(Topic ID: 251634)

Feds Seek Ban on Flavored Vape Liquid/Cigarettes fine


By tbutler6

57 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 263 posts
  • 68 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by Rager170
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic poll

    “Vaping or Smoking”

    • Vaping-not tar/should be safer 20 votes
      36%
    • Cigarettes-dead at 60 aint too bad 7 votes
      13%
    • Grow up and be miserable like me 28 votes
      51%

    (55 votes)

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 14 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    chemistry (resized).JPG
    download (2) (resized).jpg
    download (1) (resized).jpg
    A5B5D2ED-3BDA-4A62-B044-4ED4CB821881 (resized).jpeg
    hqdefault (resized).jpg
    images (resized).jpg
    drub (resized).png
    Candy-Cigarettes-Original-WEB_1000x1000 (resized).jpg
    download (2) (resized).jpg
    1731DD6C-995F-4DB3-B2F6-AEAE0C7B43B7 (resized).png
    smoke.gif
    RJR 1975 (resized).PNG
    unicorn-cakes-by-vape-breakfast-classics-90ml-blueberry-pancake-strawberry-milk-e-juice-800x800 (resized).jpg
    D9255B16-DF95-450C-BFE6-CC3A0250DCB5 (resized).jpeg

    There are 263 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 6.
    #251 25 days ago

    I am not favorable to considering the vape360.com as a trusted source for honest information.

    The place is selling vape products, therefore, vape360 is predisposed to providing only "happy" news about vape products. It is not going to print any information that might kill sales.

    Is is sort of like reading a glowing report about some product in a magazine; The report tells you about how great XYZ is and then you turn the page and now see a two page advertisement for the fantastic product you just read about.

    You should consider another source.

    #252 25 days ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I am not favorable to considering the vape360.com as a trusted source for honest information.
    The place is selling vape products, therefore, vape360 is predisposed to providing only "happy" news about vape products. It is not going to print any information that might kill sales.
    Is is sort of like reading a glowing report about some product in a magazine; The report tells you about how great XYZ is and then you turn the page and now see a two page advertisement for the fantastic product you just read about.
    You should consider another source.

    I actually linked that to you by mistake but...

    I typically would agree with you but what they are writing is correct. I have seen this in the past where studies conducted are not correct. One was done years ago about heating vape juice. The funniest part of the study was that the heating being done was not possible to reach in any vaping device, yet they are saying when heated, it creates bad things.

    Its the same as what the above guy was saying. His lab shows things that vaping is bad, meanwhile offering a different product.

    It is good to look at findings from both sides as both are biased in their ways and trying to prove a point.

    #253 25 days ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I am not favorable to considering the vape360.com as a trusted source for honest information.
    The place is selling vape products, therefore, vape360 is predisposed to providing only "happy" news about vape products. It is not going to print any information that might kill sales.
    Is is sort of like reading a glowing report about some product in a magazine; The report tells you about how great XYZ is and then you turn the page and now see a two page advertisement for the fantastic product you just read about.
    You should consider another source.

    Heres from another site. of course the vaping companies are going to be the ones to say the reports are not correct. What they are saying certainly makes sense...

    https://www.vapor4life.com/blog/toxic-metals-in-vapor-study-debunked/

    #254 25 days ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I am not favorable to considering the vape360.com as a trusted source for honest information.
    The place is selling vape products, therefore, vape360 is predisposed to providing only "happy" news about vape products. It is not going to print any information that might kill sales.
    Is is sort of like reading a glowing report about some product in a magazine; The report tells you about how great XYZ is and then you turn the page and now see a two page advertisement for the fantastic product you just read about.
    You should consider another source.

    Also to note, Vape360 does not sell any products, they link to websites that do.

    3 weeks later
    #256 3 days ago

    I am a physician and have personally treated, while in residency, teenagers and "adults" in their early twenties with lungs worse than a coal miner. Bronchiolitis obliterans is a horrible thing and something that should be a rarity in clinical practice, however, all these patients had one thing in common: diacetyl that is found in nearly all vaping juices (not to be confused with vitamin E acetate). Diacetyl is well studied, there is consensus and it is known to be dangerous to your health.

    Further studies are still needed, but not because we lack consensus or sufficient insight with statistically significant p-values. We try to honor evidence based medicine and biostatistics in striving to design studies with more power, fewer errors, and minimal bias.

    There was recently an example of a teenager that underwent bronchoscopy due to progressive dyspnea at rest (shortness of breath). Gobs of vaping juice (that was not vaporized) mixed with the body's natural defenders to form rather large plugs (noncaseating granulomas). Bronchoalveolar lavage was done and the kid could breath again, though complete recovery of lung function is unlikely. I have also seen the same illness in mid-40s men - incomplete vaporization led to an accumulation of vaping juice in the respiratory tree where the body's macrophages walled off the substance and formed granulomas.

    We (the body of evidence based medicine) already know what pneumonitis leads to (incredibly common among vape users). Respiratory infections are increasing among those who vape. The mucocilliary system along the respiratory tree is dysfunctional just as with cigarettes - this same system that provides many of the symptoms in patients with CF. Many of the vaping juices come off the boat from China, early studies with murinae demonstrate mutogenic and carcinogenic potential of vaping liquids. Of course, many prospective studies are underway and many retrospective cohorts will be examined in the not-so-distsnt future. We are looking at mutogenic and carcinogenic compounds delivered into a vascular rich zone of the lungs with greatest perfusion. These chemicals being investigated are not the California prop-65 everything causes cancer type but real, legitimate, cancer-causing-screw-the-two-hit-hypothesis agents. There are also a myriad of implications beyond affects on lung pathophysiology (number one risk factor in bladder cancer is smoking, same goes for renal cell carcinoma not cause by VHL).

    Bottom line: vaping is hazardous to your health, just as smoking cigarettes. Use the real thing if you are going to do it - at least we have more than a hundred years of scientific research, generally no surprises when a smoker falls ill.

    While you are at it, go out to the local coffee shop and pick up a coffee stirrer. Take the deepest breath in that you can and then blow it all out through a coffee stirrer. That is the sensation you will experience as the damage to your lungs progresses to COPD. Some of the worst suffering I've witnessed.

    If anyone would like help quitting, contact your 800 quit line. If you tried cold turkey (best method, it is what I did), then try the gum. If you tried the gum, then try the lozenges. Give the patch a whirl. Take an antidepressant with very high success rates. Try hypnosis. Join a gym. Get an accountability buddy. Lastly, ask for a medical-grade "vaping" device, the nicotine inhaler.

    Every doctor on the planet would be super pumped if vaping was a safe alternative to cigarettes! Nonetheless, I am sorry to report they are not safe and carry a similar risk profile to anything you inhale deeply into the lungs.

    I'll get off my soapbox now and return to pinball. Well, pinball once I put in work, nessun riposo per i malvagi!

    #257 3 days ago

    Daily Show take on it:

    #258 3 days ago
    Quoted from P1nhead:

    I am a physician and have personally treated, while in residency, teenagers and "adults" in their early twenties with lungs worse than a coal miner. Bronchiolitis obliterans is a horrible thing and something that should be a rarity in clinical practice, however, all these patients had one thing in common: diacetyl that is found in nearly all vaping juices (not to be confused with vitamin E acetate). Diacetyl is well studied, there is consensus and it is known to be dangerous to your health.
    Further studies are still needed, but not because we lack consensus or sufficient insight with statistically significant p-values. We try to honor evidence based medicine and biostatistics in striving to design studies with more power, fewer errors, and minimal bias.
    There was recently an example of a teenager that underwent bronchoscopy due to progressive dyspnea at rest (shortness of breath). Gobs of vaping juice (that was not vaporized) mixed with the body's natural defenders to form rather large plugs (noncaseating granulomas). Bronchoalveolar lavage was done and the kid could breath again, though complete recovery of lung function is unlikely. I have also seen the same illness in mid-40s men - incomplete vaporization led to an accumulation of vaping juice in the respiratory tree where the body's macrophages walled off the substance and formed granulomas.
    We (the body of evidence based medicine) already know what pneumonitis leads to (incredibly common among vape users). Respiratory infections are increasing among those who vape. The mucocilliary system along the respiratory tree is dysfunctional just as with cigarettes - this same system that provides many of the symptoms in patients with CF. Many of the vaping juices come off the boat from China, early studies with murinae demonstrate mutogenic and carcinogenic potential of vaping liquids. Of course, many prospective studies are underway and many retrospective cohorts will be examined in the not-so-distsnt future. We are looking at mutogenic and carcinogenic compounds delivered into a vascular rich zone of the lungs with greatest perfusion. These chemicals being investigated are not the California prop-65 everything causes cancer type but real, legitimate, cancer-causing-screw-the-two-hit-hypothesis agents. There are also a myriad of implications beyond affects on lung pathophysiology (number one risk factor in bladder cancer is smoking, same goes for renal cell carcinoma not cause by VHL).
    Bottom line: vaping is hazardous to your health, just as smoking cigarettes. Use the real thing if you are going to do it - at least we have more than a hundred years of scientific research, generally no surprises when a smoker falls ill.
    While you are at it, go out to the local coffee shop and pick up a coffee stirrer. Take the deepest breath in that you can and then blow it all out through a coffee stirrer. That is the sensation you will experience as the damage to your lungs progresses to COPD. Some of the worst suffering I've witnessed.
    If anyone would like help quitting, contact your 800 quit line. If you tried cold turkey (best method, it is what I did), then try the gum. If you tried the gum, then try the lozenges. Give the patch a whirl. Take an antidepressant with very high success rates. Try hypnosis. Join a gym. Get an accountability buddy. Lastly, ask for a medical-grade "vaping" device, the nicotine inhaler.
    Every doctor on the planet would be super pumped if vaping was a safe alternative to cigarettes! Nonetheless, I am sorry to report they are not safe and carry a similar risk profile to anything you inhale deeply into the lungs.
    I'll get off my soapbox now and return to pinball. Well, pinball once I put in work, nessun riposo per i malvagi!

    Nice post, thanks for the info.

    #259 3 days ago

    At the end of the day people just like sticking things in their mouth. If the government makes it harder or less acceptable to do it one way (their 60 years and counting slow motion prohibition of smoking) people will just find something else.

    #260 3 days ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    At the end of the day people just like sticking things in their mouth. If the government makes it harder or less acceptable to do it one way (their 60 years and counting slow motion prohibition of smoking) people will just find something else.

    I agree.

    Part of me believes that the government should do jack about any of this. Maybe Allow our quasi free market forces to direct the future of the tobacco/nicotine industry. If anything, the FDA could establish standards of purity and require known harmful agents to be removed. Hell, once trial attorneys/medicolegal types get with the times there will be a metric tonne of briefs filed and plenty of juries to award multi-million dollar victories. Most companies will change their ways after the first successful lawsuit.

    We could also discuss exclusion criteria in health insurance plans or risk-adjusted pricing (some plans do penalize you for smoking with higher premiums, deductibles, and maximum out of pocket expenses). I have no clue why I am forced to indemnify the risky behavior of others. If you want to skydive, shoot heroin, drive Nascar then there should be a risk-based adjustment for health insurance similar to the actuarial tables. You want to engage in a risky behavior with the potential to be a burden on the other people in the risk pool? Pay for it.

    Severe taxes will be the likely solution though, just as with traditional tobacco products. It is an alinsky nudge that does not really affect behavior in the desired way. Nothing more frustrating than the patient that cannot pay a $40 copay for a colonoscopy that saved them from cancer yet they can afford to smoke nearly two cartons a month. Rather than getting reimbursed like I should, those tobacco tax dollars fund the oppressors. For almost every state it is a confiscatory windfall.

    Remember all, we had a freaking revolution over a 3% tax. I didn't quit smoking for health reasons, that was a side effect. I quit because I woke up one day and realized big tobacco was controlling me - I hate losing autonomy! What made it worse was the state government in NY kept increasing their take... here I was, with hazardous substance use disorder and my own freaking government was charging me for it.

    #261 1 day ago
    Quoted from P1nhead:

    I am a physician and have personally treated, while in residency, teenagers and "adults" in their early twenties with lungs worse than a coal miner. Bronchiolitis obliterans is a horrible thing and something that should be a rarity in clinical practice, however, all these patients had one thing in common: diacetyl that is found in nearly all vaping juices (not to be confused with vitamin E acetate). Diacetyl is well studied, there is consensus and it is known to be dangerous to your health.
    Further studies are still needed, but not because we lack consensus or sufficient insight with statistically significant p-values. We try to honor evidence based medicine and biostatistics in striving to design studies with more power, fewer errors, and minimal bias.
    There was recently an example of a teenager that underwent bronchoscopy due to progressive dyspnea at rest (shortness of breath). Gobs of vaping juice (that was not vaporized) mixed with the body's natural defenders to form rather large plugs (noncaseating granulomas). Bronchoalveolar lavage was done and the kid could breath again, though complete recovery of lung function is unlikely. I have also seen the same illness in mid-40s men - incomplete vaporization led to an accumulation of vaping juice in the respiratory tree where the body's macrophages walled off the substance and formed granulomas.
    We (the body of evidence based medicine) already know what pneumonitis leads to (incredibly common among vape users). Respiratory infections are increasing among those who vape. The mucocilliary system along the respiratory tree is dysfunctional just as with cigarettes - this same system that provides many of the symptoms in patients with CF. Many of the vaping juices come off the boat from China, early studies with murinae demonstrate mutogenic and carcinogenic potential of vaping liquids. Of course, many prospective studies are underway and many retrospective cohorts will be examined in the not-so-distsnt future. We are looking at mutogenic and carcinogenic compounds delivered into a vascular rich zone of the lungs with greatest perfusion. These chemicals being investigated are not the California prop-65 everything causes cancer type but real, legitimate, cancer-causing-screw-the-two-hit-hypothesis agents. There are also a myriad of implications beyond affects on lung pathophysiology (number one risk factor in bladder cancer is smoking, same goes for renal cell carcinoma not cause by VHL).
    Bottom line: vaping is hazardous to your health, just as smoking cigarettes. Use the real thing if you are going to do it - at least we have more than a hundred years of scientific research, generally no surprises when a smoker falls ill.
    While you are at it, go out to the local coffee shop and pick up a coffee stirrer. Take the deepest breath in that you can and then blow it all out through a coffee stirrer. That is the sensation you will experience as the damage to your lungs progresses to COPD. Some of the worst suffering I've witnessed.
    If anyone would like help quitting, contact your 800 quit line. If you tried cold turkey (best method, it is what I did), then try the gum. If you tried the gum, then try the lozenges. Give the patch a whirl. Take an antidepressant with very high success rates. Try hypnosis. Join a gym. Get an accountability buddy. Lastly, ask for a medical-grade "vaping" device, the nicotine inhaler.
    Every doctor on the planet would be super pumped if vaping was a safe alternative to cigarettes! Nonetheless, I am sorry to report they are not safe and carry a similar risk profile to anything you inhale deeply into the lungs.
    I'll get off my soapbox now and return to pinball. Well, pinball once I put in work, nessun riposo per i malvagi!

    Yes, Diacetyl is bad for you. Many Ejuice companies will show test results for their flavors showing the levels of these things, this included. Diacetyl is not in all ejuice and often is found in certain flavors, usually Milk or Custards, Cremes. These are the keywords to look for and avoid.

    In the UK, doctors do feel it is a safe alternative. There are ejuice shops in hospitals.

    But in reality, cigarettes have much more diacetyl than ejuices. So to recommend smoking as better simply doesnt make sense.

    #262 1 day ago
    Quoted from Rager170:

    So to recommend smoking as better simply doesnt make sense.

    That was tongue in cheek, thought that was pretty obvious.

    Also, the presence of vapor juice in hospital's doesn't mean it is okay for you. I bought one of my first pack of cigarettes in a hospital and just last week picked up a 20oz mountain dew along with a deep fried turkey and mashed potato sandwich with a side of extra creamy mac and cheese. The number one brand of cigarettes chosen by American physicians used to be Lucky Strike, no filter.

    #263 1 day ago
    Quoted from P1nhead:

    That was tongue in cheek, thought that was pretty obvious.

    haha you just never know these days

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    From: $ 9.99
    From: $ 42.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 7,499.00
    Pinball Machine
    Classic Game Rooms
    $ 18.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    From: $ 11.95
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ULEKstore
    $ 35.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    Pinball Haus
    $ 9,500.00
    Pinball Machine
    Great American Pinball
    $ 96.77
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Pinball-Mods.com
    $ 58.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lermods
    $ 7,499.00
    Pinball Machine
    Little Shop Of Games
    $ 35.99
    Lighting - Interactive
    Lee's Parts
    $ 159.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    From: $ 54.00
    $ 24.25
    Lighting - Other
    The MOD Couple
    From: $ 42.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 39.99
    Lighting - Interactive
    Lee's Parts
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 89.99
    Cabinet - Toppers
    Id Rather Play Pinball
    From: $ 159.95
    $ 7,299.00
    Pinball Machine
    Classic Game Rooms
    $ 11,500.00
    $ 29.25
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    The MOD Couple
    From: $ 42.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    There are 263 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 6.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside