(Topic ID: 251634)

Feds Seek Ban on Flavored Vape Liquid/Cigarettes fine

By tbutler6

4 years ago


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    #110 4 years ago

    This is all about the US government losing money to the vaping industry. From what I have read, the deaths are being caused from Vitamin E found in THC cartridges. But the government wants to lump ejuices into the mix. Vitamin E is not found in Ejuice and doesnt make sense to do that either. The Vitamin E in THC is used as a thickener essentially to "cut" the THC Oil.

    Its a strange scenario to just ban everything. When there is a recall on beef for salmonella, they dont go pulling the beef of every company off the shelves...

    The biggest problem is you have people making decision with no knowledge of the products. A lot of talk out and about shows that as well...

    #114 4 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I have been hearing a little bit about this. I can't verify it. But what I hear is that these Juul vapes use a replaceable juice pod. And counterfeiters are making THC pods with Vitamin E oil as the carrier. And as the carrier oil cools off in your lungs it coats them with oil and you can't breathe.
    As stated, I cannot verify this, but sounds plausible. I know several many people who have been vaping for several years without issue. So, a lot of this sounds like the govt. trying to control the revenue and taxes. Sort like online gambling, I suppose.

    I know a lot of people who vape and have vaped for a long time. It should strike anyone odd that these have been out for like a decade now, and all at once, literally, people are getting the same illnesses at the same time. Doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that its something with the current batch of whatever.. Also, there are like 10 million+ people that vape but only an extremely small handful (455 people or so) are having this problem.

    Time to use our heads and connect the dots.

    #142 4 years ago

    The problem is, you dont go around just banning stuff. People should be allowed to make their own choices. You can educate and send out warnings all you want but at the end of the day, people should be allowed to do what they want.

    Not much freedom when your government is telling you that you constantly cant do this and that.

    #144 4 years ago
    Quoted from Pachill:

    It's Been Banned over here on temporarily

    Yea and its ridiculous.

    #147 4 years ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    A lot of money will be made on the black market there lol.
    But since possession is not banned, the ban will have little effect with online sales available.
    Definitely prohibitionist political posturing there.
    Historically, prohibition is a very bad thing.
    Those involved should be driven out of office.

    Agreed.

    #155 4 years ago
    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    Let's all agree, cigarettes are terrible, vaping is terrible, the fact that laws aren't treating them equally does not change the facts about their health effects.
    This sounds like the guns being mad that knives also can kill you and the poor guns are being treated unfairly, meanwhile, still dead.

    There still isnt evidence that vaping is "terrible". There needs to be some clear evidence of that and there still is not.

    #159 4 years ago
    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    slightly bad, somewhat unhealthy...you can choose the adjective. Being a proactive, positive advocate for it is just way out there in my opinion.
    Just be aggressive with keeping this away from kids--whatever form that takes(laws, bans, whatever), the numbers tell us that it's already a huge problem with kids and growing. I am against that.

    Sure, I dont think inhaling anything is going to be good for you.

    And yes, that is the question, how are the kids getting them. But kids have always smoked as well it seems. The shift is just to vapes from cigarettes it seems.

    #162 4 years ago

    In almost all cases, they explode due to modifications or not aligning the correct equipment for power ratings.

    #188 4 years ago

    Just saw this on the news. Looks like they are cracking down on the sources. For those who vape THC, read the chart at the bottom..

    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/vaping/tests-show-bootleg-marijuana-vapes-tainted-hydrogen-cyanide-n1059356?cid=eml_nbn_20190927

    #191 4 years ago
    Quoted from Djshakes:

    This is helpful. It pretty much proves bootleg crap is the cause. When you go to a legal dispensary all the boxes show the lab test and every ingredient on the back. Live resin is the way to go. Barely any additives.

    Some of these are in legal dispensaries. Just be careful.

    #192 4 years ago
    Quoted from Djshakes:

    This is helpful. It pretty much proves bootleg crap is the cause. When you go to a legal dispensary all the boxes show the lab test and every ingredient on the back. Live resin is the way to go. Barely any additives.

    With live resins, do they work like wax?

    #194 4 years ago
    Quoted from Djshakes:

    No, look just like a typical cartridge. They use the term "full spectrum" for Live resin also. Raw Gardens is a great brand. Chemistry is another brand (pic related). Eventually all the companies will move to live resin is my guess. The back of the packaging has all the lab results and even the terpenes. They are getting pretty sophisticated and it would be a shame to throw it all away.[quoted image]

    Oh wow, I havent seen those. Funny enough, a buddy of mine was going to get me some THC carts and after all the recent news, I decided to pass. He asked if I wanted live resins instead and I wasnt familiar with them...

    Thanks for the info, thats very interesting.

    #198 4 years ago
    Quoted from Djshakes:

    A lot of the companies you can scan the QR on the box with your phone and it gives you all the lab tests.
    Comparing the street crap with the legal modern stuff is like saying we should ban cars like a high tuned Mercedes because billy bob built a hot rod on a tractor frame and killed himself.

    Oh I completely agree.

    2 weeks later
    #208 4 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    I haven't researched it, but anyone know what percentage of vape sales are made by tobacco-affiliated subsidiaries? I would guess it's a lot, they've been preparing for this for many years and know how to market these products.
    And 100% agree with everyone here that banning vaping is massive overkill, makes zero sense in a world where conventional cigarette and alcohol sales are still permitted. I do support banning grape flavored unicorn mist and all that other crap that's blatantly targeted to children. The UK approach of severe marketing restrictions to keep it is a cessation aid instead of a new novelty seems sound to me, might be a bit harder here due to the First Amendment but cigarette advertising is heavily regulated so no logical reason the same couldn't apply to vapes.

    To my knowledge, the only vape company owned by the government is Juul. And that is why you only see "flavored" ejuices being targeted. It really makes no sense. Why ban only flavored vapes. If people are dying from something and it hasnt been linked to a flavor.... The answer is that the government is using these illnesses to push their agenda, as always.

    #210 4 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    Do you have a link for this claim? Because the rest of your post leaves me confused.
    Lemme see. The government owns Juul. Juul seems to be the king in selling flavored vapes. And therefore the government is trying to ban itself from selling flavored vapes. Please tell how this works.

    If all the other vape companies cannot sell their flavored vapes, that leaves Juul the king of tobacco flavored vaping. I was not aware that Juul was big on the scene for its flavored pods..

    #212 4 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I'm sorry. Let's do one thing at a time.
    You made the claim that Juul is owned by the government. Can you back that claim up with any kind of link? Or are you just BS'n ?

    Oh sorry, they own 37%. I bet that number grows.

    #213 4 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:I'm sorry. Let's do one thing at a time.
    You made the claim that Juul is owned by the government. Can you back that claim up with any kind of link? Or are you just BS'n ?

    I do assume you realize that Altria is Phillip Morris..

    #215 4 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I do. Your assumption is correct.
    So, are you going to stand by your statement that, "the only vape company owned by the government is Juul." ? Or did you by chance mis-speak?

    Is it not true? Are more owned by the goverment?

    #218 4 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    I think he’s asking what’s your basis for saying the government owns 37% of Phillip Morris/Altria/Juul. I’m curious as well.

    Its said in the link he provided by CNN..

    #220 4 years ago
    Quoted from Oaken:

    I wasn’t aware that the government had a majority stake (or any stake for that matter) in either Juul or Altria (Phillip Morris) or any of the other investment groups associated with either company.
    Could you please link me to that info. I am very curious.
    I also think this is the point the other poster was trying to make.

    It was in the link given by cottonm4

    #221 4 years ago
    Quoted from robotron911:

    This is a seriously ignorant statement. There are chest imaging series done comparing smokers and habitual vapers. The two groups are virtually indistinguishable. Additionally, you are inhaling heavy metals in trace amounts, as the heating elements in these degrade. Where do you think the small bits of the heating elements go? The vaping companies cannot/have not disclosed everything that is chemically in vape.
    Oh, and let’s not forget vaping is backed by Big Tobacco which has a century plus history of lying about the health hazards of actual smoking all while trying to make their product more addictive.
    For those who want to add Cannabis to the argument... do you know how that was grown? What pesticides or fertilizers were used and are now being aerosolized into your lungs?
    Stupid monkeys.

    Sorry, but your information is incorrect. That might have been found in a product or two but not for everything. And the metal stuff was from manufacturing, not due to heating. You cant just lump all products under that statement by any means.

    Also, there have been no reports that I have seen showing vaping is as bad as smoking like you mention.

    #224 4 years ago
    Quoted from Oaken:

    I read that article. I don’t see the part where the government owns either company.

    Altria is Phillip Morris.

    #225 4 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    No it doesn’t. The CNN article says Altria owns 35% of Juul. Nothing in there about the government owning any of these companies.

    Lol, do some homework. Altria is Phillip Morris.

    #228 4 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    What the hell are we talking about here? I asked why you think the government owns Phillip Morris. You said go read the article. I did, and it says nothing about the government owning any of these companies.

    Are you not aware that all these years Philip Morris is a government controlled company??

    #229 4 years ago
    Quoted from Oaken:

    And Altria = government is your point?

    Pretty much yes.

    #231 4 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Source please.

    Oh lordy. I dont have time for all that. I thought this was a well known thing. I guess not.

    #234 4 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Did you hear it from a guy on the internet? If so, I’ve got some bad news for you ...

    No, ive heard it for the past 40 years. Since Phillip Morris pays so much to the government...

    #236 4 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Ok, so this whole “ownership” thing was either a sarcastic comment on taxation/regulation of the tobacco industry, or a wild expansion of the (true) point that after the tobacco settlements in the 1990s, the States ended up with a strong financial interest in the tobacco companies survival (because annual payments were to be made over several decades). But it’s a big leap from there to the US (or the States) “owning” PM or Altria, or having a vested interest in their survival vs other companies.

    The government has always had an interest in Phillip Morris due to how much money they get from them.

    #238 4 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Sure, through cigarette taxes. But the same is true of any tobacco company (and to some extent of any company at all, since they’re all at least supposed to pay taxes here). I don’t see how that would make the government biased in favor of one particular tobacco company vs the others that pay the same taxes.
    Key thing to me is “indirect financial interest” vs “37% ownership” (which would be super surprising since it’s either rare or unheard of for the US to hold shares in companies due to the insane conflict of interest that would create).

    Its more than just taxes. They contribute a ton to political interests as well.

    #240 4 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Campaign contributions? Again I’m sure they do, and no doubt that has hugely impacted how tobacco gets regulated (or doesn’t get regulated, at least compared to other countries) in the US. But the same is true of most other huge companies, they’re all in there lobbying away. So I’m not sure that makes Altria’s relationship with the government unique.

    Good point. But in regards to the tobacco industry, Phillip Morris is the one that seems to be brought up a good amount in the past specifically with this.

    #243 4 years ago
    Quoted from Dent00:

    Based on information that I have seen, the people getting sick vaping are using eliquid purchased on the street that contain THC (illegal in many states) and some other nasty stuff, with no idea what is in the liquid and it is probably completely illegal. After they get sick, they don't want to admit that they are using illegal substances, so no one in the government can put their finger on the actual problem. So vaping just gets blamed as a general rule. I agree that teenagers should not be allowed to vape, just like they are not legally allowed to smoke. However, a ban on vaping products will probably only force teenagers to purchase more of the street products that were illegal in the first place. This whole argument reminds me of the ban on guns. It is the illegal people that use guns to harm others. They could easily use some other lethal force object or substance to harm others if they are not allowed to legally purchase a gun.

    Exactly.

    #247 4 years ago
    Quoted from robotron911:

    My information is 100% accurate. I work in the biotech/pharma industry. SKB has a smoking cessation product. Part of their product research is looking at use in patients using any nicotine substance - i.e. vaping. Baseline chest X-rays and CTs are done to see what, if any, effect (improvement) may coincide with nicotine-replacement. The baseline chest images are startlingly similar for vaping and smoking.
    And you honestly believe that the extremely fine wire filaments in the device don’t degrade over time with constant cycling of heat and cooling? That would run contrary to literally EVERYTHING they teach about the physical properties of metals.
    You have your right to blindly defend something that you have no long term information on and is provided by a manufacturing base with a long, documented history of fraudulent, deceptive practices. I have the right not to want to foot the bill for your behavior when it likely results in negative consequences.

    Show your sources. Because what you are saying doesnt seem correct. From what I have read about the metals, the amount of ejuice one would need to consume to meet the levels said in those studies is basically impossible to vape in a day.

    And I havent seen anything in regards to chest xrays. if anything, I have seen reports where doctors have siad that the switch from smoking to vaping has increased lung efficiency.

    Also, the reports of metals from "some" brands is said to be less when the coil is used more. So that means for only certain brands this is a problem, and that its a manufacturing issue, not a breakdown of the material.

    #248 4 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    Got a couple of questions: Let me reiterate, I am not defending tobacco, Big Tobacco, or vaping. But they are here and they exist. They are not going away.
    What is SKB? Never heard of it. How much does its cessation product cost? What kind of product is it? Patch? Gum? Injection?
    I smoked for 46 years and tried everything except Chantix to quit.
    Gum, patches, Beechnut, Redman, nothing did it for me. Except vaping. 4 months of vaping from 16 ml or mg (I forget which) of nicotine down to zero and after 46 years I was smoke free and nicotine free. The vaping cost me about $100.00 total.
    The gum costs 33.00 at Walmart for 170 pieces. On Amazon, a box of Juicy Fruit gum, 180 sticks costs $17.98. From my vaping experience, i know the nicotine does not cost all that much. And it leaves me wondering why a box of nicotine gum costs 84% more than a box of Juicy Fruit?
    Where is the extra cost coming from? Is the government laying a hefty tax on nicotine gum, as well? Sort like sticking it to the smokers for all they are worth?
    I know everybody has to make a living. I get that. But how much does the SKB product cost?
    The gum sure is no bargain; While vaping, for someone motivated to quit, is poor man's "get out of jail card" so to speak. Or at least it will be until the government figures out how to lay on the sin taxes.

    This is one example.

    https://vaping360.com/vape-news/73683/dangerous-metals-in-vaping-put-into-context/

    #249 4 years ago
    Quoted from robotron911:

    My information is 100% accurate. I work in the biotech/pharma industry. SKB has a smoking cessation product. Part of their product research is looking at use in patients using any nicotine substance - i.e. vaping. Baseline chest X-rays and CTs are done to see what, if any, effect (improvement) may coincide with nicotine-replacement. The baseline chest images are startlingly similar for vaping and smoking.
    And you honestly believe that the extremely fine wire filaments in the device don’t degrade over time with constant cycling of heat and cooling? That would run contrary to literally EVERYTHING they teach about the physical properties of metals.
    You have your right to blindly defend something that you have no long term information on and is provided by a manufacturing base with a long, documented history of fraudulent, deceptive practices. I have the right not to want to foot the bill for your behavior when it likely results in negative consequences.

    This is one example:

    https://vaping360.com/vape-news/73683/dangerous-metals-in-vaping-put-into-context/

    #250 4 years ago
    Quoted from robotron911:

    My information is 100% accurate. I work in the biotech/pharma industry. SKB has a smoking cessation product. Part of their product research is looking at use in patients using any nicotine substance - i.e. vaping. Baseline chest X-rays and CTs are done to see what, if any, effect (improvement) may coincide with nicotine-replacement. The baseline chest images are startlingly similar for vaping and smoking.
    And you honestly believe that the extremely fine wire filaments in the device don’t degrade over time with constant cycling of heat and cooling? That would run contrary to literally EVERYTHING they teach about the physical properties of metals.
    You have your right to blindly defend something that you have no long term information on and is provided by a manufacturing base with a long, documented history of fraudulent, deceptive practices. I have the right not to want to foot the bill for your behavior when it likely results in negative consequences.

    And more on the metals showing its not a breakdown of the product:

    "Aerosol metal concentrations tended to be higher for e-cigarettes with more frequently changed coils, suggesting that fresher coils shed metals more readily."

    https://www.futurity.org/e-cigarettes-harmful-metals-aerosol-1686792/

    #252 4 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I am not favorable to considering the vape360.com as a trusted source for honest information.
    The place is selling vape products, therefore, vape360 is predisposed to providing only "happy" news about vape products. It is not going to print any information that might kill sales.
    Is is sort of like reading a glowing report about some product in a magazine; The report tells you about how great XYZ is and then you turn the page and now see a two page advertisement for the fantastic product you just read about.
    You should consider another source.

    I actually linked that to you by mistake but...

    I typically would agree with you but what they are writing is correct. I have seen this in the past where studies conducted are not correct. One was done years ago about heating vape juice. The funniest part of the study was that the heating being done was not possible to reach in any vaping device, yet they are saying when heated, it creates bad things.

    Its the same as what the above guy was saying. His lab shows things that vaping is bad, meanwhile offering a different product.

    It is good to look at findings from both sides as both are biased in their ways and trying to prove a point.

    #253 4 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I am not favorable to considering the vape360.com as a trusted source for honest information.
    The place is selling vape products, therefore, vape360 is predisposed to providing only "happy" news about vape products. It is not going to print any information that might kill sales.
    Is is sort of like reading a glowing report about some product in a magazine; The report tells you about how great XYZ is and then you turn the page and now see a two page advertisement for the fantastic product you just read about.
    You should consider another source.

    Heres from another site. of course the vaping companies are going to be the ones to say the reports are not correct. What they are saying certainly makes sense...

    https://www.vapor4life.com/blog/toxic-metals-in-vapor-study-debunked/

    #254 4 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I am not favorable to considering the vape360.com as a trusted source for honest information.
    The place is selling vape products, therefore, vape360 is predisposed to providing only "happy" news about vape products. It is not going to print any information that might kill sales.
    Is is sort of like reading a glowing report about some product in a magazine; The report tells you about how great XYZ is and then you turn the page and now see a two page advertisement for the fantastic product you just read about.
    You should consider another source.

    Also to note, Vape360 does not sell any products, they link to websites that do.

    3 weeks later
    #261 4 years ago
    Quoted from P1nhead:

    I am a physician and have personally treated, while in residency, teenagers and "adults" in their early twenties with lungs worse than a coal miner. Bronchiolitis obliterans is a horrible thing and something that should be a rarity in clinical practice, however, all these patients had one thing in common: diacetyl that is found in nearly all vaping juices (not to be confused with vitamin E acetate). Diacetyl is well studied, there is consensus and it is known to be dangerous to your health.
    Further studies are still needed, but not because we lack consensus or sufficient insight with statistically significant p-values. We try to honor evidence based medicine and biostatistics in striving to design studies with more power, fewer errors, and minimal bias.
    There was recently an example of a teenager that underwent bronchoscopy due to progressive dyspnea at rest (shortness of breath). Gobs of vaping juice (that was not vaporized) mixed with the body's natural defenders to form rather large plugs (noncaseating granulomas). Bronchoalveolar lavage was done and the kid could breath again, though complete recovery of lung function is unlikely. I have also seen the same illness in mid-40s men - incomplete vaporization led to an accumulation of vaping juice in the respiratory tree where the body's macrophages walled off the substance and formed granulomas.
    We (the body of evidence based medicine) already know what pneumonitis leads to (incredibly common among vape users). Respiratory infections are increasing among those who vape. The mucocilliary system along the respiratory tree is dysfunctional just as with cigarettes - this same system that provides many of the symptoms in patients with CF. Many of the vaping juices come off the boat from China, early studies with murinae demonstrate mutogenic and carcinogenic potential of vaping liquids. Of course, many prospective studies are underway and many retrospective cohorts will be examined in the not-so-distsnt future. We are looking at mutogenic and carcinogenic compounds delivered into a vascular rich zone of the lungs with greatest perfusion. These chemicals being investigated are not the California prop-65 everything causes cancer type but real, legitimate, cancer-causing-screw-the-two-hit-hypothesis agents. There are also a myriad of implications beyond affects on lung pathophysiology (number one risk factor in bladder cancer is smoking, same goes for renal cell carcinoma not cause by VHL).
    Bottom line: vaping is hazardous to your health, just as smoking cigarettes. Use the real thing if you are going to do it - at least we have more than a hundred years of scientific research, generally no surprises when a smoker falls ill.
    While you are at it, go out to the local coffee shop and pick up a coffee stirrer. Take the deepest breath in that you can and then blow it all out through a coffee stirrer. That is the sensation you will experience as the damage to your lungs progresses to COPD. Some of the worst suffering I've witnessed.
    If anyone would like help quitting, contact your 800 quit line. If you tried cold turkey (best method, it is what I did), then try the gum. If you tried the gum, then try the lozenges. Give the patch a whirl. Take an antidepressant with very high success rates. Try hypnosis. Join a gym. Get an accountability buddy. Lastly, ask for a medical-grade "vaping" device, the nicotine inhaler.
    Every doctor on the planet would be super pumped if vaping was a safe alternative to cigarettes! Nonetheless, I am sorry to report they are not safe and carry a similar risk profile to anything you inhale deeply into the lungs.
    I'll get off my soapbox now and return to pinball. Well, pinball once I put in work, nessun riposo per i malvagi!

    Yes, Diacetyl is bad for you. Many Ejuice companies will show test results for their flavors showing the levels of these things, this included. Diacetyl is not in all ejuice and often is found in certain flavors, usually Milk or Custards, Cremes. These are the keywords to look for and avoid.

    In the UK, doctors do feel it is a safe alternative. There are ejuice shops in hospitals.

    But in reality, cigarettes have much more diacetyl than ejuices. So to recommend smoking as better simply doesnt make sense.

    #263 4 years ago
    Quoted from P1nhead:

    That was tongue in cheek, thought that was pretty obvious.

    haha you just never know these days

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