Hi, just want to pick some brains in here and see if my logic is sound before I dive in bending motor switches. I'm working on a Gottlieb "Fast Draw" and I'm down to my last problem. This game has 3 rollovers (A, B and C) and 2 kickout holes near the top of the pf. If you haven't rolled over A, B or C and you land in a kickout hole, you're supposed to get 1,000 pts. You get an extra thousand pts for every rollover you've activated, so you could get a max score of 4,000 pts if you've gotten all the rollovers and land in the kickout hole. My problem is that the kickout hole is giving me 2,000 pts when I've gotten no rollovers (should be 1,000 pts). Then sometimes it's giving me 3,000 when I get the first rollover (depending in which one it is - if I roll over the A first, then it scores normally from there on out, which I know is a clue). So basically, I'm getting an extra 1,000 pts with no rollovers, and sometimes an extra 1,000 depending in which rollovers I've hit.

I've attached a schematic snippet of the circuit involved. I've also redrawn it and attached that with the relevant score motor switch sequences from the chart and the circuit simplified so you don't have to go looking for which switch does what. There's a summary of what pulses should make it through the gauntlet of switches when each rollover or combinations are hit.

Anyway, if you have the patience to read through that, first - thank you, and second, after listening carefully, what I think I'm hearing when I play with the machine is the 2 pulses that are getting through when no rollovers have been activated are pulse 1 and pulse 4. If I'm understanding the circuit logic correctly, then that leads me to think that Motor switch 1B is not opening at the correct time, and so pulse 4 is making it through when it shouldn't. I also noticed that when A is the first rollover activated, that the scoring is correct from that point on, that is, 2,000 pts when A is rolled over, and an extra thousand for each additional rollover. Which again, makes me think 1B is the culprit.

I guess I'm looking for verification of my reasoning before I go in there to bend motor switches - some of them are a pain to get to, so if I could reason my way to the correct switch for a change and just do it once, that would be great! Everything else on the machine is working correctly.

Sorry about the length of this and thanks in advance if you see any problems with my thinking on this. If it looks good, I'll get into the score motor next time I get to the machine and start bending like Beckham.
kickout hole circuit (resized).JPGkickout hole summary (resized).jpg

Yes Beemus - by the time you get to having rolled over all the rollovers, the total bonus is always 4,000 pts - which tell me that switch 2C is working correctly and that the switches for the A B C rollovers (actually 1B, 2B and 3B switches on the real schematic) are working correctly.

Hi Sudsy,
Thanks for the input. Yeah, the 1B switch looks dead center on that 4th pulse - but I've worked on a couple Quick/Fast Draws before, and they seem to be very sensitive to switch timing. I've bent switches or those formed pieces they ride on on the score motor just a millimeter or two, and that's fixed problems. So I'm definitely leaning towards Motor 1B. Some of the tabs on 1B are soldered to tabs on 1C with a short wire, so it'll be a little bit of a pain to get to - that's why I'd like to make sure I'm headed for the correct switch.

I've been redrawing some (mostly) Gottlieb schematics in Photoshop - I'm older and it's easier to not mistake Q's and O's - that sort of thing. If I had it to do over, I would probably learn Illustrator and do it all in vectors, but what'cha gonna do? I make the images large enough that scaling hasn't been a problem, and I'm comfortable in Photoshop. Message me here at pinside.

Thanks for chiming in guys:
DaMoib - I did look at that switch on 1B because it was so easy to get to (it's on a bank attached to the underside of the pf and swings down for easy access!). I cleaned the contacts, made sure they were connected firmly to the leafs, visually inspected for shorts, and gapped the switch - so I'm pretty sure that one's good. But theoretically, yes, that would have the same effect, I think.

MarkG - Thanks Mark - I did look at the switch dogs and they are in the proper position according to the sequence chart. I'm guessing a slight bend in the switch on 1B or the form that it rides on will do it - I'll know more when I look at the switch.

sudsy7 - It's one of my favorite games as well! It's great to play against other people too because of that triple bonus you can get on the last ball - you're never out of it. I did a complete repaint of the playfield on this one and cleared it - it looks good! I loves me some '70s Gottliebs! Redrawing the schematics does require patience, more than anything else. Luckily, DaMoib proofs them for me and catches all my mistakes. I'd LOVE to do an interactive schematic just the way you describe it! I don't have the technical knowledge to do it, don't know what kind of program that would require, but if it's possible, that would be an awesome learning tool....activate a relay, and watch what effect it has on the rest of the circuit...that would be wayyy cool! Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I will get it going.

Thanks guys - it sounds like I have a plan. I'll let you know what happens tomorrow.

Got in there and bent Motor switch 1B - opened the leafs just slightly, and that did it! It's scoring correctly now. Thank you, gentlemen, for looking over my shoulder! Those switches are touchy on this game!

I know if someone around here is gonna make it happen, it's gonna be you, Mark.