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(Topic ID: 23851)

Finally ... Tilt: The Battle to Save Pinball


By pinster68

8 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 50 posts
  • 29 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by Don1
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 8 years ago

    Finally available on iTunes!

    $2.99 to rent, $9.99 to own.

    All in!

    #2 8 years ago

    Watched it yesterday. I liked it. It was neat to see where pinball was at the time. My thought though is if RFM was a total success and the next generation of pins, why haven't they become the holy grail pin. The film made it seem as though they had figured out the next evolution in pinball and Williams let it die. But if the platform was the savior it didn't seem to make a long term impression.

    #3 8 years ago

    It really seemed like SWEP1 was the axe that killed it all. The circumstances all lined up for a perfect storm. One more pin2k, like Wizard Blocks could have turned it all around.

    A damn shame, but I'm optimistic with JJP, Planetary Pinball, JPop, Pat Lawlor's return with video pinball, and Stern's persistence. Let the naysayers gripe about petty issues, pinball continues to live on strong.

    #4 8 years ago

    At the time they closed, Gary Stern makes some really interesting observations. Various pubs from that time will have some of it if interested.

    Most of those guys from Willimas are in pinball now. Brain trust = saved. It is thirteen years later. If you could predict your business thirteen years into the future, well you would be very successful. Given that no one could see thirteen years ahead in 1999 it is great to see that the rockstars are still around.

    #5 8 years ago

    I am of the belief after researching as much as I can about this subject, that WMS had no intentions of keeping pinball alive once they had all the lawsuits/patents lined up for slots/gaming. It just didn't make sense business-wise as they were beholden to their stockholders. Wizard Blocks in my mind would have been the game that cemented the platform, so there was no way it could have seen completion and still suit their business needs. Tilt is an amazing doc and story and it is one of the major reasons I fell in love with pinball. I look at Pin2k and see the potential, as opposed to others who just crap over it due to the limitations that the designers had to contend with. A start contrast from today's games which are seemingly frozen in time from games made in the 90's, I appreciate the effort and execution, especially in the limited development time.

    #6 8 years ago

    Too bad swe1 was such a donkey (thanks to g lucas), what were they thinking putting jarjar in it?

    #7 8 years ago
    Quoted from centerflank:

    Too bad swe1 was such a donkey (thanks to g lucas), what were they thinking putting jarjar in it?

    Kids. Think what you want of E1, but Lucas has done a brilliant job keeping SW relevant for new generations of fans.

    #8 8 years ago
    Quoted from alveolus:

    Kids. Think what you want of E1, but Lucas has done a brilliant job keeping SW relevant for new generations of fans.

    I here Lucas is about to redo episode 4-6 and cgi'ing jarjar in and removing chewy

    #9 8 years ago

    Wizard blocks looks freaking awesome!

    #10 8 years ago
    Quoted from centerflank:

    here Lucas is about to redo episode 4-6 and cgi'ing jarjar in and removing chewy

    Too funny

    #11 8 years ago
    Quoted from northvibe:

    Wizard Blocks looks freaking awesome!

    And the next slated title was suppose to be Playboy, now that could have been pretty awesome Too bad P2K never got past the first two titles, I think the platform had promise and technology would have surely pushed it much further.

    #12 8 years ago
    Quoted from Pin_Crazed:

    And the next slated title was suppose to be Playboy, now that could have been pretty awesome Too bad P2K never got past the first two titles, I think the platform had promise and technology would have surely pushed it much further.

    I didn't even know about wizard blocks. Just watched a YouTube video of it. Looked awesome. I've played swe1 and rfm. Like both games. Except rfm could of used better graphics, looked like ms paint on some things. I actually enjoyed playing them. So no one has found a way to get a rom or recreate wizard blocks?

    #13 8 years ago

    I

    Quoted from Pin_Crazed:Too bad P2K never got past the first two titles

    I agree, I know many pinballers didnt like the platform but it was so unique and well designed.Too bad gomez or whomever didnt start a side business developing more titles for it....

    #14 8 years ago

    I'm a big fan of this film. Its well done ad Gomez is a captivating storyteller. I don't care for Pin 2K. The games all seem the same to me (pinball with video). I switched specifically from vids to pins because I like the more mechanical aspect of the ball moving around etc. I'm not all that excited about the WOZ monitor either. I really wish the whole JJP process had been filmed. It would make a nice story. One thing is sure, the entire Pin 2K story and the debate it provokes is a good one.

    #15 8 years ago
    Quoted from centerflank:

    I here Lucas is about to redo episode 4-6 and cgi'ing jarjar in and removing chewy

    http://www.metalsucks.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Beavis_and_Butthead_horror.png

    #16 8 years ago
    Quoted from centerflank:

    I here Lucas is about to redo episode 4-6 and cgi'ing jarjar in and removing chewy

    That better not be true. Besides, Chewie is more popular than Jar-Jar.

    #17 8 years ago

    The writing was on the wall at Williams - what was missing was a passion for pinball at the BOD/Exec. Leadership positions. Gary has made it work all these years, and he could go into other venues with higher margins and returns.

    Tilt is depressing as hell for me.

    #18 8 years ago

    This thread pushed me to buy Tilt, and the most surprising, and sad moment was when they said that Williams didn't even make an attempt to sell the division. No, they basically boned all of these people. Granted by the end of it all, they (employees) were stressed more than anything. Also sad to hear how the people were once regarded in high esteem, but by the end were not.

    Depressing, but I found a deep appreciation for those who were, and still are passionate about pinball.

    #19 8 years ago

    This may be the elephant in the room, but why was JPop not interviewed for this documentary?

    #20 8 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    This may be the elephant in the room, but why was JPop not interviewed for this documentary?

    Its a big giant F U. No i dunno really. He was never given his credit either.

    #21 8 years ago
    Quoted from AkumaZeto:

    Its a big giant F U. No i dunno really. He was never given his credit either.

    Surely Greg Maletic can answer, he has posted here about Tilt before. I would prefer to think that Jpop declined to be a part of it. I wouldn't think that he would just leave him out, I mean they did have the other members of the team for comment. Tilt is really Gomez' show, so maybe Jpop's view of the whole thing would have went against the story they were tying to tell as George was definitely displeased with how the game turned out at the time. I HIGHLY recommend that everyone listen to the conversation between Maletic, Duncan Brown, Cameron Silver, and Roger Sharpe, that is on Tilt. Lots of good info about Williams back in the day including Duncan totally dogging No Fear( no flow in a Steve Ritchie game?), some really great stuff.

    #22 8 years ago
    Quoted from centerflank:

    I here Lucas is about to redo episode 4-6 and cgi'ing jarjar in and removing chewy

    Might as well. He's doing his damnedest to f**k up the originals too. Only one that is still left awesome is ESB. he's managed to ruin everything else.

    Post edited by SealClubber : Language

    #23 8 years ago

    The best thing that could happen to Star Wars is for Lucas to DIE. So he cant mess it up anymore. Pretty soon you will see something like ORGINAL CUT BLURAY 300 usd. I digress sorry fellas

    #24 8 years ago

    NO disrespect at all intended but I bought this like 9 months ago on Itunes.

    #25 8 years ago
    Quoted from eggbert52:

    NO disrespect at all intended but I bought this like 9 months ago on Itunes.

    None taken. While I'm not sure it was 9 months, I think then you could only buy it but not rent ... or the other way around. Or maybe I just missed it. Regardless I don't care, I love pinball AND I'm an Apple stockholder - so its a WIN-WIN either way.

    #26 8 years ago

    I rented it a few days ago on the back of a thread last week about pinball docos.

    I much preferred Special When Lit. I understand that Tilt had a story to tell and is more coherent than SWL but it wasn't near as funny and interesting and captivating. Watching SWL shortly after getting back into pinball really cemented how much I love it.

    #27 8 years ago

    Enjoyed the movie also, though it seemed like the point of the movie was that pinball was going to die if it didn't somehow adapt to the changing market. Ultimately it couldn't adapt and didn't survive. Looking at pricing today it is clear that pinball does not live by the same business model as it did when there where more operators and not so many home users. My hope is that Stern doesn't forget the lessons learned in the recent economic bubble, and that they are setting aside the profits during this recent bubble so they can make it through any future downturns.

    #28 8 years ago

    Special when lit kinda takes the piss out of Pinball and tends to make fun of it.... Although I really liked the film I do not think that it did any favors for people that are not aware of pinball...

    #29 8 years ago
    Quoted from RGR:

    Special when lit kinda takes the piss out of Pinball and tends to make fun of it.... Although I really liked the film I do not think that it did any favors for people that are not aware of pinball...

    I didn't get that impression at all. It showed the character and eccentric side of it. That made pinball seem more enjoyable and loveable to me.

    #30 8 years ago

    Well being eccentric would mean that it would be given the title of minority which is the point I am trying to make. Sure it was a good film however attracting the masses.... well no...

    #31 8 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    This may be the elephant in the room, but why was JPop not interviewed for this documentary?

    I always wondered why the only 2 people that were still in the industry at the time (myself and Dwight Sullivan) weren't either. Dwight especially since he had been around longer than every programmer other than Larry.

    Quoted from accidental:

    I didn't get that impression at all. It showed the character and eccentric side of it. That made pinball seem more enjoyable and loveable to me.

    That's a pretty good take on it. I casually know or have met almost every person in that movie, and I don't think anyone was exploited or cast unfairly. I viewed every person exactly as I knew them.

    SWL also has a totally amazing opening credit sequence. It's almost worth getting just for that.

    #32 8 years ago

    you like special over tilt? I thought Special was a terrible movie and was just out to exploit the pinball community. Tilt is a touching documentary, I thought was well done.

    #33 8 years ago

    I wonder if anyone featured in SWL felt exploited.

    I personally enjoyed it enough to watch it twice, then buy a copy.

    I'm thinking people like Pingeek know they're a geek. They don't need a film to come to that realization. Each one of the guys featured probably feels pretty good to have played a part. I would.

    There's an abundance of people in this hobby that truly think they're cool. But a long, hard look in the mirror will tell them otherwise.

    #34 8 years ago

    This page has been around it seems for ions but a good read none the less

    http://www.pinball2000.de/new_making_of_pin2000.htm

    #35 8 years ago
    Quoted from pinster68:

    But a long, hard look in the mirror will tell them otherwise.

    I am pretty sure that just a look in the mirror would do the trick!

    #36 8 years ago
    Quoted from AkumaZeto:

    This page has been around it seems for ions but a good read none the less
    http://www.pinball2000.de/new_making_of_pin2000.htm

    Is the full video of George's seminar up anywhere? I know they showed some clips from it in Tilt.

    #37 8 years ago
    Quoted from pinball_keefer:

    SWL also has a totally amazing opening credit sequence. It's almost worth getting just for that.

    I agree. I asked my wife to watch the credits because it is so visually creative. My wife, who is a graphic designer, is not a huge fan of pinball like me, but she loved the opening sequence.

    #38 8 years ago

    I remember waiting for SWE1 to come out. I was super excited Liam Neeson is a great actor after watching trainspotting I thought the same about Ewan Mcgregor and Darth maul looked incredible. Then I actual saw the movie... How can a CGI character and 1 little kid ruin a whole movie? I'll tell ya how by being the focal point of the film. Man they sucked balls. So I can see how Bally thought they had a winner with SWE1 before they actually were able to watch the movie. Can't believe Lucas destroyed a movie and a pinball title at the same time. Now that's talent!!

    #39 8 years ago

    because they wern't the only aspects that destroyed the movie. The dialogue and lack of character depth destroyed the movie. Bascially how the entire thing was written and directed. There were talented actors in that cast, and most came off 2 dimensional because of the way lucas directs. He's so concerned about info being leaked, he restricts the actors so much from script knowledge, that they have hardly anything to work with. So much to the point, where they can't do their job. Plus he gives no leway for freestyling. He's a shitty director. Plain and simple. Has no clue on how real people interact with on another.

    #40 8 years ago
    Quoted from CookyJar:

    Is the full video of George's seminar up anywhere? I know they showed some clips from it in Tilt.

    The whole seminar is on the extras disc. Pretty cool Q&A portion after the speech where Lawlor steps up and talks about pinball being a strictly commercial product....how things have changed lol..

    #41 8 years ago
    Quoted from pinball_keefer:

    I always wondered why the only 2 people that were still in the industry at the time (myself and Dwight Sullivan) weren't either. Dwight especially since he had been around longer than every programmer other than Larry.

    Pretty disappointing!

    For all the positive reviews that TILT gets, I was pretty disappointed because of the glaring omissions in terms of who they failed to interview for the film.

    #42 8 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    because they wern't the only aspects that destroyed the movie. The dialogue and lack of character depth destroyed the movie. Bascially how the entire thing was written and directed. There were talented actors in that cast, and most came off 2 dimensional because of the way lucas directs. He's so concerned about info being leaked, he restricts the actors so much from script knowledge, that they have hardly anything to work with. So much to the point, where they can't do their job. Plus he gives no leway for freestyling. He's a shitty director. Plain and simple. Has no clue on how real people interact with on another.

    I agree with you but I don't understand how he can produce a new hope and empire then fall off the way he did! Empire was his greatest work. Maybe he blew his load on that one and didn't care what he made afterwards?

    #43 8 years ago
    Quoted from pinster68:

    I wonder if anyone featured in SWL felt exploited.

    I have several very good friends featured in that movie, three of which have large segments, and we just laugh about it every time we watch it. I think you have to go into it with a sense of humor. If it were about the serious side of playing pinball, or collecting, it would be one boring movie.
    I've watched SWL with many people not in the pinball world and they all loved it. It was meant to be humorous and entertaining, and I think it was.

    #44 8 years ago
    Quoted from Jerel63:

    I agree with you but I don't understand how he can produce a new hope and empire then fall off the way he did! Empire was his greatest work. Maybe he blew his load on that one and didn't care what he made afterwards?

    because he didn't direct ESB, ROTJ was awesome too..again, because he didn't direct it. He's a shitty director. Cares too much on special effects and nothing on character development. He has stated himself, he doesn't like working with actors. And it shows. He doesn't know how regular people interact. Been boarded up in ILM so long, he lost touch on how humans interact. ESB was awesome because of Ivan Kershner. Which Lucas wanted him to do ep1, 2 and 3, but he turned it down. Probably after reading the weak script and shitty dialogue.

    #45 8 years ago
    Quoted from PinballShawn:

    I have several very good friends featured in that movie, three of which have large segments, and we just laugh about it every time we watch it. I think you have to go into it with a sense of humor. If it were about the serious side of playing pinball, or collecting, it would be one boring movie.
    I've watched SWL with many people not in the pinball world and they all loved it. It was meant to be humorous and entertaining, and I think it was.

    GREAT to hear. I'd hate to think anyone featured in it would have any regrets. I think they all did fantastic.

    Brian

    #46 8 years ago
    Quoted from pinster68:

    GREAT to hear. I'd hate to think anyone featured in it would have any regrets.

    Same. When I first watched the movie, I felt like those guys were being exploited. Almost like a pinball Jerry Springer.

    Glad to hear that they don't regret it.

    #47 8 years ago
    Quoted from PinballShawn:

    I have several very good friends featured in that movie, three of which have large segments, and we just laugh about it every time we watch it. I think you have to go into it with a sense of humor. If it were about the serious side of playing pinball, or collecting, it would be one boring movie.
    I've watched SWL with many people not in the pinball world and they all loved it. It was meant to be humorous and entertaining, and I think it was.

    Who? Koi?

    I want to be friends with all of them!

    2 weeks later
    #48 8 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    This may be the elephant in the room, but why was JPop not interviewed for this documentary?

    I asked John Popadiuk on several occasions to be a part of the film, but he didn't want to be involved. Which I always thought was unfortunate, though I feel like Duncan Brown and Cameron Silver did a great job carrying the torch for the SWE1 team.

    #49 8 years ago
    Quoted from pinball_keefer:

    I always wondered why the only 2 people that were still in the industry at the time (myself and Dwight Sullivan) weren't either. Dwight especially since he had been around longer than every programmer other than Larry.

    It's been so long now that I can't recall exactly how I figured out who made it into the film. I can tell you that I wasn't particularly picky; anyone that wanted to be interviewed (who was on the P2K team) would certainly have been interviewed. Also, several folks I approached—including the aforementioned John Popadiuk—turned me down.

    I got my initial list of interviewees from Greg Dunlap, former Williams employee, who was working on a P2K project as well. From there, I contacted those folks, asked them who else I should speak with. When I felt I had representatives from every aspect of development—concept, hardware, software, OS software, game design, etc.—I felt like I had it reasonably covered. I never doubted that I was leaving someone great out; there's just only so much time to keep on pursuing new interviews until it's time to start telling the story.

    I apologize to anyone who felt left out!

    #50 8 years ago

    Are you planning to do another pinball related film involving Stern and the new start ups? Something about the latest resurgence of pinball as a follow up to Tilt?

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