i'm guessing it is the score reel switches on the 10's reel on player 1...

the 50 pt relay has no way of "knowing" that it is causing a "need" for the 100 pt reel to advance... all it does is advance the 10 pt reel 5 times*...

* actually, it fires the 50 pt relay 5 times, which subsequently fires the 10 pt relay once for each pulse...

Chris, I don't have the schematic, but wouldn't the 50 point relay just close and the score motor pulses the 10 point relay 5 times? The score motor has to turn for 50 points, it doesn't for 10. I would think there has to be a switch on the 50 point relay that starts the motor running.

yea, it does have to turn for the 50 pts (vs. 10)... i don't have that specific schematic, but what "should" happen is that an action that requires 50 points to be scored will...

- fire the score motor
- lock in the 50 point relay (via the score motor)
- lock out the rest of the pf actions that require the score motor...
- complete a circuit to the 10 point relay (via the 50 point relay being locked in)...
- fire (with the impulse cam) the 10 point relay 5 times (via the 50 point relay)...
- complete a score motor "revolution"...
- drop out power to the 50 point relay...
- restore power to rest of pf actions...

so yea, in the end, it's firing the 10 point relay, but it is doing it via the 50 point relay... i shoulda been more clear about that in my initial post...

Yeah, I didn't think that the 50 point relay would actually pulse, just would lock in.

My theory:
If the score motor switch that activates the 10 point relay is not sending a strong pulse, it might not register enough the carry over the 100 pt. reel. Regardless, I would check all switches in that 50 point circuit for proper gap, and they are clean/making good contact. If you are saying it only happens on player 1, then my theory is bunk, since it would also cause the same effect for players 2,3, and 4. So......go back to the player 1 score reels as Chris was talking about...... I would focus on that carry over switch on the 10 pt. reel.

Since it's only on the Player 1 reel, then to me that still suggests the problem is most likely there, despite the observation that it apparently works with singular 10pts in rapid succession. The 50pt scoring is produced by the timing and mechanics of the game; how is the equivalent rapid firing of the 10pt produced?

The 100's reel is actually activated by the 100pt relay (M). To have the rollover from the 10s work, there are several switches that all need to be closed within the timing window. M is activated by having:
- the 9th position switch on the 10's reel closed,
- the EOS switch on the 10's reel closed, and
- a switch on N closed.

Then when M activates, a switch closing there is what finally increments the 100s reel.

There are separate switches on M for each player's 100s reel.

Since it sounds like it does work at least some of the time, then that further suggests timing, or maybe a loose connection (or even a loose contact point).

My guess though would be the combo of the 9th position switch and EOS switch on the Player 1 10's reel. They both need to be closed while N is still active (and switch there closed) in order to activate M; if one opens too soon or closes too late, then the pulse can be missed. Manually activating N quickly doesn't quite simulate the effect of it being activated by the score motor pulse.

As another diagnostic, can also jumper the Player 2 100's reel over to Player 1 and then see if it increments correctly on 50points scored rolling over on Player 2 (both 100's reels should increment in parallel). If it does, then that further confirms the issue rests with the Player 1 10s reel. Other jumper combos can be used to isolate as well.

Just go from coil to coil; Player 2 100's reel coil to Player 1 100's coil. When the Player 2 100's coil gets a signal, then so will Player 1. But don't jumper it until you're ready to score points on Player 2 (i.e., after reset, after Player 1 ball 1).

sorry, on the colored wires, not the black.

It's not the 0 position switch you want to make sure is good it's the 9 position switch on the 10s reel. That, and a switch on the 10 point relay that, together with the 9 position switch, will send power to the 100 point relay to activate the 100 point reel.

Like EMs said, revisit the 10 point relay as there is a switch there that contributes to this equation.

Suspect the 9 position switch on the player one 10s score reel. Even if it is making contact, clean the switch so you've got good conductivity. Also, clean and gap the switch on the score motor that pulses the score reel. It seems feasible you may have mediocre connections in both of these switches, and the combination is causing your issue.

I went through something similar on my Top Score; it was a pain in the dick to track down, because it was two mediocre connections being made instead of a single switch out of adjustment.

Ive got a quick draw machine when i first got it
1st player no probs 2nd player score was jumping
it was the 9 position switch took the reals apart gave
Them a good clean and a little bit of lube
On the metal parts working good

this is what I used photo.JPG