(Topic ID: 80718)

F14 Tomcat no music

By SUPERBEE

10 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 34 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by SUPERBEE
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 10 years ago

Hi everyone! im new to pinside and pinball ownership . I grew up in the late 70s and 80s living for pinball (loved games like Blackout, Firepower, Black Knight , and Space Shuttle . Fast forward many years later and at 46 i finally own my own machine . I purchased an F14 Tomcat about 6mnths ago. I had zero experience with pinballs and it had a few issues so i sent it out and had lots of work done to it. (flippers all rebuilt, switch errors fixed etc). I have since learned a lot and have done some restore work on it. Even though im a newbie to pinball machines im pretty handy so i stripped most of the playfield , removed the old gross mylar levelled the inserts and clearcoated. It plats amazing with no issues.... except.... when i bought it i didnt even realize until later that it has all the sound effects and speech but no music. I have done all the tests in the manual.

Coin door sounds test- 1 through 9 all good. 10 through 17 (or however many there are left are either sound effects or nothing (i assume the quiet ones are the music)
SW2 main board test - all good
SW1 sound board test - all good. (getting the descending jet sound)
Pulled and reset all cables from sound board to main board multiple times
Purchased new licenced rom chips U4 U19 U21 U22 no change

So... even though im learning as i go and getting quite good at the mech side of things, im still totally ignorant on the electronic side of things so im hoping someone can help me at least try a few simple things before i have to bring in a real pinball tech to my home and break the bank .

Any help would be so much appreciated.

Thanks
Terry

#2 10 years ago

Welcome!

This is a great forum.... here's a good place for you to start. The collective wisdom of many folk.

Read, learn, share

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/

faz

#3 10 years ago

Thanks Pinball, looks like a great site for things down the road (always something going wrong )
This is an addictive hobby and im sure there are going to be more machines to come down the road. (wife approval of course) lol

#4 10 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

wife approval of course

I don't think that's EVER been an issue with anyone here....

#5 10 years ago

I'm having a similar problem with my pinbot. Same system and set up. I ordered some parts ill let you know how it goes.

#6 10 years ago

If i didnt love my wife so much i would seriously consider the pin over her lol
Thanks Newtoit.
I would love for you to add to this thread and let us know what your issues are and what parts you are ordering ?
It might help my issue .

#7 10 years ago

Here is what I ordered. New sound roms, new ribbon cable from mpu to sound board. If that doesn't have any effect I also ordered (2) 1458 op amps, all new caps for the associated caps, and ic chips 6116, 1408 and pia 6821. I searched for an answer to my issue and pretty much bought every part that anyone mentioned that could be the culprit.
I'm going to start with roms and cable. Next op amps and caps, if its still not working, ill statt putting ic chips in. Ill let you know my progress, still waiting on parts. Hopefully this weekend but prob not until monday.

#8 10 years ago

Thanks newtoit. Ill await your findings.
Anyone else have any idea what i might be dealing with ?

#9 10 years ago

Any signs of battery leakage? The ribbon cable connector going to the sound board and extremely fine traces under holder are susceptible to breaks causing no sound from the aux sound board.

#10 10 years ago

Check/reseat ribbon cable (and other connectors), reseat the EPROMs - never mind, guess you did those parts, check all the connector pins and resolder them on sound board (and the other boards for that matter - cold solder joints).

#11 10 years ago

I had a 71 SUPERBEE hemi orange white gut bench seat dana 60 GOOD looking car. I wonder where she is now? :thinking:welcome to the site its addictive :

#12 10 years ago

Nice freddy! Yeah, my favorite car is a 1969 superbee.
Looked below and around the batteries and everything looks really clean. No leakage evident.
Unfortunatly I'm not comfortable soldiering boards so I think I'm looking at a repair guy.
Wondering if there might be anyone somewhat near me woth an f14 or a compatable machine that I could try my soundboard in to at least see if that is the culprit or not. I'm in the toronto canada area.

#13 10 years ago

Anyone in the toronto area ?

#14 10 years ago

This was happening to me as well. I had to send my board out for repair at firebird pinball in Arizona. Great service.

#15 10 years ago

So it was a sound board issue Ronnie ? Any idea what they ended up fixing ?

#16 10 years ago

It was an mpu issue. I had battery damage that didn't show up visibly on the board.

#17 10 years ago

Ok thanks. Im hoping i can find someone near me to test my sound board first, Im really hoping its something to do with the sound board and not the mpu

#18 10 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Ok thanks. Im hoping i can find someone near me to test my sound board first, Im really hoping its something to do with the sound board and not the mpu

If you don't have any luck, just zip him a email as he is very good at diagnosing problems.

#19 10 years ago

Ok thanks a lot . My board looks really clean around the batteries also but you never know. I want to confirm if its a sound board problem or not first and them move on from there.

#20 10 years ago

Had a similar problem years ago with an F14. Half the sounds come from the sound board and half come from a couple of Roms on the MPU board. In my case it was just as simple as reseating the roms I think.

In the manual - it lists the sound roms, and on Page 31/32 it talks about some Tests you can do. If you don't have the manual download it from ipdb and read through it.

Good Luck

#21 10 years ago
Quoted from LouMatt:

Had a similar problem years ago with an F14. Half the sounds come from the sound board and half come from a couple of Roms on the MPU board. In my case it was just as simple as reseating the roms I think.
In the manual - it lists the sound roms, and on Page 31/32 it talks about some Tests you can do. If you don't have the manual download it from ipdb and read through it.
Good Luck

The music comes off the mpu I believe.

#22 10 years ago
Quoted from LouMatt:

In the manual - it lists the sound roms, and on Page 31/32 it talks about some Tests you can do. If you don't have the manual download it from ipdb and read through it.

I did all the tests which came back fine and also replaced all the sound roms.

The music comes off the mpu I believe.

Yeah, thats what im hearing from most people.

#23 10 years ago

Ok, making progress here. I was able to test my sound board in another F14 and no music in his machine either so i now know its the sound card and not the main board. Based on this new info, any suggestions on where to start with the board ? Again, it has new sound roms so its not that and we tried his board with my cables so i know its not the cables.

#24 10 years ago

Not an expert here...but just because it has new chips does not mean they are good.

Could be bad chips or they got zapped during transport/install. Not being gloom and doom...just don't discount anything at this point.

faz

#25 10 years ago
Quoted from Ronnie1114:

The music comes off the mpu I believe.

No it doesn't.

Music is from the background sound board.

Speech and sound effects from the MPU.

#26 10 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Ok, making progress here. I was able to test my sound board in another F14 and no music in his machine either so i now know its the sound card and not the main board. Based on this new info, any suggestions on where to start with the board ? Again, it has new sound roms so its not that and we tried his board with my cables so i know its not the cables.

If you know the eproms are good, next likely culprit is the RAM at U3. Sometimes the processor chip, it's a 6809 and not a 6802 or 6808 like on the MPU so you would have to swap it with the one out of the other sound board. If you still have that board you can try swapping the two Yamaha chips too. YM2151 and YM3012

Finally could also be the op amps at U11 and U16.

I've never run into a bad 6821 PIA on these sound boards

#27 10 years ago
Quoted from pinball_faz:

Not an expert here...but just because it has new chips does not mean they are good.

Could be bad chips or they got zapped during transport/install. Not being gloom and doom...just don't discount anything at this point.

The machine had the original roms and i only bought new ones hoping that would be the problem but it wasnt and i wouldnt think both sets are bad.

If you know the eproms are good, next likely culprit is the RAM at U3. Sometimes the processor chip, it's a 6809 and not a 6802 or 6808 like on the MPU so you would have to swap it with the one out of the other sound board. If you still have that board you can try swapping the two Yamaha chips too. YM2151 and YM3012

Ill try this first and go from there.

Thanks again guys !

#28 10 years ago

Still waitinf on parts from bigdaddyenterprises...

#29 10 years ago

I have no sounds at all. I've been throwing parts at this and its still not working. New ribbon cable new sound roms. Didnt fix it.
New 1458 op amps on the sound board. Didnt fix it.
New 1408 at u2 on th mpu. New 6802 at u24 on the mpu. Didnt fix it.
Also put new caps at c26 c25 c19 on the sound board. Didn't fix it.
And a new potentiometer.

#30 10 years ago
Quoted from newtoit:

I have no sounds at all. I've been throwing parts at this and its still not working.

Time to troubleshoot then.

http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wms11/index2.htm
3d. When thing don't work: Power-On Tones and Sound Diagnostics/Problems

Have a DMM? No how to use it? How about an oscilloscope? Any electronics training?

#31 10 years ago

Update on my F14.
Could nt figure it out so i removed the board and brought it in to a tech. Should have it fixed and back early next week . Ill keep everyone posted on what the issue was.

#32 10 years ago

Well i finally got my sound board back . Reinstalled it and ...yay! I have music ! I cant believe the difference in how the game feels with the full sound package. Its amazing !! Turns out it was a pooched integrated circuit on the board. 20 dollar part , 80 dollars labor to fix . I really need to learn how to do board work !

#34 10 years ago

All the bill says is part WO 7063. Make any sense ?

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