(Topic ID: 258009)

Feature lights mixed up


By flappybob123

57 days ago



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  • 19 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 56 days ago by frunch
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#1 57 days ago

On my Bally power play, the wrong feature lights light up but at the correct timings. So for example, instead of the feature lights for the bumpers switching between each other on each hit, the special lights alternate between on and off. I had a similar problem with the solenoids mixing up, and it ended up being the U11 chip. I was able to test it using my logic probe. But I'm currently unsure which chip may be at fault here. Another issue that persists is the machine occasionally will not boot. The lights turn on, but the mpu does not always pass each flash test. When I try again, sometimes the same issue persists, but sometimes the machine will boot and operate correctly (other than the mixed up feature lights). Any ideas? Sometimes the machine will also quit working altogether in the middle of game play (usually right when a solenoid fires), and then will reboot immediately. But this does not happen when I run the solenoid test. Also, occasionally the feature lights work as intended, but it will switch back and forth between proper operation and improper operation. But for the most part, the feature lights stay mixed up.

#2 57 days ago

Sounds like it could be a connector issue. Have you re-pinned/replaced any connectors on the mpu, lamp driver, solenoid driver, or rectifier board? Are the boards original?

#3 57 days ago
Quoted from frunch:

Sounds like it could be a connector issue. Have you re-pinned/replaced any connectors on the mpu, solenoid driver, or rectifier board? Are the boards original?

I have already repinned a lot of stuff on the machine. All boards are original. I have replaced and repinned j2, j1, j3, j4 on the mpu, as well as all pins on the solenoid board. I have not recrimped all of those connectors however

#4 57 days ago
Quoted from frunch:

Sounds like it could be a connector issue. Have you re-pinned/replaced any connectors on the mpu, solenoid driver, or rectifier board? Are the boards original?

That would be my first guess too--maybe a couple of connector wires got swapped around? Or maybe there's a small solder bridge on header pins that were replaced or re-heated?

#5 57 days ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

That would be my first guess too--maybe a couple of connector wires got swapped around?

That's possible, but if they got swapped, then the machine wouldn't work occasionally as intended right? I'm just curious if it's an IC problem or not. Because when the solenoids had this mixup issue, it was at first occasional, then permanent. And replacing U11 fixed it

#6 57 days ago

Additionally, I have tested ALL test points on every board, and the voltages consistently come out to the correct values on my DMM

#7 57 days ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

That would be my first guess too--maybe a couple of connector wires got swapped around? Or maybe there's a small solder bridge on header pins that were replaced or re-heated?

Regarding the solder bridges, should I check the MPU again? Because I have resoldered all header pins pretty recently

#8 57 days ago

I'm thinking the wires are in the right spots on the connector, but a bad pin on either the lamp board or mpu board (there's a connector between those 2 boards) could cause the wrong signal to occasionally get sent and processed as the wrong lamp (in this case, the signal getting sent is turning on the special lamps)... For instance, say the signal between the mpu and lamp driver is supposed to be binary "0110" for the correct lamp, but the 3rd data pin is not making a good connection, so the mpu/lamp driver processes the signal as 0010 instead, which could potentially trigger another scr on the lamp driver instead. When the connection is making better contact, it may be receiving the proper signal and in turn activate the correct SCRs causing it to light the correct lamps. This is all based on a rudimentary understanding of this stuff, so please don't take this as gospel... Just what I'm thinking could possibly be happening.

#9 57 days ago
Quoted from frunch:

I'm thinking the wires are in the right spots on the connector, but a bad pin on either the lamp board or mpu board (there's a connector between those 2 boards) could cause the wrong signal to occasionally get sent and processed as the wrong lamp (in this case, the signal getting sent is turning on the special lamps)... For instance, say the signal between the mpu and lamp driver is supposed to be binary "0110" for the correct lamp, but the 3rd data pin is not making a good connection, so the mpu/lamp driver processes the signal as 0010 instead, which could potentially trigger another scr on the lamp driver instead. When the connection is making better contact, it may be receiving the proper signal and in turn activate the correct SCRs causing it to light the correct lamps. This is all based on a rudimentary understanding of this stuff, so please don't take this as gospel... Just what I'm thinking could possibly be happening.

Right, I understand how the 4 bit binary number is processed, as this was the issue with the solenoids. But the problem before was that the 4th bit was constantly outputting a high signal (not all of the time, but sometimes), and it turned out to be the U11 chip. So a 0111 would sometimes output a 1111 signal, and replacing the U11 chip fixed that. But let's say this fault was due to the chip and not the connection, what chip would it have to do with? And if it's the connection, then I'm assuming I should recrimp the connectors and not just repin them? I do need to repin the header pins on the light board still however.

#10 57 days ago

I'm also curious as to what may be causing the occasional game crash. It ONLY occurs RIGHT when a solenoid is fired, and the LED number displays will go dark when this happens, followed by the reboot sequence. And it's not always the same solenoid firing that causes it

#12 57 days ago

Couple possibilities here: the resets could be due to a weak 5v supply for the mpu. Sometimes a coil firing can be just enough to lower a weak 5v supply to the point it triggers a reset. Also make sure your tilt and slam tilt switches are properly adjusted as well.

As far as the lamp problem, it looks like the connectors i am referring to are J1 on the mpu and J4 on the lamp driver board. If male pins have already been replaced, i would also recommend be female connector pins as well.
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#13 57 days ago

My 1980 Bally Skateball schematics have a page of connector wire colors. This was so helpful in redoing the connectors and in trouble shooting the problem when I had two swapped around.

#14 56 days ago
Quoted from frunch:

Couple possibilities here: the resets could be due to a weak 5v supply for the mpu. Sometimes a coil firing can be just enough to lower a weak 5v supply to the point it triggers a reset. Also make sure your tilt and slam tilt switches are properly adjusted as well.
As far as the lamp problem, it looks like the connectors i am referring to are J1 on the mpu and J4 on the lamp driver board. If male pins have already been replaced, i would also recommend be female connector pins as well.
[quoted image][quoted image]

I resoldered the header pins on the J1 connector on the MPU. I used my dmm and found a small short between two connectors. That seems to have fixed the light issue! As for the resetting issue, TP5 reads 5.1-5.15 volts on the multimeter, even during game play. What else should I check for regarding the resetting issue?

#15 56 days ago

I also have a lot more work to do on this thing, as the fuse under the playfield keeps going out too, I'll keep y'all posted

#16 56 days ago

Have you done any work on (or replaced) the rectifier board and/or solenoid driver board?

If you have original connectors on both of them, i would start by re-pinning (or replacing) the rectifier board, new header pins and new female connectors.

The 2 smaller 0.100" connectors at the top-right of the solenoid driver often need to be re-pinned as well. There are also a couple suggested modifications to make on the solenoid driver to reinforce the ground and +5 volt connections at the board too.

There's also a big capacitor on the solenoid driver for the 5v circuit that may need to be replaced as well.

#17 56 days ago
Quoted from frunch:

Have you done any work on (or replaced) the rectifier board and/or solenoid driver board?
If you have original connectors on both of them, i would start by re-pinning (or replacing) the rectifier board, new header pins and new female connectors.
The 2 smaller 0.100" connectors at the top-right of the solenoid driver often need to be re-pinned as well. There are also a couple suggested modifications to make on the solenoid driver to reinforce the ground and +5 volt connections at the board too.
There's also a big capacitor on the solenoid driver for the 5v circuit that may need to be replaced as well.

I've actually replaced every capacitor, diode, mosfet, and most resistors on the solenoid board. That's the board I've done the most work on. I also have already repinned the solenoid board connectors as well recrimped and replaced all three of the rectifier board's connectors.

#18 56 days ago

However, I have not made any of the ground modifications yet on the board, I will look into doing that as well

#19 56 days ago

One other thing: it appears there is a switch on the same row as the tilt switch that uses a 0.5uf ceramic cap. If that cap is original, it could be the source of the intermittent resets too. I'm not convinced it's necessarily the culprit, but if that caps is original you can start by clipping a leg off it and see if that corrects the issue. If it does fix it, it's still recommended to replace it. Here's the row I'm talking about, note the cap on the last switch in the row, for the right pop bumper:

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