(Topic ID: 66172)

F14 Tomcat Owners Club Fans Also Welcome.


By Hellfire

6 years ago



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  • Latest reply 22 hours ago by Mr_Outlane
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19 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 4577 posts in this topic. You are on page 91 of 92.
#4501 59 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

You need to test the mosfets for the 50 volt coils, coils with the purple/yellow power wire.

Grumpy, as always, you are my hero.

#4502 59 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

You need to test the mosfets for the 50 volt coils, coils with the purple/yellow power wire.

Thanks Grumpy. Board is out on the bench.

I'm unfamiliar with testing MOSFET transistors. They arent the same as the Darlington Tip102 that I'm used to. Do you have a recommended way of testing these?

Thanks.

1595614035470606105302603647479 (resized).jpg
#4503 59 days ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

Thanks Grumpy. Board is out on the bench.
I'm unfamiliar with testing MOSFET transistors. They arent the same as the Darlington Tip102 that I'm used to. Do you have a recommended way of testing these?
Thanks.
[quoted image]

Since you're just looking for a shorted one testing is relatively easy, put the red lead on the Drain (D) and the black on the Source (s), it should read essentially open (very high ohms), if it reads near 0 it's shorted.

#4504 58 days ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

Since you're just looking for a shorted one testing is relatively easy, put the red lead on the Drain (D) and the black on the Source (s), it should read essentially open (very high ohms), if it reads near 0 it's shorted.

I'm gonna guess Rottendog used different Q numbers than the manual to label their transistors?

I have 2 shorted transistors (Q1 and Q12) out of all of the 13N10L on this board.

Q1 has .5 K Ohms
Q12 has 0.001 ohms

All of the rest read about 11 K Ohms.

Going to order a handful of these for the future.

#4505 58 days ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

I'm gonna guess Rottendog used different Q numbers than the manual to label their transistors?
I have 2 shorted transistors (Q1 and Q12) out of all of the 13N10L on this board.
Q1 has .5 K Ohms
Q12 has 0.001 ohms
All of the rest read about 11 K Ohms.
Going to order a handful of these for the future.

I don't know those Rottendog boards at all other than looking at them occasionally as a potential replacement but seeing as how the same board can be used in so many games and even in Data East it appears, I'm sure they are different. I looked at the website and saw the "Schematics" tab but there is absolutely nothing there, rather strange. I'd guess the fastest way to map the drivers to their respective coils would be to beep them out to the connector for all the returns to the board. My advice on testing them just came from experience testing Mosfets in general, good luck!

#4506 58 days ago

Q-1 is fine, the 500 ohms is the flipper relay coil your reading. Q-12 is bad and controls the upper diverter coil special solenoid #5.

#4507 58 days ago

Grumpy is the King of f14

#4508 58 days ago
Quoted from Milltown:

Grumpy is the King

FTFY

Grumpy seems to always have some useful info to pitch in, especially when it comes to Sys11 games. I/we are quick to tell him how much we appreciate him, because he's quick to help us whenever we need it. Kinda like reading Vid's guides on things..unbelievable resource to the community that would have had NONE of this available in the olden days. We have it so easy lol

#4509 57 days ago

Help please?

I have finally gotten my F14 up and running after buying it as a project a little over a year ago. But unfortunately i encountered a problem..

A couple of days ago, when finished with it, I played 7-8 games on it, and then turned it off. At that point i thought i smelled something funny coming from the machine, but was unable to pinpoint it. But as everything was working, I thought it was probably just dusty old electronics "settling in". Then yesterday, when i wanted to play it again, i noticed the upper right flipper was barely moving. When inspecting it, it was obvious that the coil had been quite warm, and the (brand new) sleeve was extremely tight, stopping the plunger from going into the coil. So the funny smell from yesterday was obviously the coil getting warm.

I changed the coil and sleeve, and tried turning it on again, expecting the problem to still be present. And it was. After flipping a little on it (a minute or two), the upper right coil was clearly beginning to get hot, where as the rest of the coils were not.

So the question is, where do i start? As everything is actually "working", could it be a leaky transistor? I checked that the EOS is adjusted properly, and opens when the coil activates. And the flipper also only activates when pressing the left cabinet flipper button all the way in.

My main experience is with WPC machines, so i am having a little problem reading the F14 diagram. If you think i need to check the driver transistor, could you please point me in the right direction, if possible?

THANKS!

#4510 57 days ago
Quoted from Phantasize:

Help please?
I have finally gotten my F14 up and running after buying it as a project a little over a year ago. But unfortunately i encountered a problem..
A couple of days ago, when finished with it, I played 7-8 games on it, and then turned it off. At that point i thought i smelled something funny coming from the machine, but was unable to pinpoint it. But as everything was working, I thought it was probably just dusty old electronics "settling in". Then yesterday, when i wanted to play it again, i noticed the upper right flipper was barely moving. When inspecting it, it was obvious that the coil had been quite warm, and the (brand new) sleeve was extremely tight, stopping the plunger from going into the coil. So the funny smell from yesterday was obviously the coil getting warm.
I changed the coil and sleeve, and tried turning it on again, expecting the problem to still be present. And it was. After flipping a little on it (a minute or two), the upper right coil was clearly beginning to get hot, where as the rest of the coils were not.
So the question is, where do i start? As everything is actually "working", could it be a leaky transistor? I checked that the EOS is adjusted properly, and opens when the coil activates. And the flipper also only activates when pressing the left cabinet flipper button all the way in.
My main experience is with WPC machines, so i am having a little problem reading the F14 diagram. If you think i need to check the driver transistor, could you please point me in the right direction, if possible?
THANKS!

The flippers in F14 are not CPU controlled so there isn't a driver transistor for them, they are simply controlled by the cabinet flipper buttons and the EOS switch. It sounds like they are working correctly in game other than getting too hot. Is is the proper coil? Be sure it's wired correctly, though if it weren't I'd expect it not to work properly but be absolutely sure that no voltage exists across the low impedence (flip) side when the flipper is fully extended. I suspect a bad or mis-adjusted EOS switch.

#4511 57 days ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

The flippers in F14 are not CPU controlled so there isn't a driver transistor for them, they are simply controlled by the cabinet flipper buttons and the EOS switch. It sounds like they are working correctly in game other than getting too hot. Is is the proper coil? Be sure it's wired correctly, though if it weren't I'd expect it not to work properly but be absolutely sure that no voltage exists across the low impedence (flip) side when the flipper is fully extended. I suspect a bad or mis-adjusted EOS switch.

Thank you very much for your reply. A had a feeling they weren't CPU controlled when i looked at the diagram. Based on that, i dont see how it could be anything else other than the EOS. I just checked it again, and perhaps the gap was just too small. It seemed to open fully, but now im a little in doubt. I re-adjusted the EOS, and played a couple of games. And it definitely seems better now. After playing 2 full games, all 4 flipper coils seemed to be just about the same temperature.

On another note, i have a suspicion that all of my coils are a little weak. Not just the flippers coils, but also the pop bumber, slingshots and so on. I assume they are all driven by the same voltage? Is there a test point i can easily check if i have the correct coil voltage?

#4512 57 days ago

Thought that I would ask here also, but I am looking to find an alphanumeric display. I have a cracked display that I need to replace.

1 week later
#4513 50 days ago

So i had a plunger link break on upper flipper and I am on Marcos web page and under the f14 section it lists 2. Can anyone help with which one I need. I want to replace it and get a couple of spares.

#4514 50 days ago

Might be time to just get a flipper rebuild kit and do it up right if the plunger link is breaking. Pretty sure the one you want is this one tho

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-10656

#4515 49 days ago

Anyone ever had an issue with coil test mode firing the wrong coils? During game they all are firing correctly but during coil test a few of them aren't matching up with what the display reads.

During switch test, everything is matching up as they should...

#4516 46 days ago

Did a little bit more investigation today. I think we have a board problem. When I put Josh's RD in my game these are my results.

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#4517 44 days ago

after many hours of work i want to show you my beautiful F-14

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#4518 44 days ago
Quoted from fluxgold:

after many hours of work i want to show you my beautiful F-14
[quoted image]

Wow!

#4519 44 days ago
Quoted from fluxgold:

after many hours of work i want to show you my beautiful F-14
[quoted image]

Nice

#4520 44 days ago
Quoted from fluxgold:

after many hours of work i want to show you my beautiful F-14
[quoted image]

Are those Freddy’s plastics. Any overhead shots?

#4521 44 days ago

no these are from pinball protectors. I just told them which colours i want and then i got it from them.

i was able to remove the mylar without destroying anything after that i used a pf protector

had to fix many small issues on that pinball.

i will send more pictures:

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#4522 41 days ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

Anyone ever had an issue with coil test mode firing the wrong coils? During game they all are firing correctly but during coil test a few of them aren't matching up with what the display reads.

Update: In case anyone has this problem in the future. The Rottendog board I was using had a set of dip switches labeled DE on one side and Will on the other side. For whatever reason they seem to be backwards. They need to be pressed towards the DE side in Williams games. Problem solved.

**Cant delete wrong pictures from mobile, GO CHIEFS!!!

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#4523 41 days ago
Quoted from fluxgold:

no these are from pinball protectors. I just told them which colours i want and then i got it from them.
i was able to remove the mylar without destroying anything after that i used a pf protector
had to fix many small issues on that pinball.
i will send more pictures:
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I like the colored protectors man. Nice. I’m gonna check that out.

#4524 40 days ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

Update: In case anyone has this problem in the future. The Rottendog board I was using had a set of dip switches labeled DE on one side and Will on the other side. For whatever reason they seem to be backwards. They need to be pressed towards the DE side in Williams games. Problem solved.
**Cant delete wrong pictures from mobile, GO CHIEFS!!!
[quoted image][quoted image]

LOL wrong pic. Love it.

Good to note on the Rottendog board....weird, but useful info.

1 week later
#4525 29 days ago

Should the slings and pop be pretty strong?? I've rebuilt the pop, but it is much weaker than my Grand Prix pops (which I also rebuilt). Slings also seem weaker than they should be, and are definity weaker than my other pins. They seem mechanically fine though. Smooth movement, no binding. Just weak. Is there somewhere I should test to ensure they are getting enough power? Are f14 pops and slings weaker than most?

#4526 29 days ago

The F-14 uses a weaker coil on the pop bumper. I read somewhere that they used the weaker coil due to the close proximity of the target switch, which was getting bent with a stronger coil. As far as the slings, mine seem fine for the game play.

#4527 28 days ago
Quoted from Brewchap:

The F-14 uses a weaker coil on the pop bumper. I read somewhere that they used the weaker coil due to the close proximity of the target switch, which was getting bent with a stronger coil. As far as the slings, mine seem fine for the game play.

Thanks, that makes sense!

#4528 28 days ago
Quoted from Thunder90:

Are f14 pops and slings weaker than most?

Did you replace the activation switches and the cap/resistor combo?

Quoted from Brewchap:

The F-14 uses a weaker coil on the pop bumper. I read somewhere that they used the weaker coil due to the close proximity of the target switch, which was getting bent with a stronger coil.

Not according to the manual they didn't - it's a 23-800 just like all the other common coils of the time. If anything the close flippers that are up there are what's going to hammer the standups. Just looked to see if they did the weaker coils for the flippers, and nope, 11630's standard strength. You could run the EOS gap wider to weaken it if you wanted. My machine was pretty well used when I got it and none of the standups are mashed.

They did have an issue with the extra flashers getting smashed though which is why they were removed.

#4529 28 days ago
Quoted from slochar:They did have an issue with the extra flashers getting smashed though which is why they were removed.

That makes more sense. Thank you!

#4530 28 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Did you replace the activation switches and the cap/resistor combo?

Not according to the manual they didn't - it's a 23-800 just like all the other common coils of the time. If anything the close flippers that are up there are what's going to hammer the standups. Just looked to see if they did the weaker coils for the flippers, and nope, 11630's standard strength. You could run the EOS gap wider to weaken it if you wanted. My machine was pretty well used when I got it and none of the standups are mashed.
They did have an issue with the extra flashers getting smashed though which is why they were removed.

Hm interesting. Now I need to figure out why this pop is weak. I rebuilt the f14 pop exactly like I did my Grand Prix, and the GP is way stronger. I'll have to see if it's just a bigger coil or what, but my F14 pop just seems lazy and not as exciting as it could be

#4531 28 days ago

Anyone know where I can find the steel inlane ball guides? Mine are BEAT and cause massive flipper hop that I cannot fix with adjustment

#4532 28 days ago
Quoted from Thunder90:

Anyone know where I can find the steel inlane ball guides? Mine are BEAT and cause massive flipper hop that I cannot fix with adjustment

http://www.passionforpinball.com/FlipFrames.htm

#4534 24 days ago

Hey guys. Finishing up the mini restore on my F14. Have two issues maybe someone can help me with.

1. Left sling is stuck on - likely a transistor. Anyone know the number (board location) of the left sling transistor?

2. Spinner wont register in play mode, but WILL in switch test mode. Never seen anything like that before. Clearly the spinner switch is doing its job.

Thanks

#4535 23 days ago
Quoted from wrd1972:

Hey guys. Finishing up the mini restore on my F14. Have two issues maybe someone can help me with.
1. Left sling is stuck on - likely a transistor. Anyone know the number (board location) of the left sling transistor?
2. Spinner wont register in play mode, but WILL in switch test mode. Never seen anything like that before. Clearly the spinner switch is doing its job.
Thanks

On #2, I know for the spinner to register the first switch on the launch wireform must be hit. Have you launched the ball prior to testing? I know this was an issue I had when I replaced my spinner.

#4536 23 days ago

2 new problems cropped up on the ol girl and I don't think they are related. 1st is the diverter on launch is only letting the ball go to the last ramp and is stacking the balls there. 2nd going up to launch lane to the right the ball will not kick out, just hear clicking. Where should I start? Thanks in advance.

#4537 22 days ago
Quoted from bowtech:

2 new problems cropped up on the ol girl and I don't think they are related. 1st is the diverter on launch is only letting the ball go to the last ramp and is stacking the balls there. 2nd going up to launch lane to the right the ball will not kick out, just hear clicking. Where should I start? Thanks in advance.

Upon further inspection I noticed a couple more things. If I take the glass off and start a came and manually put the balls in the center 2 diverter lanes the balls will not pop out of there either. Also doing a solenoid test none of those or the diverters activate. I can also hear a clicking noise in the back box I never heard before this.

#4538 22 days ago
Quoted from bowtech:

Upon further inspection I noticed a couple more things. If I take the glass off and start a came and manually put the balls in the center 2 diverter lanes the balls will not pop out of there either. Also doing a solenoid test none of those or the diverters activate. I can also hear a clicking noise in the back box I never heard before this.

Sounds like you are having a similar problem I did. Does it sound like the video in this post?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/f14-tomcat-owners-club-fans-also-welcome/page/88#post-5656057

If so check fuses around the flipper power board in the backbox. The fuse.on the power board kept blowing and the big bridge rectifier had died.

#4539 22 days ago
Quoted from bowtech:

If I take the glass off and start a came and manually put the balls in the center 2 diverter lanes the balls will not pop out of there either. Also doing a solenoid test none of those or the diverters activate.

Sounds like you're missing the power chain to those solenoids - there's really nothing in common otherwise since the 2 diverters are on 2 of the special solenoid circuits, and one of the center lane lock locations is on the A/C circuits, and another is just a regular solenoid. If your other solenoids are working like the outhole kicker and shooter lane eject, the bridge is likely ok.

You can test the outputs of the transistors at their connectors with a logic probe and make sure they ground when they are supposed to fire - easiest if you advance the solenoid test to the solenoid in question and pause it there with the auto/manual switch.

#4540 22 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Sounds like you're missing the power chain to those solenoids - there's really nothing in common otherwise since the 2 diverters are on 2 of the special solenoid circuits, and one of the center lane lock locations is on the A/C circuits, and another is just a regular solenoid. If your other solenoids are working like the outhole kicker and shooter lane eject, the bridge is likely ok.
You can test the outputs of the transistors at their connectors with a logic probe and make sure they ground when they are supposed to fire - easiest if you advance the solenoid test to the solenoid in question and pause it there with the auto/manual switch.

I have a dvom but with staring to try to do my own repairs I need to look into a logic probe. Do you have one you recommend purchasing?

#4541 22 days ago
Quoted from bowtech:

I have a dvom but with staring to try to do my own repairs I need to look into a logic probe. Do you have one you recommend purchasing?

I have an ancient Radioshack one but there is a thread someone on pinside specifically regarding logic probes. You can use a multimeter as well, and just measure to ground, it might average out the voltage though depending on how fast it's switching, and the meter might not ever 'settle'.

Now that I think about it, the logic probe might be the wrong tool for this anyway - good for everything BEFORE the transistor (like PIA chip outputs and the predriver transistor input).

#4542 19 days ago

Yagov strikes again! In the club as of last week and what a cracking game this is. Only up page 33 of this thread so have a bit more reading to do.

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#4543 18 days ago

The flippers were stress cracked like crazy on mine when I got it as well. The speed of the machine I guess. First thing I did was replace them. Looks like the playfield is in pretty good shape. Welcome to the club

#4544 16 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Sounds like you're missing the power chain to those solenoids - there's really nothing in common otherwise since the 2 diverters are on 2 of the special solenoid circuits, and one of the center lane lock locations is on the A/C circuits, and another is just a regular solenoid. If your other solenoids are working like the outhole kicker and shooter lane eject, the bridge is likely ok.
You can test the outputs of the transistors at their connectors with a logic probe and make sure they ground when they are supposed to fire - easiest if you advance the solenoid test to the solenoid in question and pause it there with the auto/manual switch.

Latest development, I fired it up today juts to make sure it was still not working correctly and now to add to the issues I don't have any flippers. I have not played the game in a week it just sat. Thoughts?

#4545 15 days ago

Just installed this coil 2 weeks ago and noticed it binding tonight. Coil sleeve was stuck, tried replacing it and can't get a new one in. Is this coil junk?

20200905_211003 (resized).jpg
#4546 15 days ago

You were able to get the old sleeve out? Which coil is it. Sounds like it is staying on too long.

#4547 15 days ago
Quoted from bowtech:

Just installed this coil 2 weeks ago and noticed it binding tonight. Coil sleeve was stuck, tried replacing it and can't get a new one in. Is this coil junk?
[quoted image]

Where do the 2 green wires go? There should only be 1 control wire.

#4548 15 days ago

They have those wires running to both sides of the eos. The eos broke so I figured I would replace the coil while there. I also noticed today that the wire broke off the yellow resistor (?). Would that cook the coil?

20200828_141718 (resized).jpg20200828_142029 (resized).jpg
#4549 15 days ago

Those are the pictures I took before I removed the old coil and switch.

#4550 15 days ago
Quoted from bowtech:

They have those wires running to both sides of the eos. The eos broke so I figured I would replace the coil while there. I also noticed today that the wire broke off the yellow resistor (?). Would that cook the coil?
[quoted image][quoted image]

If the EOS broke, the coil would cook while you cradle the ball.

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