Couldn't have done them without your help Mark, thanks! And, yes, I also make them as a direct replacement for the purists out there who enjoy the challenge of ball hops $20 a pair for either my enhanced model or oem style. Man, I gotta get all my new frames up on the site. Just so little time these days!

Bumping this thread, someone just linked me to it, and it's very interesting. Have to ponder if I want to change my FG guides or not now!

I just ordered mine and should get them today. My FG has serious bounce too...

Me too... but I've always wondered on mine if the poor alignment is due to the stand offs cutting into the playfield... hence making their location difficult to adjust. would like to try these, but would need to permanently alter the originals too. Choices.. choices..

By order, I assume stopped by and had a beer

I sure do miss being able to do that, in the name of 'work'.

That slacker mailed them to me before I could pick them up!

I got them installed. They are perfect and I no longer have any bounce! Thanks Cliffy!

Anyone have a better FG apron available?

Rob Bell
Robsgameroom.com

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EDIT: Derp, check the site first dummy.

I ordered a pair the other day myself.

These do wear out so it's cool someone decided to cut replacements. I've had some beater machines with guides so worn that there is a huge burr on the edge where the ball rode on them. I never really have a problem with ball hop though when they are properly adjusted and not worn-out (at least on EBD).

I don't understand the four pictures though?

The first picture says it's "New old Stock" and it looks like they are supposed to look.

The second picture looks like a homemade one with a big gap between it and the flipper but it says "even worse when the old ones have worn out and aren't available"?

Then the third picture looks like a homemade one that closely resembles a factory part dimensionally with the correct gap and it also looks like it has less of a mismatch (or hop as the OP refers to it) where the ball rolls down it.

Then the fourth picture has another home made looking one with a huge gap between it and the flipper but less of a mismatch.

If I were to buy one of the three repop parts shown, I would definitely pic the one shown in the third pic. Why would anyone want the other two with the huge gap between the guide and the flipper?

But to get to the real issue with these.

The ball isn't supposed to ride on the metal part at all really. It is supposed to ride on the plastic part.

I would think someone would want whichever one eliminated the ball hop. The pics confused me too, but pretty sure 3 and 4 are cliffy. All I know is that these are amazing and since they are under the the top rail, can't even tell they are there. Think they look great and play even better.

To get to the real issue with these.

On EBD the ball isn't supposed to ride on the metal part at all really. It is supposed to ride on the plastic part underneath. Bally designed the assembly that way so the ball didn't get scratched by the edge of the stainless. When you see the stainless guides that are worn or have a ball hop issue, it is because of the plastic part either being worn or out of alignment - not because of the stainless part. If the ball is riding on the stainless, your plastic part needs addressed.

FG didn't have the lower lane plastic like EBD does.

These are metal replacements to a plastic part. In the case of EBD, there is a metal top guide, some spacers, then you install the bottom guide (stock plastic or cliffy metal) that the ball touches. Not sure how the guides work on FG. Why is it an issue if the ball rolls along a metal guide instead of plastic?

Actually, I don't think EBD has the lower plastic lane guide either...

Mine does. I just put the cliffy right on top of it.

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Yeah I guess you're right about Flash. I think it was a bad design on Bally's part. EBD doesn't have the issue. The metal guide sits higher up.

EBD all had the lower plastic guide on all three versions and two spacers. The ball doesn't touch the metal guide.

Mine definitely had the issue and these cliffys fixed it.

That's because your plastic parts were either shot or misaligned. If you would have replaced them with nice new plastic guides underneath your problem would not only have been eliminated, the machine would still look like it' supposed to look. Now all you have is a stainless steel edge wearing your balls out and blocking the illumination.

They were definitely shot. Didn't know there were replacements in plastic, but you are right that would've fixed the problem too. I have yet to see any adverse effects to the ball from these rails. Time will tell. Taking this to a show in September. I'll let you know after a whole weekend of getting beat up.

If you notice on a lot of old machines out there, the owners flipped the two parts around and put the metal guides below the plastic one. You'll see a lot of them like that. They did that for two reasons. One was because the plastic part was worn to the point it created the "hop" and also because the lamps underneath tended to melt the plastic guides over time.

The real "fix" was to simply replace the plastic parts with new ones but you know how things go " in the field". Whatever makes it playable.

Seriously though, over the long run you don't want the metal edge wearing on the ball if you can help it. Stainless steel is hard and will scratch the ball. I've seen the guides with huge burrs on them from ball wear. That takes a while to happen though.

I like the fact that these have been reproduced though. I would only use them with the plastic piece underneath though on EBD.

Thanks for the heads up. I tend to replace the pinball pretty regularly so I doubt I see any of this wear. Basically no shot of ever seeing a dull pinball in one of my games.

I wish I would have kept some of the worn stainless guides I've had over the years. You'd laugh. Some of them had the metal edge worn down so far with huge burrs on them they must have had a million plays. These were from machines with playfields worn down to the bare wood though and the metal guide in the wrong position.

Here's how they are used on EBD. Notice the ball rides totally on the lower plastic guide so it doesn't get scratched. The stainless part is meant to only be a "garnish" for cosmetic purpose.

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I'm currently working on an EBD. My plastic piece that is referenced in a few posts above is broken in half. Does anyone sell a plastic repro that i can use or is my only option to use a metal cliffy?

You can also make your own if you want to. Before all these reproduction parts were available I would go buy a piece of Lexan and use the stainless uppers as a template. Then cut the Lexan on a jig saw. Pretty-easy to do really but now days you can buy them ready-made from various parts suppliers.

These Cliffy are good replacements for the top stainless garnish on EBD though. They were previously unavailable so there is definitely a market for them.

Here are some: http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=BAA&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GS-EBD-M1330-189CLR-2