(Topic ID: 235380)

F14 tomcat kill yagov misfire


By Zero4199

4 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 57 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by GRUMPY
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 57 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 4 months ago

So it's been an ongoing issue, getting worse.
Seems like the left flipper might be triggering it.
The kill yagov goes off on it's own.
Sometimes I hear the kick back fire, sometimes not.
Its random one only happens 20% of the time or so. I tried a switch test and cant find any other switch triggering it. I think its switch 55.

I looked around and found a missing part. Can this be the problem?

See attached pictures

Thanks

20190204_183614 (resized).jpg20190204_183624 (resized).jpg
#2 4 months ago

I think those resistors are for the flashers.
Have you checked the switch for the kickback? maybe it's responding on vibrations

#3 4 months ago

I tried banging on the machine in different areas and had no luck triggering.
During the switch test, the flipper will not cause issue, only during game play.

#4 4 months ago

Maybe start with disconnecting the Yagov switch and play a few games to check if the switch is ok (or not), if this turns out Ok, check the connector on the board where the yagov-coil is controlled (maybe a loose wire or bad contact) and then follow the wiring to the coil. I once had a coil wire stuck and damaged near the playfield hinges giving weird faults. If the coil has a diode check it to.
Succes

#5 4 months ago

Check the switch matrix ?
I had an issue with it firing from left flipper I kept playing to establish the switches involved and found that it only happened with ball locked.
In switch test, I then popped balls in the locks and hit the flipper- sure enough, phantom switch for the yagov kicker. I then followed the system11 repair guide on switch matrix to fix it.
Once you can reproduce it, you are halfway there as you can test connections, diodes etc, replace and retest.

#6 4 months ago

tried it and you're right. It only does it when the balls are locked. I can check it during game play but not during a switch test.
How do I do a switch matrix test?

Thanks

#7 4 months ago

Not so much a test as a troubleshooting process. It helps narrow down the number of places you need to test. It takes a bit of learning but I found this good :
https://hansbalk.home.xs4all.nl/rep/sys11/index3.htm#switch

I printed the switch matrix chart and then determined which switches were involved in the phantom kicker switch. This then left me with the various parts of the matrix that I needed to check (confirm diodes ok, check solder joints etc)

#8 4 months ago

Wow, that is a long and difficult read.

#9 4 months ago

I can not get it to happen during switch test.
Only in game play.
With the glass off if I move the flipper by hand to the EOS? Contact, it will trigger the kill yagov 1% if the time.
40% of the time during multi ball.
I guess my next step is getting a jumper wire and testing the board with the switch plugs disconnected.

#10 4 months ago

I did a CPU switch test with a jumper and everything worked as it should.
I discovered that the switches on 1J10 pin 2 are the switches that are acting up.
Slam tilt [occasionally problem]
Right flipper e.o.s.
Middle ramp [occasional problem]
Top right loop
Kill gen. Yagov [occasionally problem]
Left flipper e.o.s. [seems to cause problems]

I think they are all linked to the same white with purple wire.

Where do I go from here?

Thanks

#11 4 months ago

I went through the wire harness and looked through all the connections with slight wiggles here and there. Found nothing.

Then I removed the black plastic ramp to look at the yagov kicker and it was loose. I tightened the four screws that held it in.

It is working better now with only one or two fantom fires during a long game.

Must be a wire rubbed through somwhere.

Any other ideas?

#12 4 months ago

First off, I no expert here, so I’m only stating what I think I’ve figured out.
All of the switches are wired according to the switch matrix. Each switch on the chart has a diode across its wires to isolate it from the switches around it in the chart. You most likely have a shorted diode or some other short somewhere that is causing the machine to think the Yagov switch is being triggered. Visually inspect the switches that share rows and columns on the switch matrix with the Yagov kicker switch for any obvious bending of wire leads or burnt or bent diodes.
A12FF389-00C4-4C87-8B3D-CB101F228743.jpeg

#13 4 months ago

I went through and checked the switch diodes.
No problems found

#14 4 months ago

Is this ok?

20190208_132320 (resized).jpg
#15 4 months ago

Can the LED lights mess with it and cause these issues?

#16 4 months ago
Quoted from Zero4199:

I went through and checked the switch diodes.
No problems found

Did you do a switch test in the menu, with the balls removed, insuring that only one switch shows on the display for for 3 cycles.

You should straighten out the switch blades. The blade with the weight should touch the square pad on the door. The clear tubing should cover the metal lead of the diode.

Quoted from Zero4199:

Can the LED lights mess with it and cause these issues?

No, but SCR6 has been known to cause some switch issues, but look at the other options first.

#17 4 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Did you do a switch test in the menu, with the balls removed, insuring that only one switch shows on the display for for 3 cycles.

Tied all this in multiple combinations and leangth of time. And bumped the board in different directions with no issues.
I never saw a switch triggered that was not touched. It's odd to me that it will only happen during game play.

#18 4 months ago

Don't know if you are able to replace SCR 6 yourself but that is where I would go next.

#19 4 months ago

I've read about 25 pages of the f14 fan club topic and I believe you are right about the SCR.
Where is it, and what does it look like
Thanks
Mike

#20 4 months ago
Quoted from Zero4199:

Where is it, and what does it look like

It's on the CPU, near connector 1J-8. It looks like the pic below. It's no longer made like the original. But it can be replaced with something similar. In the first pic you see that the resistor array has a ground connection on pin 10, this is because the original part had capacitors and resistors. The ground connection was for the caps to remove noise from the pulsed signals. If the caps start going bad they can cause false signals to be introduced in the circuit. The replacement parts do not have the caps and the 10th pin is no longer needed. So when you purchase the replacement part you can purchase a 8 resistor array and leave the 10th pin hole exposed on the circuit board. Some people don't like the look of this and want a more original looking part so you can buy a 9 resistor array and cut off the 10th pin of the resistor before installing it on the board. After installation it will cover the 10th pin hole on the board and look more like the original. The dot on the resistor array is a label for pin 1.

SM (resized).PNGpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

cpu (resized).PNG
#21 4 months ago

Here is the 9 pin version that solders in without cutting, but pin 10 on the circuit board is exposed.

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=4609X-101-102

Here is the 10 pin version that needs the 10th. lead cut off and installed so it doesn't contact the 10th. hole on the board.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=4610X-101-102

#22 4 months ago

Wow, .35 cent part.
Is there a way to test the old one?
Is there a write up or video on replacement?
Thanks very much for the info so far

#23 4 months ago

If you are capable of replacing this part, then I would buy the 10 pin version as it looks better to me when finished.

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=4610X-101-102

When you are ready I can walk you thru the replacement. I just don't any pics of before and after.

#24 4 months ago

I suppose this is the part in question

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#25 4 months ago

Yep. Looks like Q-49 needs some attention too.

#26 4 months ago

Yikes.
Didn't see that

#27 4 months ago

This?

Screenshot_20190212-142835_Chrome (resized).jpg
#28 4 months ago

It looks like it was soldered in from the top side.

#29 4 months ago

Do I order the 2n3904 in case I need to replace it?

#30 4 months ago

Order 11 of each.
5$ minimum.
Wish they sold solder suckers or wicks too

#31 4 months ago

Yes they are 2n3904 transistors.

#32 4 months ago

Parts are on the way, what tools do I need?

#33 4 months ago
Quoted from Zero4199:

what tools do I need?

This sounds like you do not have any circuit board repair experience. This is a 400.00 board, nothing to be experimenting on. Do you know someone close by that can help you with this?

#34 4 months ago

I can ask around

#35 4 months ago

Maybe I can practice on some old boards.

#36 4 months ago
Quoted from Zero4199:

Maybe I can practice on some old boards.

To remove components right on a board like this, you really need a Hakko vacum solder sucker tool. For the 3904 transistor you may be able to get away with a manual sucker but those pretty much suck.

#37 4 months ago
Quoted from Zero4199:

Maybe I can practice on some old boards.

Yes do this. Also check out Terry B pinball site, lots of great stuff there.

https://pinballrehab.com/

If you find that you can not find some one near by to help let me know.

#38 4 months ago

I've got a line on a guy that I reached out to.
Waiting to hear back.
What does a repair like this cost?
$100?

#39 4 months ago

30.00 dollars.

1 week later
#40 3 months ago

I've been practicing.
Everything came in.
I ha e the board out and there has been work done before

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#41 3 months ago

This area behind the white things was hot at one point

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#42 3 months ago

This looks rough.
If this doesn't work, is there places to buy new boards?
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#43 3 months ago
Quoted from Zero4199:

This looks rough.
If this doesn't work, is there places to buy new boards?
[quoted image]

No, that is totally fine. It's flux, byproduct of solider. Most people don't clean it off. Just ugly, but doesn't impact anything.

#44 3 months ago

That board is a pretty normal example and absolutely repairable.

#45 3 months ago

Ok. I'm ready to get started.
Which one is the 10 pin? The end with the dot or the other side?

#46 3 months ago
Quoted from Zero4199:

Ok. I'm ready to get started.
Which one is the 10 pin? The end with the dot or the other side?

dot = #1 pin.

#47 3 months ago
Quoted from Zero4199:

This area behind the white things was hot at one point
[quoted image][quoted image]

This is normal, those are high wattage resistors and are very warm when the game is on.

#48 3 months ago

Old one is out

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#49 3 months ago
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#50 3 months ago

Looks good to me.
Time to try it out

20190224_133258 (resized).jpg
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