness of getting into debt to buy pins. I own 11 pins, most were bought NIB, and I carry zero debt on them. I’m just wondering why this isn’t an option when it is for other items that are oftentimes less expensive. It seems to me that zero percent financing for 12 months or so would be the tipping point that would get people who want to buy games to actually do it. I’ve met a lot of people who’ve said they want to get a game but can’t come up with the thousands of dollars at one time…but spaced out over a year would make it more palatable/possible.
Typically if someone is offering 0% financing they are making their money with a higher purchase price. This is why you either get $x thousands off or 0% when purchasing a new vehicle.
As far as pinball dealers, you would have to setup another financing department that keeps track of payments and take the risk of nonpayment. This is a headache I'm sure they do not want.
Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:I think it's funny pinball people are telling you that it's a bad idea to finance it because it's a toy. It's not something I personally would do or have done.... But..
People finance boats and their useless corvettes all the time. I don't really see a difference.
My own personal philosophy is, if it is a toy, it doesn't get financed. This includes luxury cars, boats, snowmobiles, you get the picture. Honestly my wife and I have worked our way up to only purchasing vehicles we can pay in full for at time of purchase. But that's just us and I know there are a lot of other good ways people manage their big purchases.
Quoted from Charlemagne1987:Holy shit! I wasn’t aware of that. 19%? Damn. Again, why not zero percent for a fixed period of time?!
Because they don't need to. Why would they want to court your friends who want to buy but can't when they have a line of people who want to buy and can?
It was summed up by 
purbeast very well in post #7
Quoted from purbeast:Distros can't even keep hot new pins in stock. They are sold as soon as they have their allotment, sometimes months before they will even receive them.
Why would they need to offer any interest free financing when they can't even keep them in stock?
You are trying to find a solution to a problem that simply does not exist in the market.
Quoted from Monk:My own personal philosophy is, if it is a toy, it doesn't get financed. This includes luxury cars, boats, snowmobiles, you get the picture. Honestly my wife and I have worked our way up to only purchasing vehicles we can pay in full for at time of purchase. But that's just us and I know there are a lot of other good ways people manage their big purchases.
I completely agree, I was just trying to draw a parallel to the fact that people finance toys that they don't need all the time.
Quoted from Wmsfan-GAP:These are luxury goods like cars. If you want to buy a NIB game, you buy it.
If you need to finance a pinball, chances are that’s not where you should be spending your money in the first place.
Um....'most' get loans for cars...boats, campers. Luxury non essential items. It's pretty much the standard for 90% of the country.
I remember getting a loan for my first PC back in the day lmao. Oh the good old days.
Quoted from Charlemagne1987:Holy shit! I wasn’t aware of that. 19%? Damn. Again, why not zero percent for a fixed period of time?!
I'll tell you why on a personal level. I sold/traded my TNA last week. I had 8 offers including 2 full price offers. One of my offers was for someone asking if I could do a payment plan or a rent to own. Why on earth would I agree to getting my money over the course of a few years when I have multiple eager buyers ready to buy it from me today? Now, If someone would have paid $10,000 over the course of a year instead of $8,400 I might have taken it if I could have held onto the machine, but if I let the other guy have the pin before being paid in full all of the risk would be on me. I certainly wouldn't do it if I wasn't going to be paid a large fee for the privilege. Also, if were to finance the game and the other guy doesn't pay... then what? Assuming I could go reposes it without issue, how much time, money, effort, and mileage is put into that. Would a pinball manufacturer or a local distributor have the ability to go get a machine back? I'm assuming it would cost $300-$600 in labor to go get it assuming it wasn't messed up, and then again there would be $500-$2000 in depreciation. The cost/benefit for the company gets really bad really fast. Now if it were lean times and the company could make more machines than they could sell, then what you are saying starts to make sense. We may see it in the next few years with this many manufacturers, but so long as everything is selling out with people fighting over games at launch there is really no incentive for people to do this.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:I'll tell you why on a personal level. I sold/traded my TNA last week. I had 8 offers including 2 full price offers. One of my offers was for someone asking if I could do a payment plan or a rent to own. Why on earth would I agree to getting my money over the course of a few years when I have multiple eager buyers ready to buy it from me today? Now, If someone would have paid $10,000 over the course of a year instead of $8,400 I might have taken it if I could have held onto the machine, but if I let the other guy have the pin before being paid in full all of the risk would be on me. I certainly wouldn't do it if I wasn't going to be paid a large fee for the privilege. Also, if were to finance the game and the other guy doesn't pay... then what? Assuming I could go reposes it without issue, how much time, money, effort, and mileage is put into that. Would a pinball manufacturer or a local distributor have the ability to go get a machine back? I'm assuming it would cost $300-$600 in labor to go get it assuming it wasn't messed up, and then again there would be $500-$2000 in depreciation. The cost/benefit for the company gets really bad really fast. Now if it were lean times and the company could make more machines than they could sell, then what you are saying starts to make sense. We may see it in the next few years with this many manufacturers, but so long as everything is selling out with people fighting over games at launch there is really no incentive for people to do this.
That’s probably the best explanation I’ve read. Thanks for sharing.
Quoted from joetechbob:Would hate to be a pinball repo man...
Lol. "See's pinball repo van pull up, man gets out of van with an Escalera", tells wife "Let's grab the game and go out the patio entrance"
Quoted from joetechbob:Would hate to be a pinball repo man...
"You need medical attention you just fell off the building"
"Bernice is fine lets get this Cirqus Voltaire, dawg!"
Quoted from Charlemagne1987:Again, why not zero percent for a fixed period of time?!
0% financing is a form of discount -- the seller loses money offering it since they have to administer the loan and take legal action if you default, plus monthly payments are worth less than up-front payment thanks to inflation and the time value of money.
Sellers offer discounts when they're worried about moving product. Stern and the other manufacturers are selling all they can make and then some (production backlogs are months to years long across the industry). That's not the kind of market that encourages sellers to offer discounts.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Stern absolutely offers financing on the few factory direct pins they sell. I grabbed this for posterity when the Bond 60ths were available direct. Only 19% APR!
[quoted image]
LOL. $5k in interest on a pinball machine. Perfect reason not to finance pinball machines.
When Virtua Fighter 2 came out it was $1K more than other fighting games.
Sale were dismal.
Sega came up with a plan. Put on a contract or your open account with your distributor and if you paid it up in 6 months Sega would pay the interest.
I took one then. Game would pay for itself in less than 6 months.
LTG : )
If you have good credit, you can find credit cards that offer 0% apr for up to 24 months. That seems like a good option as long as you know you can make the payments.
I would totally offer credit!!! The pinball repo business would be amazing. It’s not like cars which almost always lose money. Repo a CE and make tons of cash!
Quoted from galore2112:Repo a CE and make tons of cash!
Unless it wasn't maintained, or worked on by monkeys and now is trashed.
And unlike a car which may be outside at some point, can be grabbed and go. A game in someone's house might be harder or more dangerous to get.
LTG : )
If you were a commercial account... this discussion would be different. Leases and payments are common.
If you are a consumer, there are always 3rd parties willing to loan you money at obscene rates. Examples in ecommerce are just 3rd party lender offers who will pay the seller along with a kicker... while they take the loan and interest.
Quoted from fosaisu:0% financing is a form of discount -- the seller loses money offering it since they have to administer the loan and take legal action if you default, plus monthly payments are worth less than up-front payment thanks to inflation and the time value of money.
Sellers offer discounts when they're worried about moving product. Stern and the other manufacturers are selling all they can make and then some (production backlogs are months to years long across the industry). That's not the kind of market that encourages sellers to offer discounts.
Most of the furniture, jewelry stores etc... use third party solutions who provide the financing and take all the risk. Think affirm wells fargo etc... I just bought wifey a nice ring with 18 months zero percent financing thru wells fargo(who i despise but not paying them anything in the end)and btw this is the only way i would "finance" a pin and you need to be disciplined to do it for sure. Just my 2 cents
Quoted from Wmsfan-GAP:These are luxury goods like cars. If you want to buy a NIB game, you buy it.
If you need to finance a pinball, chances are that’s not where you should be spending your money in the first place.
In 2023 cars are luxury goods? If you want a new car you pay cash? I’m so confused by this post.
Quoted from drewbo81:Most of the furniture, jewelry stores etc... use third party solutions who provide the financing and take all the risk. Think affirm wells fargo etc... I just bought wifey a nice ring with 18 months zero percent financing thru wells fargo(who i despise but not paying them anything in the end)and btw this is the only way i would "finance" a pin and you need to be disciplined to do it for sure. Just my 2 cents
Exactly this. I recently bought the Tonal Gym through affirm, it was 0% over 4 years. I paid it off in 6 months and was able to enjoy the machine earlier than expected at no added cost.
I think manufacturers would be smart to start offering buy now pay later options due to the high costs. I think it’s dangerous for the consumer but the prices are getting too high for most people to afford.
Quoted from Geeterman1:Exactly this. I recently bought the Tonal Gym through affirm, it was 0% over 4 years. I paid it off in 6 months and was able to enjoy the machine earlier than expected at no added cost.
I think manufacturers would be smart to start offering buy now pay later options due to the high costs. I think it’s dangerous for the consumer but the prices are getting too high for most people to afford.
The way manufacturers are currently rolling, your loan will already be paid off before your NIB pin arrives. 
Quoted from AFM95:The way manufacturers are currently rolling, your loan will already be paid off before your NIB pin arrives.
Sadly…very true, especially if you’re buying CGC
Quoted from Geeterman1:Exactly this. I recently bought the Tonal Gym through affirm, it was 0% over 4 years. I paid it off in 6 months and was able to enjoy the machine earlier than expected at no added cost.
I think manufacturers would be smart to start offering buy now pay later options due to the high costs. I think it’s dangerous for the consumer but the prices are getting too high for most people to afford.
Actually I think this would bite the manufacturers given all the issues coming off the line. There would be incentive to actually have to address them or risk them defaulting and sending them back.
Quoted from Geeterman1:Exactly this. I recently bought the Tonal Gym through affirm, it was 0% over 4 years. I paid it off in 6 months and was able to enjoy the machine earlier than expected at no added cost.
I think manufacturers would be smart to start offering buy now pay later options due to the high costs. I think it’s dangerous for the consumer but the prices are getting too high for most people to afford.
The last sentence sums it all up.
I don’t think it’s wise to finance toys. I don’t care if the interest rate is zero. Which it’s not because it’s built into the price and the 3rd party financing company is making $$$. Maybe a producer incentive hit to their margins.
Maybe im old school but if you can’t afford to pay cash for a toy/collectible I wouldn’t be buying it.
Then there is YOLO 
I have a little knowledge on this subject. I had a retail store selling arcade games, pins, and general game room stuff. Opened in the 90s and we were constantly approached by these lending companies. It's the same financial companies that a lot of used car dealers, furniture stores, and appliance stores use. I never used them because my conscience would not let me sell a few thousand dollars in games to somebody who would need to use a predatory lender to pay for it. They way it would have worked is I get paid they handle the collection part. When I was younger and just starting out we got a furniture set on payments. Doing the math we realized the payments were lower then what was needed to pay off the loan at the end of 3 years of 0%. The fine print says if you don't pay off the balance in the 3 years it automatically adds all 3 years of interest on to the payoff. Real scumbag stuff.
If demand slows you will see credit and leasing programs. Until then, why would a manufacturer or distributor take the risk on limited supply when you have a line of people willing to fork over straight cash?
I like to use a credit card for NIB pinball purchases to gain airline miles for my next vacation. Use the credit card and pay it off in full the next month. As long as there is no cc fee from the seller, it’s a win win for me. Otherwise, no, I would not want to finance a purchase like this unless it had a 18 or 24 month interest free promotion and I knew I could pay it off in that time period.
Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:I think it's funny some pinball people are telling you that it's a bad idea to finance it because it's a toy. It's not something I personally would do or have done.... But..
People finance boats and their useless corvettes all the time. I don't really see a difference.
I mean, ^^^ this is true
Boats, jet skis, tv, campers, corvette’s etc, all luxury items. Pinball fits the definition, so what’s the difference
Agree, they don't need to if folks are lining up to pay cash. Also, fundamentally, I don't think there is enough volume to make it worth a small distributor's time unless through a 3rd party like synchrony... that said, welcome to ABT.
12 months no interest... but remember, if you don't pay off the entire balance by that date, all that interest from day 1 gets tacked right on top and now at a crazy high rate to boot.
Quoted from GregCon:You'd be better off selling one of your livers on the black market to by a pin than borrowing money.
I’m down with that. Sell one liver, keep the other two. Hold back a couple of kidneys too for March Madness 2024 if you’re short of cash.
Quoted from freeplay3:I have a little knowledge on this subject. I had a retail store selling arcade games, pins, and general game room stuff. Opened in the 90s and we were constantly approached by these lending companies. It's the same financial companies that a lot of used car dealers, furniture stores, and appliance stores use. I never used them because my conscience would not let me sell a few thousand dollars in games to somebody who would need to use a predatory lender to pay for it. They way it would have worked is I get paid they handle the collection part. When I was younger and just starting out we got a furniture set on payments. Doing the math we realized the payments were lower then what was needed to pay off the loan at the end of 3 years of 0%. The fine print says if you don't pay off the balance in the 3 years it automatically adds all 3 years of interest on to the payoff. Real scumbag stuff.
Furniture stores were notorious for this.
Quoted from spinout:Agree, they don't need to if folks are lining up to pay cash. Also, fundamentally, I don't think there is enough volume to make it worth a small distributor's time unless through a 3rd party like synchrony... that said, welcome to ABT.
https://www.abt.com/resources/pages/search.php?keywords=pinball&resultsPerPage=20&totalNumResults=43&start_index=0&page=1&sort=&category%5B%5D=Pinball%20Machines
12 months no interest... but remember, if you don't pay off the entire balance by that date, all that interest from day 1 gets tacked right on top and now at a crazy high rate to boot.
https://www.mysynchrony.com/payment-calculator/abt/
I’ve never heard of ABT before. Has anyone ordered from them? Curious as to what the experience is like.
Quoted from Wmsfan-GAP:These are luxury goods like cars.
.... and cargument makes a comeback
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