Be safe people...Sounds like the lipid pneumonia excuse is falling apart after the first formal study:

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEFpTb5gK8GKRKBDm--NpLxwqGQgEKhAIACoHCAow2Nb3CjDivdcCMP3ungY?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

Researchers from the Mayo Clinic examined lung biopsies from 17 patients suspected of having a perplexing vaping illness that's sickened more than 805 people since April. Doctors have previously said it resembled a rare form of pneumonia caused by the accumulation of fatty substances known as lipids.

However, none of the cases examined by the Mayo Clinic researchers showed any evidence of lipoid pneumonia

It's the first formal study examining tissue samples of patients who have fallen ill from vaping.

"It seems to be some kind of direct chemical injury, similar to what one might see with exposures to toxic chemical fumes, poisonous gases and toxic agents," said Dr. Brandon Larsen, a surgical pathologist at Mayo Clinic Arizona and a lead author of the study. "Based on what we have seen in our study, we suspect that most cases involve chemical contaminants, toxic byproducts or other noxious agents within vape liquids."

Kind of like eating a Tide pod?

Tide pods indeed. Vaporizing toxins and letting them interact with your lungs which absorb them...high risk behavior. Be careful with this stuff

What puzzles me with this vaping is that it has been going on for several years. So why all the problems all of a sudden.? Not all of these (teenage) vapers have doing this long term so no one can say we are now seeing the long term effects of vape use.

To me, the main questions would be:

1) Are these people who ran out of luck mixing their own vape juice?

or

2) Is this new problem effecting those who are using the Juul type pods only?

The juice has been around for awhile. The pods are a new item.

Imagine that.....

Altria owns 37% of Juul.

Check this out.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/04/business/iqos-us-launch/index.html

" Vaping is in crisis. Smoking is taboo. Altria has a solution: Iqos, an electronic cigarette-like gadget that heats, but doesn't burn tobacco. Philip Morris has been selling Iqos for a while in international markets. Altria will distribute Iqos in the United States for the first time Friday. The timing couldn't be better for the new nicotine product, as scrutiny grows around smokeless alternatives like e-cigarettes."

" The opening follows the Food and Drug Administration's approval of Iqos in April. The agency allowed the Iqos to go on sale because it produces "fewer or lower levels of some toxins than combustible cigarettes." Regulators also "placed stringent marketing restrictions" on the product, including FDA approval of its ads. "

" Unlike Juuls and other vapes, Iqos uses actual tobacco...."
===========================

The Regulators: We can't let this vaping shut down the entire U.S. tobacco industry, can we?" How are we going to shut down vaping and keep tobacco viable? Anybody got any ideas?

Did they ever?

To my knowledge, the only vape company owned by the government is Juul. And that is why you only see "flavored" ejuices being targeted. It really makes no sense. Why ban only flavored vapes. If people are dying from something and it hasnt been linked to a flavor.... The answer is that the government is using these illnesses to push their agenda, as always.

Do you have a link for this claim? Because the rest of your post leaves me confused.

Lemme see. The government owns Juul. Juul seems to be the king in selling flavored vapes. And therefore the government is trying to ban itself from selling flavored vapes. Please tell how this works.

If all the other vape companies cannot sell their flavored vapes, that leaves Juul the king of tobacco flavored vaping. I was not aware that Juul was big on the scene for its flavored pods..

I'm sorry. Let's do one thing at a time.

You made the claim that Juul is owned by the government. Can you back that claim up with any kind of link? Or are you just BS'n ?

Oh sorry, they own 37%. I bet that number grows.

I do assume you realize that Altria is Phillip Morris..

I do. Your assumption is correct.

So, are you going to stand by your statement that, "the only vape company owned by the government is Juul." ? Or did you by chance mis-speak?

Is it not true? Are more owned by the goverment?

I think he’s asking what’s your basis for saying the government owns 37% of Phillip Morris/Altria/Juul. I’m curious as well.

I wasn’t aware that the government had a majority stake (or any stake for that matter) in either Juul or Altria (Phillip Morris) or any of the other investment groups associated with either company.

Could you please link me to that info. I am very curious.

I also think this is the point the other poster was trying to make.

EDIT: Fosaisu beat me to the punch.

Its said in the link he provided by CNN..

This is a seriously ignorant statement. There are chest imaging series done comparing smokers and habitual vapers. The two groups are virtually indistinguishable. Additionally, you are inhaling heavy metals in trace amounts, as the heating elements in these degrade. Where do you think the small bits of the heating elements go? The vaping companies cannot/have not disclosed everything that is chemically in vape.

Oh, and let’s not forget vaping is backed by Big Tobacco which has a century plus history of lying about the health hazards of actual smoking all while trying to make their product more addictive.

For those who want to add Cannabis to the argument... do you know how that was grown? What pesticides or fertilizers were used and are now being aerosolized into your lungs?

Stupid monkeys.

It was in the link given by cottonm4

Sorry, but your information is incorrect. That might have been found in a product or two but not for everything. And the metal stuff was from manufacturing, not due to heating. You cant just lump all products under that statement by any means.

Also, there have been no reports that I have seen showing vaping is as bad as smoking like you mention.

I read that article. I don’t see the part where the government owns either company.

No it isn’t. The CNN article says Altria owns 35% of Juul. Nothing in there about the government owning any of these companies.

Altria is Phillip Morris.

Lol, do some homework. Altria is Phillip Morris.

And Altria = government is your point?

What the hell are we talking about here? I asked why you think the government owns Phillip Morris. You said go read the article. I did, and it says nothing about the government owning any of these companies.

Are you not aware that all these years Philip Morris is a government controlled company??

Pretty much yes.

Source please.

Oh lordy. I dont have time for all that. I thought this was a well known thing. I guess not.

I was not aware no. Could you point me towards a source of that info?

Gotcha. Now I at least understand what you are trying to say.

Did you hear it from a guy on the internet? If so, I’ve got some bad news for you ...

No, ive heard it for the past 40 years. Since Phillip Morris pays so much to the government...

Ok, so this whole “ownership” thing was either a sarcastic comment on taxation/regulation of the tobacco industry, or a wild expansion of the (true) point that after the tobacco settlements in the 1990s, the States ended up with a strong financial interest in the tobacco companies survival (because annual payments were to be made over several decades). But it’s a big leap from there to the US (or the States) “owning” PM or Altria, or having a vested interest in their survival vs other companies.

The government has always had an interest in Phillip Morris due to how much money they get from them.

Sure, through cigarette taxes. But the same is true of any tobacco company (and to some extent of any company at all, since they’re all at least supposed to pay taxes here). I don’t see how that would make the government biased in favor of one particular tobacco company vs the others that pay the same taxes.

Key thing to me is “indirect financial interest” vs “37% ownership” (which would be super surprising since it’s either rare or unheard of for the US to hold shares in companies due to the insane conflict of interest that would create).

Its more than just taxes. They contribute a ton to political interests as well.

Campaign contributions? Again I’m sure they do, and no doubt that has hugely impacted how tobacco gets regulated (or doesn’t get regulated, at least compared to other countries) in the US. But the same is true of most other huge companies, they’re all in there lobbying away. So I’m not sure that makes Altria’s relationship with the government unique.

Good point. But in regards to the tobacco industry, Phillip Morris is the one that seems to be brought up a good amount in the past specifically with this.

Are you talking about this? "The Regulators: We can't let this vaping shut down the entire U.S. tobacco industry, can we?" How are we going to shut down vaping and keep tobacco viable? Anybody got any ideas?"

I'm sorry. That was me just making something as a parody of how the Feds must be thinking. I could have made it more clear, I guess. Sorry you missed it.

Based on information that I have seen, the people getting sick vaping are using eliquid purchased on the street that contain THC (illegal in many states) and some other nasty stuff, with no idea what is in the liquid and it is probably completely illegal. After they get sick, they don't want to admit that they are using illegal substances, so no one in the government can put their finger on the actual problem. So vaping just gets blamed as a general rule. I agree that teenagers should not be allowed to vape, just like they are not legally allowed to smoke. However, a ban on vaping products will probably only force teenagers to purchase more of the street products that were illegal in the first place. This whole argument reminds me of the ban on guns. It is the illegal people that use guns to harm others. They could easily use some other lethal force object or substance to harm others if they are not allowed to legally purchase a gun.

Exactly.

Yes. But that does not mean the government owns P-M.
==============================================

Mississippi wanted little do to with casinos and would only let the casinos anchor slot machine laden barges to the shore line in Biloxi. Then Katrina hit. All of the barge casinos were wiped out during the hurricane. The casinos told Mississippi they were not coming back unless they could move onto land.

All of Mississippi's bible thumpers figured the money met more to them than gamblers living in sin so the laws were passed and the casinos landed.

You are right the government has an interest in P-M. Don't let all this stop-smoking shit fool you. The government would fall to its knees if everybody stopped smoking. And anything tobacco, the government likes; From the seeds in the ground to the cellophane wrapper on the pack. It is revenue. It generates taxable dollars. Big taxable dollars. From tires and trucks and fuel; From the paper and the printing ink. The government is not going to shut down tobacco. Too much money at stake. Too many jobs are at stake.

Don't forget all of the convenience stores that would have to close if they did not have a wall of cigarettes to sell. Which leads to the question: How come big tobacco always gets the bad rap but the convenience stores get a free ride?

Vaping threatens all of that revenue and the taxes generated. Hence my parody statement: The government has to come up with something to shut vaping down. So, either it finds some way to jack vaping taxes way up there, or someway to shut vaping down completely.

How convenient for the Feds that all of a sudden, a product that does not seem to have caused a problem until very recently is getting front page news about teenagers coughing up blood and rolling over dead. It has to be teenagers. No one would care about some dried up old fart one cough away from his gravesite. It's for the children, ladies and gentlemen. It is all for the children.

While at the same time, over in the UK, vaping is being championed as a valid tool to help people quit smoking. Is there a difference? I say yes. The U.S. has a very big tobacco industry to protect and no government healthcare. The U.K. has no tobacco industry to protect and has nationwide health care. The U.K. has everything to gain by people stopping smoking. The U.S.; Not so much.

My information is 100% accurate. I work in the biotech/pharma industry. SKB has a smoking cessation product. Part of their product research is looking at use in patients using any nicotine substance - i.e. vaping. Baseline chest X-rays and CTs are done to see what, if any, effect (improvement) may coincide with nicotine-replacement. The baseline chest images are startlingly similar for vaping and smoking.

And you honestly believe that the extremely fine wire filaments in the device don’t degrade over time with constant cycling of heat and cooling? That would run contrary to literally EVERYTHING they teach about the physical properties of metals.

You have your right to blindly defend something that you have no long term information on and is provided by a manufacturing base with a long, documented history of fraudulent, deceptive practices. I have the right not to want to foot the bill for your behavior when it likely results in negative consequences.

Got a couple of questions: Let me reiterate, I am not defending tobacco, Big Tobacco, or vaping. But they are here and they exist. They are not going away.

What is SKB? Never heard of it. How much does its cessation product cost? What kind of product is it? Patch? Gum? Injection?

I smoked for 46 years and tried everything except Chantix to quit.

Gum, patches, Beechnut, Redman, nothing did it for me. Except vaping. 4 months of vaping from 16 ml or mg (I forget which) of nicotine down to zero and after 46 years I was smoke free and nicotine free. The vaping cost me about $100.00 total.

The gum costs 33.00 at Walmart for 170 pieces. On Amazon, a box of Juicy Fruit gum, 180 sticks costs $17.98. From my vaping experience, i know the nicotine does not cost all that much. And it leaves me wondering why a box of nicotine gum costs 84% more than a box of Juicy Fruit?

Where is the extra cost coming from? Is the government laying a hefty tax on nicotine gum, as well? Sort like sticking it to the smokers for all they are worth?

I know everybody has to make a living. I get that. But how much does the SKB product cost?

The gum sure is no bargain; While vaping, for someone motivated to quit, is poor man's "get out of jail card" so to speak. Or at least it will be until the government figures out how to lay on the sin taxes.

Show your sources. Because what you are saying doesnt seem correct. From what I have read about the metals, the amount of ejuice one would need to consume to meet the levels said in those studies is basically impossible to vape in a day.

And I havent seen anything in regards to chest xrays. if anything, I have seen reports where doctors have siad that the switch from smoking to vaping has increased lung efficiency.

Also, the reports of metals from "some" brands is said to be less when the coil is used more. So that means for only certain brands this is a problem, and that its a manufacturing issue, not a breakdown of the material.

This is one example.

https://vaping360.com/vape-news/73683/dangerous-metals-in-vaping-put-into-context/

This is one example:

https://vaping360.com/vape-news/73683/dangerous-metals-in-vaping-put-into-context/

And more on the metals showing its not a breakdown of the product:

"Aerosol metal concentrations tended to be higher for e-cigarettes with more frequently changed coils, suggesting that fresher coils shed metals more readily."

https://www.futurity.org/e-cigarettes-harmful-metals-aerosol-1686792/