Quoted from KingBW:I'm not sure these would work for the flashers or not:
No those resistors will not work for the flasher boards. They need to be 5 ohm at 10 watt and 330 ohm at 7 watt.
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Quoted from KingBW:I'm not sure these would work for the flashers or not:
No those resistors will not work for the flasher boards. They need to be 5 ohm at 10 watt and 330 ohm at 7 watt.
Quoted from Dillonsdaddy:The circled flashers do not work.
In test does your knocker work?
Quoted from Dillonsdaddy:nor do I get a flash from F7 either
Service bulletin #41 says that flasher 7c was disconnected so that the targets didn't short out to the switch matrix.
www.ipdb.org/f-14 will take you where you need to go. Lots of great stuff on there for most pinball machines. When running a coil test it will start with coil 1A Outhole Kicker then go to 1C Flasher 1 and so on. When you get to 7C Flasher 7 nothing happens because the wires have been disconnected, I have hooked mine back up so mine flashes two upper P/F flash bulbs. Coil 8A is not used then 8C Flasher 8, but after the first 8 coils there is no more switching between A side and C side it just goes to 9 then 10 and 11 and so on. The reason I asked you if your knocker is working is because its coil 6A. One of your flashers that doesn't work is 6C. They are tied together and it helps me toubleshoot if I know this.
Quoted from KingBW:From reading a few other threads it looks like I need to check all the crusty resistors on the boards under the playfield.
The resistor board for flasher 5 has a Black/Green wire connect to the driver terminal.
Quoted from KingBW:Will these work?
Yes
Quoted from KingBW:Soldering back on the old resistor did not fix it.
That is because that resistor is the warming resistor, it allows a small amount of current to flow thru the filament so the bulb will light quicker like a flash. The center resistor needs to be good to make the bulb work. These flash boards are for two sets of flasher circuits.
Quoted from KingBW:Just solder it back on with a gob of solder?
It will just fall off in time, needs to be replaced unless you are going to use LEDs in the future.
Look at page 28 in the manual, since your 5A coil works then most of the flasher circuit is working. Set the pin in repeat flasher 5 test, lift the P/F and use a jumper wire from the ground terminal (black wire) of the flasher board to the driver terminal that has black/green wire. Check if your bulbs are flashing now. If they are flashing remove jumper and turn off power, then check for continuity of the black/green wire from the flasher board to the diode board D13 also a black/green wire. If there is continuity on the wire then the diode D13 on the doide board is bad.
1st. This means that the 5 ohm (larger) resistor on the flash board is bad or there is a cracked solder joint on the resistor.
2nd. There is no power to the bulb on the orange wire.
3rd. The new bulb you used is bad.
4th. The wire from the resistor board to the flash bulb is broken.
Start by ohming the resistor then the wire from the lamp terminal of the flash board to the bulb. Then ohm the bulb itself. If all that checks out then put machine back in repete flasher 5 test and check for voltage at the bulb, should be @ 28 volts.
No apology is needed. I have been repairing pins for 25 years so I take for granted what others may or may not know. It is good to ask when you need help, for not to long you will be helping others after you gain some experiance repairing your pins. The manual doesn't show or explain much about the flash boards, so your not alone on this. In post #21 KingBW shows a pic of a flash board and they are mounted under the P/F and in the backbox. When you look at one you will see 4 cement resistors and 6 solder terminals. This board is for two seperate flasher circuits, so one circuit has a warming resistor (small 330 ohm) a voltage droping resistor (larger 5 ohm) and 3 solder terminals. One terminal is lamp, the wire on here goes to the bulb. The driver terminal goes to the MPU transistor (via a diode board for flasher 1-8 only) and then to ground when the transistor is turned on. The last terminal is ground and its for the warming resistor to have a path to ground to function.
Now in your manual page 1 shows solenoid table, lots of info on this page. The first 8 are doubled to 16 by using relay that switches power between the A and C side. This is why I asked if you knocker works then I know the MPU board transistor is working and the wireing from the diode board is good. Now since other flashers in your pin are working that tells me your A/C relay is functioning. This is narrowing it down to a bad diode on the diode board or a droping resistor on the flash board or the bulb.
Look at page 1 of the manual, flasher 4 follow this across the page and it tells you the wire color is black/yellow (flash board to diode board) and the wire is gry/yellow (from diode board to MPU) and Q24 turns it on and there are 2p (2 bulbs on the play field) and that they are both #89 bulbs. Now on page 46 it shows you where each of the bulbs are at on the play field (retangle box 04c) lower right red and upper back board fourth from thre right. Once you get familar with the manual, it will answer all your questions.
Put a jumper across the larger resistor and test once as it will burn out the bulb quickly, but then you will know that everything else is working as it should. The resistors don't go bad that often, so get what you need and 2 extra. They go bad when not installed properly. If your going to use LEDs then don't buy the 330 ohm resistors as you don't need them. Just remove the ones you have and install the LEDs.
Well on your way to having this completed. This is a good board for learning to solder on as it has larger traces. If the cement resistor has bumps on the ends, these are used to hold the resistor off the board for air circulation. If there is no bumps then hold resistor off the board a 1/4" with a spacer when you solder. When you put the resistor leads thru the board holes, cut them off @ 1/4" long and bend over on top of the trace that they get soldered to. This gives them a mechanical bond. Then solder them on and they will never fall off again. Remove the spacer after soldering.
It's funny that you got 28v on the driver terminal and when you grounded it, the lamp did NOT flash. This can happen when measuring voltage and there's a bad connnection in the circuit. So I would check both leads of the large resistor for cracked solder joints, cracked leads or a cracked resistor. If you find nothing then jumper the resistor and retest. If it works with the jumper then replace the 5 ohm 10 watt resistor.
If your LEDs don't when there installed, the polarity on the socket may be reversed. It was about 50/50 on mine that I had to reverse the wires on.
In my opinion F-14 has the best light show of all times, then when you LED the flashers it's just blinding. But in a good way.
Sounds great that the whole family enjoys pinball, now add so under cab lighting to f-14 to finish it off. Raybans required.
Quoted from KingBW:Can you do me another favor?
No problem, start with your power wire. The red wire is power in, and its on the wrong terminal. It then goes to the wrong terminals on all the rest of the sockets. So you need to switch every wire on each socket to make them work. Sorry for the bad news, but I sure you can have this fixed in a hour. Have fun and let me know how it turns out.
Ok so the white/black wired pair work, but the white pair don't. Correct, then check the solenoid table for 2 #89 bulbs in the back box. Flasher 9 and flasher 10. You said #9 works so you need to check flasher 10 which is solenoid 15. Service bulletin #41 shows how the wires where reconnected to eliminate both red flashers. Check your pin to see if this was done.
Quoted from KingBW:where nothing is connected to the "ground" terminal near R1. ???
You only need one ground wire because the circuit board trace connects both pins.
Take a pic of what you have now so I can double check it.
Your wiring looks good. Now since there are bulbs on the playfield and the back box, there are two flasher boards connected together and the warming resistors need to be removed from both boards. You have removed them from the backbox, now check the flash board next to the shooter lane with the same brn/blk and brn/vio driver wires. See if you have removed those warming resistors.
#9 flasher is the blue dome at the top of the playfield and #10 flasher is the right red dome at the top of the playfield.
KingBW to answer your question, yes and yes. Also you can hook up under cab leds to any of the controlled solenoids that you like. If you using single color strips then it's easy, but if you want different colors like purple or aqua you will need to add diodes inline each color for isolation. Let me know if you need any help with the connections.
Are you thinking one blue strip and one yellow strip or one RGB strip to make both colors. You can't make yellow on the RGB strip without a controller. Simple colors can be made like blue, green, red, purple and aqua. Any 12 volt led strips will work and they can be connected without relays. If you use a RGB and want multiple colors connected to multiple circuits you may have to add some diodes to isolate one circuit from another.
I like using 5050 60 leds per meter, no special brand. All are made in China anyway. I think you will like one strip of each color if using 60 leds per meter, if to bright you can always cut some off. The other topic about led strips for GI lighting all the time on 12 volts is totally different then this. First we are using 34 volts B+ power not 12 volts. Also you have replaced all the bulbs with leds so the load has been reduced to cover the led strips you are adding. This B+ circuit is already fused at 4 amps on the power supply. I have six red strips going side to side connected to solenoids 1-6 and have a white and blue strip going front to back with no problems. About 20 feet in total, you really know when you get an extra ball. Since you are going to use single color 12 volt strips just connect them across the bulb socket that you want them to work with. Polarity is a must or they wont light, + to the center pin and - to the side pin. Remember the shades!!
I will be watching for your results. I'm always interested in different peoples ideas on how to do things. As I can also learn from them.
Quoted from KingBW:can I
Yes.
Quoted from KingBW:(should I)
No.
Since all ( 1-6 ) flash lamps are A/C select circuits I would connect one power wire for all 6 strips to the C terminal on the A/C relay. The negative wire for each strip can go to the lamp terminal on the correct flash lamp board. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.
Put your pin in coil test and lock down the advance button when you get to AC relay. With the AC relay clicking, lift the p/f and find the relay. The C terminal on the relay should be an orange wire, solder on a wire to it and this will become your positive power for all six led strips. Each negative will go to the lamp terminal on the flash board for that flasher. So flasher #1 led strips ground wire should be soldered to the white/brown wire on the flasher board just above the left sling. Flasher #2 led strips ground wire should be solder to the white/red wire, and so on. Also would you like to know how to run LEDs in your beacons?
Quoted from KingBW:Do you have a way to make something else work with those?
Yes, I add a bridge and a resistor then I can run standard 12 volt leds. Are yours colored leds? I ran a 13 smd 5050 red, white and blue. It makes for deeper colors.
Quoted from KingBW:My beacon bulbs are just white
And expensive I bet. I have less then 10 dollars in mine for everthing.
Quoted from KingBW:Did you do the blue lit up LED star posts? I did mine and they look pretty good.
I been thinking of doing this to a few of my pins, but so many other things to do first.
When you finish your led mods you need to do a video of it.
Quoted from KingBW:About $4 each.
Not as bad as I thought they would be.
Quoted from KingBW:I'm doing a progressive video of the transformation
This will be very cool, I can't wait.
Quoted from KingBW:I found the AC relay (snubber relay board)
It should not say snubber.
Quoted from KingBW:I looked online for a nice power distribution block to make it a nice clean
This is sweet.
Quoted from KingBW:Flasher 1 = white/brown
Yep
Quoted from KingBW:Flasher 2 = white/red
Yep
Quoted from KingBW:Flasher 3 = white/orange
Yep
Quoted from KingBW:Flasher 4 = ?
White/Yellow
Quoted from KingBW:Flasher 5 = ?
White/Green
Quoted from KingBW:Flasher 6 = ?
White/Blue
Quoted from KingBW:Flasher 7 = Not used
White/Violet Mine is hooked up.
Quoted from KingBW:Flasher 8 = white/gray
Yep
Quoted from KingBW:Flasher 9 = solid white
Flasher 10 = white/black
Yep, but if you are doing these two you will need to use a different power source. The CPU turns these two on the at the same time that the solenoids are fireing so there wont be any power on the orange wire of the A/C relay.
Quoted from KingBW:It does say "Relay
Yep!
Quoted from KingBW:I'll just go directly to the bulb and flasher board behind the translate
Perfect!
Quoted from KingBW:Flasher 7 - when would that phantom one typically trigger?
It flashes in a pattern with #9 and #10
Quoted from KingBW:Ohhhh ... maybe I'll use one of my yellow LED strips and put that one on the back with the blues also
Nice, I can't wait.
Quoted from KingBW:There is a board with a purple/brown wire to the driver connection with no lamp wire
This is the p/f #10 flasher that was not connected for production runs.
Quoted from KingBW:Or do I need to also run a wire from the diode board #7 (that isn't connected)to a empty board driver connection?
Yes , this wire was left out on production runs. So add a wire from the diode board A7 point to the resistor board with the with the lifted warming resistor driver point. Connect LEDs strip positive to the positive a/c relay power buss and the LEDs strip ground to the resistor board lamp pin.
I have had good luck cleaning with alcohol then apply the strips. Sometimes when nothing is working I use hot glue to hold them in place.
Everything is looking good so far.
Quoted from KingBW:As a "bystander", they are pretty cool
Yes these are mostly for bystanders. When your having a good ball the bored bystanders got something to watch.
Quoted from KingBW:LED strips are all installed and working properly
This is going to be very cool, can't wait to see the video.
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