This pilot episode was pretty bland and boring overall. I am very concerned about the characters in this one, as I didn't find any of them to be interesting in any way. I will give it time to develop and see where it goes, but man, compare this pilot episode to the pilot of TWD (which is one of the best pilot episodes of any series I've ever seen) and it was an epic failure.

When the episode was over, I sure didn't think "oh man, I can't wait to see the next episode!"

Yes, I will. Like I said, I'm going to give it a chance to develop and see where it goes. But I'm sure not feeling any great anticipation for next weeks episode.

Me too.

Many of the characters on TWD's pilot episode were instantly interesting compared to what we saw on Fear TWD.

There is no comparison in my opinion. The pilot of TWD was superb. The build up of tension in that episode was fantastic. The way the story was being told was excellent. The cinematography was top notch. I wanted to learn more about the characters. It was directed by Frank Darabont (Shawshank Redemption, The Green Mile) and it showed.

Huh?

They had a run early on that must have stretched 20 minutes straight without a commercial.

Yes!

This episode was *much* better than the premier! It had everything that was lacking from the first episode. Real tension that was built gradually but at a steady pace. Some of the stuff that was happening was subtle. And watching the characters continue to learn what is really happening and how it is effecting them was well done. The way the daughter asked her mom to tell her what was happening, and how she completely ignored her as she couldn't get over the fact that she had just killed her co-worker with a fire extinguisher for example.

The way that the public was reacting to seeing cops repeatedly shoot "unarmed people", resulting in the start of riots and general chaos. The way the police and other agencies were not communicating anything about what was happening to the public. The brief shot of the police filling the trunk of their patrol car with jugs of water.

The kid that got his knife back. How does he know so much? Interesting character who I want to know more about.

So glad to see such a dramatic improvement!

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. Plenty of examples of minorities. Was the Barber Shop owner, including english subtitles when he was speaking spanish, not enough for you?

This line will probably be hilarious in hindsight: "You know how I feel about guns!"

Worst episode yet. Holy cow almost nothing happened until the last five minutes. 2 episodes left in the season. This series just isn't looking promising so far.

Apparently they also make way more interesting characters.

I gave up on Z-Nation...yet I agree with you. Since there are only 2 episodes of FTWD left, I will watch them so I can say that I gave the entire first season a fair shake (there have been a couple of decent episodes), but it's unlikely at this point that I will bother watching season 2.

As long as the viewership is high enough that they can sell advertising spots and make money, there will be a season 2. I think the ratings will stay high enough just based on the fact that this is a spinoff of the most popular show on TV right now. But if things don't change soon, the ratings will go down fast.

Not a single zombie in last nights episode...even when she went outside the fence.

...and that's exactly what me and my family are going to do as well, and I'm sure there are tons of others that will do the same.

I don't do that now.

I don't think TWD fans "whine relentlessly" at the hint of a favorite character dying off. In fact, since they know that one of the main/favorite characters can die at any time is one of the things that gives TWD so much drama, as you don't know what's going to happen.

It makes zero sense to make characters less likable just because they are going to kill them off. If you don't like the character, who the hell cares if they die? Make the character interesting or likable, and their death becomes much more impactful.

The biggest indicator that FTWD sucks is the fact that I couldn't possibly care less if any single character from the show dies. Well, maybe I would be just slightly bummed to see the barber die, as I actually think he's the most interesting character so far, but that's not saying much.

Of course the drama of seeing society crumble around them should be a huge part of the story. The problem is that they are doing a terrible job in demonstrating it! Very cliched representation of the military, for example, and like others have mentioned, the unrealistic lack of any real news or media coverage of what is happening. Also, the 9 week gap from last weeks episode to this weeks resulted in missing a huge amount of seeing the society crumble. It goes from a picture of the military coming in at the end of last weeks episode, to being fully contained within a fence in the next. I just feel like we went from the kid at the protest, seeing police officers shooting zombies, to being in a fenced off neighborhood was rather jarring.

And while we don't need to see a video game approach to mowing down a ton of zombies every week, the complete lack of even a single zombie was kind of stupid in my opinion.

Nailed it!

I agree with what you are saying in terms of what this scene showed, but I think it was poorly done. To see the daughter completely dressed up, including makeup and her hair done to perfection, trying dresses of a stranger on etc. just didn't make sense to me and seemed weird. The sexual tension between her and her step brother was also strange and out of place. I didn't like the scene at all.

-Now lets look at Dad: Completely ignorant and in denial that anything bad is really happening. There was a moment he thought things were getting bad in the first couple episodes, but the military blinded him and the community of what was going on that he conformed and just figured it'll pass. Thats why he had no reason to go gung ho violent like a lot of us wanted. Then, in this episode he has a gun pointed at a zombie and is told that its no longer human so kill it. And he almost does it...but then see's her name badge and makes it personal. Still, he cannot get a grip of reality, and doesnt believe there's any reason to kill this person 'or thing'. Then, he see's the troops raid a building of zombies and we get his perspective...he's freaked out hearing gun shots, and screams, and the cb radio. He begins to get out of the vehicle in dissaray, then a few soldiers come back and say the LT is dead, WE"RE OUTTA HERE! It was a big eye opening moment for the dad and he's starting to realize it.

I don't think he's beginning to realize much of anything. Which makes it stupid. See below.

Now Mom (girlfriend); she's a lot more hardcore. And the dad from a few episodes ago would have had no part in the torturing. But when he came back after seeing what he saw, he was 'sorta' ok with them torturing the dude for info.
All in all; we are very critical of the acting and writing but i think that portion is fine 'for the most part'. Its the direction that the director took it coupled with the budget that makes it a little more lackluster. This past episode made me a little excited to finally say, "i cant wait to see what happens next". Where all the other episodes i was thinking "i cant wait til its over".

I agree that the mother is much, much tougher than her husband. *She* is the one who, when the barber was breaking down crying, hoping that his daughter would understand and/or forgive him for torturing the army officer, simply asked him "did you get the information that we need?" Stone cold!

By complete contrast, I have to disagree with your statement that her husband was "sort of ok" with them torturing him for info. Not at all. His statement to his wife was something like "please tell me that you had no part in this" or "please tell me that you didn't know about this." I got the impression that he was completely against it, and hasn't come to realize or accept much of anything, despite being smacked in the face with it. My guess is that he is going to be one of the first ones to get killed off. I hope.

The new character (the black guy who "bought" the druggie) is the most interesting character we've seen yet.

Overall, this episode was better than last weeks...but that's not saying much. Overall, the acting really is quite poor in my opinion. All four of the main characters are below average actors. I still wouldn't feel much empathy for any of them, and still couldn't care less if any one of them dies.

I agree with all of this. Best episode of the series so far, yet that isn't saying much and there was still plenty to criticize.

The reason it was the best episode is because at least there were finally situations that the characters were in that created some tension and drama throughout the episode. We really didn't see much of that previously.

But man, lots of stupid stuff still, like the ridiculous example of the pacifist dad that you mentioned nearly killing the soldier with his bare hands. And the portrayal of the military continues to be pretty ridiculous and stereotypical of many shows. They are in the middle of a huge horde of zombies, running for their lives, but one of the soldiers has time to get sexual with the daughter and asks her if she's sure she doesn't want to go with him?

I'm surprised that there wasn't some type of cliff hanger ending that would try to hook people into wanting to watch next seasons first episode. All we are left with is them possibly getting ready to get on the boat with Strand.

Couldn't agree more.

There was actually tons of potential with FTWD to go many different routes and to make the series very distinct from TWD. They could have easily spent at least a couple of seasons concentrating just on the early stages of the infection and given us more details of the collapse of civilization. Instead, it felt like we got a couple of episodes about it then BAM virtually everything has gone to shit, and we are in the same world, at the same time, as TWD, just in a different part of the world.

The Barn rehash is a great example of how weak the writers for FTWD are. Lazy. Uncreative.

Because it doesn't.

Sure, but not all zombie soap operas are created equally, as is clearly the case here.

Exactly. The whole episode was full of dumb shit like that.

Another example:

Really boring, bad episode.

How lame are the people who film the show to not realize this? Blatantly obvious, all 3 of us watching tonight said the same thing.

I was thinking to myself one real problem with the first two episodes was a complete lack of suspense/drama...then it started raining zombies. lol

Better than last weeks episode for sure.

Agreed, it's definitely been a missed opportunity for sure.

I am curious how they will deal with the character who apparently got bit and didn't turn though. He could be key to a cure.

I still think it was a big mistake the way that the ended last season with the cliffhanger as to who Negan killed. If you really wanted to know the answer, you can find it. That's one of the pitfalls to doing it the way that they did.

They should have just shown who Negan killed. Leave us with that. It would have had more impact then than it will now.

Well said.

I knew who the two characters were that were going to die too, and also thought that Rick was going to lose a hand.

And while I still say that the death of Glenn and Abraham would have had a bigger impact if they did it during the season finale last year (since we would not have seen it coming) it is amazing how good of a job they did in this episode, even knowing what was coming..

I actually felt sick by the end.

This season has the potential to be the most depressing yet in light of how they've laid the table. How long will they be providing for Negan before getting their revenge?

Bingo!

Glenn was living on borrowed time to say the least. That dumpster save scene still pisses me off to this day.

Yeah, cuz killing Abraham and Glenn by bashing their skulls into oblivion didn't quite do it.

He saved Carl's arm for psychological reasons, as part of getting them to work for Negan (or as Negan put it, to get Rick to stop giving him "that look")

Overall I did not think that this was a good episode. I thought the "torture" of Darryl was just ridiculously weak and did not come close to measuring up to what we saw from Negan in episode one. Music? Really? And even Negan's direct discussion with Darryl, while waving Lucille in his face, was weak and completely lacking in drama. I guess part of the reason is that when you have already killed two major characters just 2 short episodes ago, you knew there was zero chance that Negan was going to bash Darryl's head in.

And the stuff with Dwight and Negan taking his wife etc. just seemed too contrived, and I'm also having a hard time buying into the fact that apparently pretty much everyone actually hates Negan (including his right hand man) but they are all too stupid to realize that if they all opposed him he would have no power.

I liked week 2's episode far more than this one.

Yes, but never once did I even come close to feeling sorry for Daryl. I never felt that he was going through hell or being tortured. These techniques just didn't measure up to Negan's way of doing things. Weak.

If anything Daryl deserves more punishment for killing Glenn.

Yeah, you just helped make my point. Iron to the face is much more Negan's style than playing music. The iron to the face appears to have worked, at least for now, as Dwight and Negan "are cool" even though Negan is screwing Dwight's wife.

Wow. Complete opposite for me!

I was thinking very early on into the episode that Negan is getting old REAL fast. He talks the exact same way, with the same cadence, all the time. You can pretty much guess what he's going to say before he says it. He's already a caricature of himself. Not good. I don't even fear him anymore. He's actually turning into one of the weaker main "bad guys" they've had to deal with in terms of believability. The Governor was 20 times more interesting than Negan so far.

And this episode just got off to a really bad start for me when you see Negan arrive at the gate, with his silhouette showing on the fence holding Lucille. Rosita (and the other guy) were there in the car....WITH GUNS. Why not shoot Negan dead right then and there? Yeah, they still have Darrell, but so what? With Negan dead, I don't know that his followers would necessarily kill Darrell as it would just lead to more of them dying as well.

I am usually capable of suspending a lot of disbelief for this show but for some reason I couldn't get past that one.

I agree with all of this...but more importantly, glad to see that you survived the earthquakes RD!

Same here, and like I said, I am normally very willing to suspend my disbelief for this show. You have to. But when it gets to the point where it is so obvious, and not even consistent with what we've been taught about the characters, it's hard not to be disappointed. That's what happened in this episode.

As stated by others:

Speaking for myself, it isn't a matter of whether The Governor "is more evil than Negan", it's a matter of him (The Governor) being a much better written and developed (and believable) character. His followers had reason/logic to follow him, even if misguided. I don't see that same reason/logic for Negan's followers.

The Zombies were very much a threat just last season. Remember Rick and company trying to protect Alexandria from the largest herd of walkers we've ever seen on the show?

The human element is always going to be the driving force of the story, but I do agree that the walkers should not be forgotten as a major threat by the writers, and so far this season, they have been. But the season is young.

Wow, not a single post about last weeks episode?

Can't say I'm surprised. The show continues it's downward spiral this season. Ugh.

And it's showing up in the ratings:

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/walking-dead-ratings-fall-to-lowest-in-years-190236582.html

Finally got around to watching this latest episode.

Ugh.

An entire episode dedicated to Tara? I forgot that she was even missing from recent episodes. This was another throw away episode with virtually nothing memorable about it (other than the obvious set up at the end about revealing that they exist and have guns, which we know Tara will reveal eventually)

The downward spiral for this season continues, and after this one, it's almost getting painful to watch.

Based on what we've seen this season, TWD is no better than FTWD.

I thought last season (6) was a very good one for TWD.

Why are we having *any* discussion about the comics in this thread?

It's ridiculous to be having a debate about whether certain discussions about the comics constitute a "spoiler" since the solution is so easy: no discussion about the comics should be allowed in this thread whatsoever. Period. The word "comic" should be banned from the thread.

There is another thread, mentioned above, where people can go if they want to discuss the comics.

I already know of a couple of people who have had to drain this thread because of the boobs who keep talking about the comics.

Just like your post.

Which is fine, but the problem is that all of these set-up/building up a story episodes have been boring and unmemorable. The coming big payoff at the end isn't going to do much to remedy the boring ride we had to endure to get there.

I am currently watching the last season of GOT on blu-ray. Very similar story structure there (lots of different groups), but the story telling is so much better in GOT it isn't funny. Plenty of episodes in GOT so far have not had a lot of action or big surprises either, other than the premiere episode, just like TWD. Better writing and acting can go a long way.

As someone else mentioned earlier, TWD needs to get back to using the writers that made the show what it was.

I've got to start watching Westworld. Will have to wait until it streams or is released on blu-ray though.

Couldn't agree more RD!

In fact, even with me doing GOT on Blu-ray, I find myself forgetting what happened during the previous season because I had to wait so long between seasons being released.

It was *much* better when I first got hooked on both TWD and GOT as they were both already several seasons along, so I could watch an episode every other night or so, or even more, if I wanted.

Now that I am caught up, I obviously can't do that anymore.

Same thing for me on Breaking Bad. I didn't start watching that show until it was already in it's 4th season. Being able to watch it regularly was a huge bonus.

But out of all of them, GOT is the one that is hardest to spread out because like you said, it is very easy to forget all that has happened with each of the characters (and "houses") between seasons. The story line is so deep and nuanced, it needs to be watched regularly without big gaps.

I kept thinking to myself "ok, this episode seems quite a bit better than what we've been seeing, I just have to put the stupid scene of Coral having a super easy shot to kill Negan with Lucille out of my mind."

Sadly, I couldn't. That stupid scene is what I remember most from the (1 1/2 hour long) episode.

Ugh.

A "bit" campy?

Please. Z Nation is so over the top campy that I had to force myself to watch 5 episodes in order to "give it a chance" and frankly I regret watching that many episodes. Ugh.

Did you watch last season? It was the best season in years. If you did watch last season and didn't like it and gave up on it, I don't see how you would ever be interested in watching it again. If you missed last season and you liked TWD previously, you really missed out IMO.

I see I'm not alone in this since the ratings are spiraling downward.

This season has been a disappointment so far, especially compared to last season.

I wonder if AMC would go back to Frank Darabont and ask him to save it.

Highly unlikely. That relationship ended on a really bad note. One reason is Darabont wanted more money for production, and AMC wouldn't give it to him. With ratings going down, it's unlikely that AMC would start spending more money on the show. Too bad, because the show has never really had quite the same feel to it once Darabont was gone (which was early on).

You say that like that's something new to the show. It's not. The show has never been just about the zombies. The term "walking dead" doesn't even refer to the zombies. The show is about how humanity acts when faced with the (zombie) apocalypse. If the human interaction is what you define as "soap opera nonsense" I have a hard time understanding how you *ever* liked the show.

I disagree.

Right from the pilot episode they had created the story line where Shane and Lori thought that Rick was dead, resulting in the two of them getting together (I think the second episode is the one where they were having sex in the woods) despite the fact that Shane was Rick's partner and friend. These kind of "soap opera" plot lines have played a big role right from the start.

Carol is capable of much more than that.

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Bingo!

What a great episode! Amazing what some decent writing can do.

And...most epic mass Walker kill evar!!!

Really?

Of all the unrealistic scenes that we've had in this series, this one was as realistic as anything we should expect at this point.

No reason that the cars wouldn't start or not have gas in them, as they had explained that the Saviors had recently moved them there.

Who said that it did?

If the Saviors were able to start those cars and get them moved to that spot, why wouldn't they start up for Rick?

Again, of all things to criticize...

Agreed. The Dune type group was a bit jarring.

I liked the episode overall though. Partly because no Coral, but for me, no Negan was almost as much of a plus!

It sure was.

But let's not forget about the equally terrible CGI of the stupid tiger.

Other than the season premiere and possibly the mid season finale, every episode this season has been a filler setup episode, and this one was no exception. I thought that as filler setup episodes go this season, this one was not bad.

You called it several weeks prior!

Seriously? There was almost zero chance that Negan was going to be killed in the season finale. There was not enough buildup for that to happen, and I always assumed that they would take a similar story arc that they used with The Governor, who also lasted a full season and half.

Negan will be dead by the middle of next season.

I was *hoping* he would be dead by the end of this season because I just can't stand his character. It's really bad. Annoying. And just not believable. The way he talks is beyond stupid. The Governor was 10 times better. We don't know shit about Negan and his background, or what made him the way he is. Complete opposite of The Governor, who was a much more complex and interesting character.

This whole season was a big letdown. Every episode will filler/setup. I *did* like how they dealt with Sasha's death in the finale....but good grief, when Ezekiel showed up with the Tiger and was yelling some nonsense was about the corniest thing I've seen yet. It was laughable.

I thought last season was really good. This year? It went downhill after the first episode, and it went downhill fast, and never really recovered.

lol

That would be suicide for the show.

I thought it was the best part of the entire episode.

Agreed. I was sick of Negan after 3 episodes.

I couldn't agree more with this! That episode did give more of a feel of the first season or two.

Agreed, the finale was beyond terrible. I was pissed that Rick let Negan survive. Not only because it's stupid as far as the story itself, but personally I have found Negan to be one of the most annoying characters ever put on the show.

People find this interesting/funny/amusing?

I much prefer a villain that is more complex and interesting when it comes to his character and what makes him tick (like the Governor).

DumbASS writing is more like it.

"Judith. Judith Grimes."

And with that, this show has certainly officially jumped the shark, if it hadn't already.

Holy crap, what a disaster of an episode. We were all played. Again.

We did see Herschel, which was cool, especially in light of the actor having passed recently. But no Glenn. No Abraham. No Lori. But we got to see Sasha! You know, that character that was never particularly close to Rick. So yeah, it made perfect sense to have Sasha in one of his dreams/flashbacks.

How'd that work out for ya?

Nailed it.

I wish!

Yep. Rick's "final episode" was nothing more than a desperate money grab. TWD's ratings are the lowest they've been since the series first started. They are just trying to milk every last bit out of it before it dies a horrible death.

Yep.

I agree, but I never thought the show would go on without him either.

Trying to think of how many of the original characters from the first season are left? Daryl and Carol? Don't know if Morgan counts?

All I know is that there are fewer characters that I am interested in, and even those that I do care about are less interesting since most of the characters that they played off of are dead.

We are at the point in this franchise where we are watching it die a slow and painful death.

I question whether he counts because it doesn't appear that he will be showing up much anymore. I know they did some kind of crossover with FTWD but I am clueless as to what happened with that since I don't watch FTWD. If his character is going to continue to be on TWD, then he obviously counts.

So even including Morgan, there are only 3 characters left from season 1.

I could have written this myself, exactly how I feel.

Exactly. Such an obvious setup.

And having Negan "imprisoned" so close to the open where he can freely talk to Judith is

The viewers have spoken.

By not viewing.

https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/walking-dead-season-9-midseason-finale-ratings-1203037010/

The midseason finale had a viewership that was 1/3 of that for Season 5. And the numbers were significantly lower than last years midseason finale, which was already the lowest rated one to that point (a 2.0 rating vs 3.4 last year, which is a decline of 42%).

Fans of this show are leaving in droves.

But AMC doesn't give a shit? Uh, ok.

I have semi abandoned it. I stopped watching halfway through the prior episode out of sheer boredom, and I have not watched the mid season finale yet.

#1 is not #1. There are obviously different levels of #1. Do you seriously think that advertisers pay as much for a commercial when the rating is a 2.0 compared to a 7.6 rating? That is a viewership of 5.1 million vs 14.8 million. Just a tad more than 1/3 of the peak viewership.

Those low ratings equate to less money in AMC's pocket. So it seems pretty obviously that they do care, despite your prior comment.