(Topic ID: 311083)

F14 common white switch wire problem to slingshots and jet bumper

By ezed123

2 years ago


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  • 18 posts
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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by GRUMPY
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#1 2 years ago

I have everything working from a project F14 except the slingshots and jet bumper. Coils are good and fire in coil test. In game play they do not work because the switches are not activating. Here is the issue.

There is a solid white wire that runs as a common from 1 left slingshot switch to 1 right slingshot switch to the jet bumper switch. All tone out with continuity test. The white wire goes to the backbox in a wire bundle but I found that wire terminated in the wire bundle - connected to nothing. I know it’s the same common switch wire I mentioned because it tones out back to the slingshots and jet bumper switches.

I’ve looked at the schematics but can’t find anything that shows where it should be connected to.

I alligator clipped that white wire to my main ground braid thinking it was supposed to be grounded. The slingshots and jet bumper then worked for a short while after grounding this wire but ultimately kept blowing the 2.5 amp SB fuse under the playfield associated with the slingshots and jet bumper.

It’s a 22 gauge white wire so I don’t believe it goes to the power supply and it’s not the solid white going to 1J11.

Any help would be appreciated. Some pics attached. I found this wire in a wire bundle that was taking wires to 1J18 and 1J19.

GRUMPY to the rescue?

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#2 2 years ago

Just look at the switch matrix table in the manual. It will tell you which connector the white with various color wires go to. Looks like it’s 1J10. The switch doesn’t go directly to ground. It sends a low voltage signal when activated to the game processor which then tells a driver transistor circuit to activate the solenoid coil by sending the Solonoid voltage to ground. The wire may have been replaced at some point, so if it doesn’t have the right color coding then just focus on getting it to the right connector location per the switch matrix.

#3 2 years ago
Quoted from luckymoey:

Just look at the switch matrix table in the manual. It will tell you which connector the white with various color wires go to. Looks like it’s 1J10. The switch doesn’t go directly to ground. It sends a low voltage signal when activated to the game processor which then tells a driver transistor circuit to activate the solenoid coil by sending the Solonoid voltage to ground.

This is not correct. The switch matrix switches on the slings/pop are the scoring switches only. These 3 solenoids are special solenoids so the activation switches do connect a path to ground, but there is no one-shot built into this - as long as the activation switch is closed, the solenoid is firing, which is likely why it was either disconnected (path to ground somewhere it shouldn't be) or when testing, OP held on the switch too long when testing.

The inputs to the special solenoid chips from the playfield are connected floating to the chips - the other path (the white wire) is the ground the chips expect to fire.

#4 2 years ago

So if I am understanding you correctly @slochar, the white I found IS a ground for these special solenoids? Because these 3 solenoids only fire in coil test and if I have the white wire grounded. I was pretty sure that the switch matrix had nothing to do with this wire as all of the white/stripe wires are accounted for on the 1J10 connector.

So what is my next step?

#5 2 years ago

Here is the snippet from the manual showing how the special solenoids are triggered. Ground is applied to the gate input, which causes the transistors to activate. There is a resistor and capacitor on each of the special solenoids that provide a minimum time for the circuit to trigger, in the case of a quick hit. They are not one shots though, in that as long as the switches are closed (grounded), the circuit is active. Some people fuse these solenoids individually for protection.

The driver transistors for your specials on f-14 are left sling Q75, right sling Q71, pop Q69. The game also uses the alternate path (what it normally uses to activate special solenoids in solenoid test, vs. grounding the input) for the diverters, those are Q77 and Q79.

Your 3 specials all go through U45 this is the activation chip. The predriver transistors are all 1 Q # down from the main transistor, so Q74-Q75, Q70-A71, and Q68-Q69.

Where the activation switches get their ground from doesn't appear to be easily shown in the manual. You've followed the lose wire physically through the harness or just tested it with a meter? Hopefully someone with an f14 handy can try and trace where that wire goes. Mine is buried or I'd take a peek myself for you.

Is it possible that you have some bum fuses? It's not unheard of but pretty uncommon. Another thought, if you turn the game on and start a game and just leave it for a while without playing, do any of the kicker or pop solenoids get warm? Perhaps the transistors are passing just enough current to not pull in the solenoid but are sort of active. (leaky)

As far as circuits in the system 11 world go, this one is pretty basic. People get confused when it works in solenoid test for instance but not in gameplay or vice versa, not realizing it's 2 differing activation paths.

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#6 2 years ago

Wow slochar thanks so much for digging and and explaining this to me. Honestly all of this information is just a bit above my pay grade. I do follow and understanding but I’m not sure how to translate this info into finding the solve for my issue.

Answering your question did I physically follow the wire through and test with a meter. My answer is BOTH. I did follow the white wire from switch to switch to switch and then up to the head in the wire bundle that holds all of the wires for 1J18 and 1J 19. Then I tested continuity from the end of the wire in the head back to each switch so I’m positive this is where the wire goes.

Can anyone else out there give me an idea where this wire goes to?

@grumpy???

#7 2 years ago

The ground has to come from somewhere for sure for the switch activations - my f14 manual copy doesn't have schematics in it for the boards that would hopefully call this out, I looked in a couple others to see if I could find where the ground comes from, but didn't spot it on a cursory look.

It might be helpful to individually fuse each of the special solenoids that way, and at a lower amperage (1A slow blow should work, or 1.5) - then if it's always the one that's attached to the left sling, for instance you know you have an issue there.

GRUMPY just responded to someone in the pinbot owner's thread regarding more info on special solenoids if you want to peek there.

#8 2 years ago

Ok thanks so much for your time and input slochar.

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from ezed123:

Can anyone else out there give me an idea where this wire goes to?

It can go on pin 6 or 7.

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#10 2 years ago

Thanks for jumping in on this Grumpy. You have helped me in the past with System 9 and 11 games. You are great. I will pin that now and report back. It makes sense because that is the wire bundle it traveled in to the head and terminated in the proximity of that connector.

#11 2 years ago

Ok here’s what happened. I pinned the white wire into position 6 on the connector, started a game with the glass off and moved the ball around by hand. Both left and right slings worked and jet bumper did also. Then after approx 20 seconds the 2-1/2amp slo blow fuse blew under the playfield. Any suggestions as to why the fuse blew? It appears to have blown when the right sling was activated for the 2nd or 3rd time.

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from ezed123:

It appears to have blown when the right sling was activated for the 2nd or 3rd time.

This is the reason somebody removed it from the connector. Check the diverter coils, cut off the diodes and test them for the correct ohms and replace the diodes with new if the ohms checks out. Then start a game and test the left sling and pop coils only for a few minutes to see if the fuse holds. If good then try the right sling for a minute. Is the fuse burning now. Or did the fuse just burn after 20 seconds again?

#13 2 years ago

On thanks grumpy. I’ll do that later today and report back

1 week later
#14 2 years ago

Hi Grumpy sorry for the delay had family in for the week. I tested the ohms on the diodes and they all checked good but changed the diodes anyway on the slings and pop coils. All coils test well. When I did the test with left sling only the fuse held up for 6 tries then blown fuse. Replaces fuse and tried pop after a few times fuse blown. So. What do I try next? Thanks!

#15 2 years ago

If you just start a game but don't hit any of the 3 coils, does the fuse blow if left this way for 10 min?

#16 2 years ago

No the fuse does NOT blow if the slings or pop bumper are not hit

#17 2 years ago

PROBLEM RESOLVED
Thanks to everyone (especially @grumpy) who helped me with this issue. After changing the diodes and following all of the other items on the punch list I discovered that the pop bumper switch was slightly closed and the contacts on the switch we’re too close to each other. This was causing the short and blowing the 2-1/2 amp slow blo fuse.

Once I adjusted the switch back to proper gap, I’ve had at least 25 games played and zero fuses blown.

Sometimes it’s just something small that kicks our butts but “that’s pinball”

Thanks again. ezed123

#18 2 years ago
Quoted from ezed123:

I discovered that the pop bumper switch was slightly closed

There you go, problem solved. Great job.

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