(Topic ID: 256888)

F14 Reset Issues, may be applicable to other System 11s. Need help


By Djshakes

6 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 20 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by GRUMPY
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 6 months ago

Hi All,

My F14 started resetting. I have read bad diodes can cause this. I replaced the diodes on one flipper coil. The others look fine. It resets when I first turn on the game for about a minute or two...especially when double tapping the flippers. Then it stops so I am thinking it isn't a diode issue but possibly a power board issue until the game heats up? Bridge Rectifier? Sometimes the issue goes away if I power on the machine and power off. Any suggestions before I shotgun all the diodes?

#2 6 months ago
Quoted from Djshakes:

Hi All,
My F14 started resetting. I have read bad diodes can cause this. I replaced the diodes on one flipper coil. The others look fine. It resets when I first turn on the game for about a minute or two...especially when double tapping the flippers. Then it stops so I am thinking it isn't a diode issue but possibly a power board issue until the game heats up? Bridge Rectifier? Sometimes the issue goes away if I power on the machine and power off. Any suggestions before I shotgun all the diodes?

The fact that it resets when you power it up and the issue coming and going with power cycling are pretty good clues that it probably isn't a playfield diode at fault. Check +5VDC logic supply at MPU IJ17 Pins 4,5,6 = +5.03 VDC @8.1 mV AC ripple. You might have a failed filter capacitor or bad regulator, or even a bad cable crimp. Increased current draw when activating your flippers is likely causing the supply to dip enough to trip a reset.

#3 6 months ago
Quoted from Djshakes:

Hi All, My F14 started resetting. I have read bad diodes can cause this. I replaced the diodes on one flipper coil. The others look fine. It resets when I first turn on the game for about a minute or two...especially when double tapping the flippers.

Just so you know, sometimes you CAN tell if a diode is bad by looking at it (i.e. it will be crumbling, or cracked) but visual inspection of a component doesn't tell you much if anything about if it's good or not.

I agree with wayout440 that it's more likely to be power supply and connector related though. 32 years for a filter cap is a long time.

#4 6 months ago

Thanks, I'll check this tonight. Not sure what "8.1 mV AC ripple" is but I can use my dmm to test for 5v. Do you just do it without firing any coils or should I have someone flip when I'm testing?

Would this solve it if indeed on board?
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1129-yorktown-parts-and-equip/01493-williams-system-7-11a-power-supply-capacitor-rebuild-kit

#5 6 months ago
Quoted from Djshakes:

Thanks, I'll check this tonight. Not sure what "8.1 mV AC ripple" is but I can use my dmm to test for 5v. Do you just do it without firing any coils or should I have someone flip when I'm testing?
Would this solve it if indeed on board?
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1129-yorktown-parts-and-equip/01493-williams-system-7-11a-power-supply-capacitor-rebuild-kit

Thinking maybe I swap C10 cap just to be safe as it probably needs it anyway.

#6 6 months ago
Quoted from wayout440:

The fact that it resets when you power it up and the issue coming and going with power cycling are pretty good clues that it probably isn't a playfield diode at fault. Check +5VDC logic supply at MPU IJ17 Pins 4,5,6 = +5.03 VDC @8.1 mV AC ripple. You might have a failed filter capacitor or bad regulator, or even a bad cable crimp. Increased current draw when activating your flippers is likely causing the supply to dip enough to trip a reset.

I try testing this but not sure I'm doing it correctly. Setting my dmm to dcv. Unplugging ij17 and testing wires coming from power supply into that cinnection. Readings are all funky.

#7 6 months ago
Quoted from Djshakes:

I try testing this but not sure I'm doing it correctly. Setting my dmm to dcv. Unplugging ij17 and testing wires coming from power supply into that cinnection. Readings are all funky.

If your dmm lead probes are not needle sharp, you can grab the positive voltage from one of the first components the logic voltage feeds into, such as L1. You want to keep the harness plugs installed, as that provides a load and an accurate measurement under running conditions.

All you need to do to measure AC ripple is leave the dmm probes in the same location and switch your meter to read AC voltage.

#8 6 months ago

like others have said it sounds like a cap not doing its job until its warmed up. double flipping pulls the 5v rail down causing a reset when the cap probably would keep it high for the brief surge.

#9 6 months ago

I always replace all power supply caps on a game like this vintage . Reflow ps header pins. Check large ac input connector for burned pins as well.

#11 6 months ago

Magic bullet board doesnt work with System11 games.

OP actually has to properly diagnose and fix this one.

#12 6 months ago

Unfortunately F14 is not WPC. But that WPC daughterboard won't help you if J101, J114, J210, Z-connector or C31 are bad.

#13 6 months ago
Quoted from NPO:

Magic bullet board doesnt work with System11 games.
OP actually has to properly diagnose and fix this one.

Yup. Might not even be the power supply itself...could simply be a worn out oxidized connector pin. Troubleshooting is more cost effective than throwing in parts randomly anyway. However, like when I actually determined my power supply to be failed on some system 11 games I purchased modern replacement power supplies for long term reliability - which generally had newer, cooler running components and nice features like LED status indicators. I did this with several system 11 games like Taxi and F14 Tomcat. Then the removed units I sold online for cheap spare parts. On average you might buy a new system 11 aftermarket supply for around $100, get about $20 back from selling the old one....but won't help you much if the original problem later turns out to not be caused by the problem power supply in the first place.

#14 6 months ago

Not really. Band aid for an underlying issue that will occur later on down the road. Good to have in a pinch where you HAVE to have something up and running for a party or tournament, but not a viable long term fix IMO. Fix the board properly.

And as others have pointed out, not appropriate for F-14.

#15 6 months ago

Hi all. I got a u10 pia failure when I turned game on this morning. I ordered the rebuild kit I linked above. Here are my readings at ij17:
1: 1.3
2: 1.3
3: 1.2
4: 4.98
5: 4.98
6: 4.98
7: key
8: - 14.10
9: 10.60

4 thru 6 are below 5. Assuming that is my issue?

I pulled connectors on powerboard and reseated. Got 4-6 up to 4.99 volts but still below 5.

#16 6 months ago

4.98V isn't bad for the DC voltage. What was the AC ripple voltage?...that will provide info as to if the filter caps are good. You might also try the flipping again while measuring to see if there is any change. If you find one flipper causes it but not the other, I would be suspicious of a failed flyback diode on that particular flipper circuit.

Here is also a link to some discussion about the U10 failure message:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/u10-pia-failure-where-to-find-and-replacement-repair-advice

#17 6 months ago
Quoted from wayout440:

4.98V isn't bad for the DC voltage. What was the AC ripple voltage?...that will provide info as to if the filter caps are good. You might also try the flipping again while measuring to see if there is any change. If you find one flipper causes it but not the other, I would be suspicious of a failed flyback diode on that particular flipper circuit.
Here is also a link to some discussion about the U10 failure message:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/u10-pia-failure-where-to-find-and-replacement-repair-advice

I'll test out the ripple voltage tonight. I think I researched enough how to do it. I think it is the setting with the wave over the "V" on the DMM.

#18 6 months ago
Quoted from Djshakes:

I'll test out the ripple voltage tonight. I think I researched enough how to do it. I think it is the setting with the wave over the "V" on the DMM.

That is correct.

#19 6 months ago
Quoted from wayout440:

That is correct.

Ac ripple was 0. I'd get a quick reading when I touched the test points but always settled back to 0.

#20 6 months ago

This should be over 12 volts. This should be checked at the power supply to determine whether you have a bad connector or you need to rebuild the power supply.

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