(Topic ID: 143900)

F14 Flashers Not Working


By Dillonsdaddy

3 years ago



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  • 116 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by nerdygrrl
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There are 116 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 3 years ago

The circled flashers do not work. The flashers not working on the top of the playfield under the backbox are flashers 4 and 6. I get no flash in the diagnostic for either of them, nor do I get a flash from F7 either but do not know what is supposed to flash. The blue and red flashers on the right side of the playfield in the other picture do not flash but I don't know what circuit they are supposed to be on. Any clues to help me would be appreciate!!

Thanks!

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#2 3 years ago

Check the cement resistors beneath the playfield, make sure they haven't broken off. Common on this game.

#3 3 years ago

no dropped cement resistors that I see. Where, specifically, would I check as there are multiple resistor boards of this type under the playfield. As they have not fallen off, how do you test the resistors once I know which one to test?

#4 3 years ago

the resistors break off on one leg and will hang a bit from the board under the playfield.
I just fixed a bunch of them on a game I was working on.

#5 3 years ago

From what i understand, resistors are the likely cause of my issue. OK....if someone can specifically direct me to the resistors that control the flashers I've circled in these photos I should simply be able to replace them...right? Thanks guys. I do not have an electrical engineering degree and cant read available schematics on the F14....you'll have to point me in the right direction.

#6 3 years ago

I unfortunately no longer have my F-14 so i would suggest until someone more knowledgeable chimes in to go under the playfield and check each and every one. Pull on them to see if they are loose or perhaps use a DMM to check continuity, with power off!

#7 3 years ago

Okay I gotta ask because sometimes the obvious gets missed and I haven't seen anyone mention it, but are we sure it isn't just that the bulbs are burned out and need replacing?

#8 3 years ago

Bulbs have been replaced, yes.

#9 3 years ago

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/f14-tomcat-owners-club-fans-also-welcome
Don't know if you been here yet but its a good idea. Lots of owners in there to help.
I know of the flash lamp circuit boards they have them at marco spec. Just bought my F-14 waiting to get it home. It is in rough shape.

#10 3 years ago

My flasher #5 circuit is out on this game - the one circuit that controls the flashers between the ones you circled. This would be my last "fix" to a big upgrade project if I can figure it out. If you find out before me, please post it. If I find it, I'll post. I did buy some resistors on eBay that are supposed to replace the "crusty ones" but I'm not sure these would work for the flashers or not:

ebay.com link

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from KingBW:

I'm not sure these would work for the flashers or not:

No those resistors will not work for the flasher boards. They need to be 5 ohm at 10 watt and 330 ohm at 7 watt.

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from Dillonsdaddy:

The circled flashers do not work.

In test does your knocker work?

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from Dillonsdaddy:

nor do I get a flash from F7 either

Service bulletin #41 says that flasher 7c was disconnected so that the targets didn't short out to the switch matrix.

#14 3 years ago

Have we checked all the fuses that control the flashers?

#15 3 years ago

blockquote cite="#2798161">No those resistors will not work for the flasher boards. They need to be 5 ohm at 10 watt and 330 ohm at 7 watt.
Thanks for the info, I'll have to look for those online if I have a bad one. Do you know of a good source for those?

Quoted from GRUMPY:

In test does your knocker work?

My knocker works fine.

Quoted from Astropin:

Have we checked all the fuses that control the flashers?

From what I see, multiple flashers work off of the same fuse. Only flasher #5 is out. Yes, I replaced both bulbs for #5 flasher with new ones and they still do not work.

From reading a few other threads it looks like I need to check all the crusty resistors on the boards under the playfield.

Thanks for the help and suggestions ... much appreciated.

#16 3 years ago

Have you checked continuity / broken wires?

#17 3 years ago

King BW the knocker test was for the OP. Your touble is solenoid 5. So test and see if your center right eject solenoid works in the test menu.

#18 3 years ago

Grumpy....are F14 Service Bulletins available somewhere I can look at? If Flasher 7 was disconnected by design, how do I run down the others?

#19 3 years ago

www.ipdb.org/f-14 will take you where you need to go. Lots of great stuff on there for most pinball machines. When running a coil test it will start with coil 1A Outhole Kicker then go to 1C Flasher 1 and so on. When you get to 7C Flasher 7 nothing happens because the wires have been disconnected, I have hooked mine back up so mine flashes two upper P/F flash bulbs. Coil 8A is not used then 8C Flasher 8, but after the first 8 coils there is no more switching between A side and C side it just goes to 9 then 10 and 11 and so on. The reason I asked you if your knocker is working is because its coil 6A. One of your flashers that doesn't work is 6C. They are tied together and it helps me toubleshoot if I know this.

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from KingBW:

From reading a few other threads it looks like I need to check all the crusty resistors on the boards under the playfield.

The resistor board for flasher 5 has a Black/Green wire connect to the driver terminal.

#21 3 years ago

I think I found my problem - the crusty resistor under the playfield. Suggestions? Just solder it back on with a gob of solder? Do you know of a source for these? My ohm meter isn't that great but the resistor measures some value ... the needle on the ohm meter moved.

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#22 3 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

So test and see if your center right eject solenoid works in the test menu.

Yes the center right solenoid works.

#23 3 years ago

Soldering back on the old resistor did not fix it.

#25 3 years ago
Quoted from KingBW:

Will these work?

Yes

Quoted from KingBW:Soldering back on the old resistor did not fix it.

That is because that resistor is the warming resistor, it allows a small amount of current to flow thru the filament so the bulb will light quicker like a flash. The center resistor needs to be good to make the bulb work. These flash boards are for two sets of flasher circuits.

Quoted from KingBW:Just solder it back on with a gob of solder?

It will just fall off in time, needs to be replaced unless you are going to use LEDs in the future.
Look at page 28 in the manual, since your 5A coil works then most of the flasher circuit is working. Set the pin in repeat flasher 5 test, lift the P/F and use a jumper wire from the ground terminal (black wire) of the flasher board to the driver terminal that has black/green wire. Check if your bulbs are flashing now. If they are flashing remove jumper and turn off power, then check for continuity of the black/green wire from the flasher board to the diode board D13 also a black/green wire. If there is continuity on the wire then the diode D13 on the doide board is bad.

#26 3 years ago

Grumpy.....thanks for the reference to the database. I've booked marked it and downloaded the F14 manual as it was more complete than the one I had. Great. Now to the knocker question...yes, the knocker is working.

#27 3 years ago

I type very slow with two fingers and your problem is the same as King BW but his is #5 instead of #4, #6. So follow what I told him above. Your wire color for #4 is Black/Yellow and diode D12. Black/Blue and diode D14 for #6 flasher. If you don't understand something just ask.

#28 3 years ago

I jumped the black wire to the black/green wire on that flasher board and it still did not flash - neither of the 2 new light bulbs. I even tried it from the solder pads on the back of the board. Checking the continuity from the flasher board to the diode board for the black/green wire checks ok. What does this mean?

#29 3 years ago

1st. This means that the 5 ohm (larger) resistor on the flash board is bad or there is a cracked solder joint on the resistor.
2nd. There is no power to the bulb on the orange wire.
3rd. The new bulb you used is bad.
4th. The wire from the resistor board to the flash bulb is broken.

Start by ohming the resistor then the wire from the lamp terminal of the flash board to the bulb. Then ohm the bulb itself. If all that checks out then put machine back in repete flasher 5 test and check for voltage at the bulb, should be @ 28 volts.

#30 3 years ago

OK Grumpy....I do have a question. Really kind of elementary I suppose and apology in advance but can you direct me to the flasher board and driver terminal you speak of? Thank you!

#31 3 years ago

No apology is needed. I have been repairing pins for 25 years so I take for granted what others may or may not know. It is good to ask when you need help, for not to long you will be helping others after you gain some experiance repairing your pins. The manual doesn't show or explain much about the flash boards, so your not alone on this. In post #21 KingBW shows a pic of a flash board and they are mounted under the P/F and in the backbox. When you look at one you will see 4 cement resistors and 6 solder terminals. This board is for two seperate flasher circuits, so one circuit has a warming resistor (small 330 ohm) a voltage droping resistor (larger 5 ohm) and 3 solder terminals. One terminal is lamp, the wire on here goes to the bulb. The driver terminal goes to the MPU transistor (via a diode board for flasher 1-8 only) and then to ground when the transistor is turned on. The last terminal is ground and its for the warming resistor to have a path to ground to function.

#32 3 years ago

Now in your manual page 1 shows solenoid table, lots of info on this page. The first 8 are doubled to 16 by using relay that switches power between the A and C side. This is why I asked if you knocker works then I know the MPU board transistor is working and the wireing from the diode board is good. Now since other flashers in your pin are working that tells me your A/C relay is functioning. This is narrowing it down to a bad diode on the diode board or a droping resistor on the flash board or the bulb.

#33 3 years ago

Wow Grumpy, that's fantastic. Thanks for helping me with my flipper issue as well in a separate thread.

I have work to do.... I'll poke around and see what I can see. But....as there are multiple resistor boards under the PF, which boards are in play for me to test considering the lamps that don't work? And......are my circled blue and red flashlamps correlated to the red flashers at the top of the playfield or are these two separate problems involving separate resistor boards and corresponding diodes?

#34 3 years ago

Look at page 1 of the manual, flasher 4 follow this across the page and it tells you the wire color is black/yellow (flash board to diode board) and the wire is gry/yellow (from diode board to MPU) and Q24 turns it on and there are 2p (2 bulbs on the play field) and that they are both #89 bulbs. Now on page 46 it shows you where each of the bulbs are at on the play field (retangle box 04c) lower right red and upper back board fourth from thre right. Once you get familar with the manual, it will answer all your questions.

#35 3 years ago

Thank you sir!!

#36 3 years ago

Dillionsdaddy - sorry for sharing you thread, but since it is common (maybe the same) issue, were are learning some good trouble-shooting steps from Grumpy for us "inexperienced" pinball fixing hobbyists.

Grumpy - I swapped bulbs with a known working bulb at one of the two locations and the bulb still does not work at that location, the one that was there worked at the other location. In Ohming the larger resistor, it appears to be dead. The wires are solid on the board, but the body of the resistor is a "little" loose compared to the others. I'm concluding this is the problem. Do you agree? I'll order enough resistors for all the flasher boards since they are only $1 and since they go bad often, I might as well have them on hand or eventually just replace them all. Attached is a pic of my shopping cart at macrospecialties. Let me know if I am on the right track.

As a side note, I recently just replaced all the bulbs that are not the 89 flashers with LEDs. No one at cointaker, pinballlife, or a couple other websites could tell me which flasher board resistor I needed to cut or do something with to replace the 89s with LEDs. Would I be cutting these resistors, just the smaller warming resistor, or something else for that? Just curious ... as an alternative. Thanks a bunch for the technical help!

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#37 3 years ago

Put a jumper across the larger resistor and test once as it will burn out the bulb quickly, but then you will know that everything else is working as it should. The resistors don't go bad that often, so get what you need and 2 extra. They go bad when not installed properly. If your going to use LEDs then don't buy the 330 ohm resistors as you don't need them. Just remove the ones you have and install the LEDs.

#38 3 years ago

Thanks Grumpy! I put a jumper across the larger resistor and both flasher bulbs on the circuit worked.

#39 3 years ago

Well on your way to having this completed. This is a good board for learning to solder on as it has larger traces. If the cement resistor has bumps on the ends, these are used to hold the resistor off the board for air circulation. If there is no bumps then hold resistor off the board a 1/4" with a spacer when you solder. When you put the resistor leads thru the board holes, cut them off @ 1/4" long and bend over on top of the trace that they get soldered to. This gives them a mechanical bond. Then solder them on and they will never fall off again. Remove the spacer after soldering.

#40 3 years ago

By the way King do you really live in Hell or does it just seem that way.

#41 3 years ago

Hoping to have my F-14 brought home Friday. Will post pics as soon as I can.

#42 3 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

By the way King do you really live in Hell or does it just seem that way

We're just a couple miles from downtown Hell, MI - a block long gimmicky tourist point of interest with the Dam Site Inn bar that does have a small working dam behind it that produces some power to area businesses and homes. On devil's night they have a Hurst parade and people/Hursts come from out-of-state for that.

Thanks for the help and tips!

#43 3 years ago
Quoted from KingBW:

We're just a couple miles from downtown Hell, MI - a block long gimmicky tourist point of interest with the Dam Site Inn bar that does have a small working dam behind it that produces some power to area businesses and homes. On devil's night they have a Hurst parade and people/Hursts come from out-of-state for that.
Thanks for the help and tips!

Hearse

10351101_673389439407413_4546651413509047222_n.jpg

#44 3 years ago

Sounds like a very fun town.

#45 3 years ago

Grumpy...here's where I am with my diagnostics. I have found the right resistor boards underneath the PF for flashers 4 and 6. I put the pin into test mode, stopped respectively at flasher 4 and 6 as you describe above in the thread. I jumped the driver connection to the ground on each board and the lights did NOT flash. The bulbs have been replaced if I haven't said that already. I get 28V to the driver connection on both boards. I get 28V to the lamp connection on each board. I did a continuity check on the driver wire to the diode board. So I guess the wires are good. Should I perform the "jumper across the larger resistor" test?

Do you think I'm looking at the same repair as KingBW?

#46 3 years ago

It's funny that you got 28v on the driver terminal and when you grounded it, the lamp did NOT flash. This can happen when measuring voltage and there's a bad connnection in the circuit. So I would check both leads of the large resistor for cracked solder joints, cracked leads or a cracked resistor. If you find nothing then jumper the resistor and retest. If it works with the jumper then replace the 5 ohm 10 watt resistor.

#47 3 years ago

Grumpy...Success, just like KingBW. I jumpered the large resistor on the resistor boards for flashers 4 and 6 and all lamps flashed! That was exciting to see. Any reason I shouldnt just go ahead and replace both resistor boards with brand new ones I ordered from Marco? I'm excited to get these lamps flashing! I've had the F14 about 15 years and they've never worked. I'm very grateful for your help.

#48 3 years ago

You are now a pinball repairman.
Go buy yourself a beer!

#49 3 years ago

Hahaha. Will do and if I could I'd buy you one as well. I'm sure I'll talk to you again. There's always a next repair!

#50 3 years ago

I got my LED flashers from CoinTaker but my resistors have not arrived yet - shipment has been stuck in SC for the past 5 days [Argh!]. I'm choosing to just replace the large resistor and cut the small "warming" one on this circuit (that originally fell off) just to see if the new LED flashers work first, before I starting messing with other flasher boards for the new LEDs. If this works, then all lights will the be switched over to LEDs. Can't wait. Once that is done I'll be posting a video on pinside of many upgrades/facelifts/LED comparisons performed on this F14 over the past several months [in spare time] along with problems/negatives with some of these upgrades.

We both owe you a beer!

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