Quoted from Oneangrymo:Yeah I dont know about you guys, but my income hasn't increased at all, in fact its been stagnant for 10 years, yet everything keeps going up!
Help!
I truly feel sorry for you. Thoughts and prayers.
(Topic ID: 300400)
You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider palmer.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
Quoted from Gameseum:If this hobby focused more on "getting what I paid for it" rather than "value" we'd have a lovely pool of games and a stagnant pricing for everything, but alas that's not the way
Considering the source, I find this hilarious. Steven have you ever sold a game in your life for the same amount you purchased it for? Actually have you ever sold a game period?
Quoted from PoppyCock:Deleted post
Please tell me where your nearest community college is so I can enroll you in an economics class. If you think inflation was solely created in the last 8 months, then I have a bridge to sell you.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:Not solely created in last 9 months,
but as a business owner, we have seen the most dramatic impact in the last 8 months out of our 20 years in business
- Price increases from just about all vendors - some multiple increases from same vendors
- difficulty getting product
- increase in shipping costs and time
- wage increases ....
Absolutely. I was just challenging the thought that inflation rose as a direct result of a change in leadership. This has been a long time coming, spanning multiple terms. Each one kicking the can down the road. I can't even imagine the challenges of being a business owner... especially in the last 18 months.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:2000:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/gzU8ZAOxvUE/qII_fx4klQ0J
2001:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20decrease%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/3XZf_itbXjY/QI04T4Qr9UkJ
2002:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20price$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/8CDhldb5kyw/JxQRQPIGmQwJ
2003:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20market$20price$20fall%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/clAO0zIHHfQ/CbExiOZrldIJ
2004:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20decrease%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/pXZDb-2V6Yk/GSPWq06-nWsJ
2005:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/ACTs0HpQktA/x-C5LZAF180J
2006:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20price$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/dBrqPnk7mkk/nQYyh65_fewJ
2007:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20prices$20fall%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/femnxuH8a1k/oeXzsItDbOQJ
2008:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/44iMVjwb68o/wXb8-3F9vOIJ
2009:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20market%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/JsgTrS05pCc/8pB5t9oUqTAJ
2010:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20market%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/hNRZGnOAZ-Y/bs8Js1M7sUAJ
2011:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/DlcZoruS0Bo/VO_cueyPCEQJ
2012:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-think-it-cant-happen-think-again
2013:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-will-pop
2014:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/this-is-not-a-rebirth-of-pinball-its-a-bubble
2015:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/we-all-want-the-ass-to-drop-out-of-pinball
2016:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/when-will-the-stern-bubble-burst
2017:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/are-we-in-a-pinball-bubble
2018:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-i-feel-pinball-prices-are-going-to-plummet
2019:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/will-pinball-prices-come-down-
2020:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/prices-dropping-
2021 (this year has been a fuggin BANNER YEAR for price bubble threads...maybe it's something in the vaccines):
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-pricing-bubble-due-to-covid-one-nine
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/similarities-with-pinball-market-amp-the-2008-housing-crash
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/next-pinball-depression-
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-feel-about-these-exorbitant-pinball-prices/page/2#post-6254131
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pingreed-is-a-cancer-is-there-a-cure
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/prices-of-pinball-machines-today#post-6229413
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinflation-or-inflation
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/price-gouging
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/f-you-stern-and-your-price-increases
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/are-pinballs-the-beanie-baby-craze-of-the-2020s
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/we-have-jumped-the-shark
This just needs to be a sticky somewhere that is one link to avoid forum blow out. You are like the Jim Cramer of Pinside Levi.
Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:FACT majority of pin buyers are not OPS they are home owners. Ops I know are going after cheaper games now, they really do earn about the same from my personal experience. Why pay double for a new stern as an op to fill a slot when a classic wpc can get you the same coin drop?
We literally had an OP post a few hours ago that he needs the latest and greatest every time. WPC is not much cheaper nowadays. I suppose it depends on the title but generally the more popular, the more expensive. Are you an OP because you say older games earn about the same from your own personal experience.
Quoted from TheLaw:Ummm BUILD QUALITY hello?!?
Yes put both on a scale. The heavier one is MOAR QUALITY.
Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:You surmised accurately.
But I would also even say depending on the title they earn even less as a whole, star wars and Ghostbusters did triple than any of my other games for about two weeks when I dropped them, then earned less than half of said games because regulars knew their own ball times and didn't see the value with such brutal games. By the time I made them easy it was too late. I would imagine turtles is the same way. I finally pulled those- Ghostbusters went home(love it) starwars I rented to a dentist for while for kids room.
Every op I'm sure is different but ops I know aren't running a Stern army at their locations it's just too expensive.
I always like hearing from the op's perspective. Thanks for sharing.
Quoted from Scandell:Downvote my post if you have never sold one of your games for more than you purchased it for.
You're not selling a game for more than you paid for. You are selling a deposit for more than you paid for. You are scalping the right to buy a game and used a lame excuse that you don't like the theme.
Why put a deposit on a game where you don't like the theme? Theme is the one thing you can absolutely determine whether you like or not from the launch video and photos. You could at least make the argument of selling off your deposit after a gameplay reveal. "Oh I don't like how the game shoots, etc." But theme? Cmon. Then to add 2K onto an already marked up price.
Why not be completely honest? You bought it to flip...period. Just own up to it. Doesn't make it right but at least you are honest. Would at least have a small bit of respect for you.
Quoted from epthegeek:The thing that drives people nuts is that you're profit-taking on game you decided you don't want. If you just decided you don't want it after learning the details, why not just let it go at cost to someone who does want it?
Because....CAPITALISM!
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Again none of what I said means one companies games are better or more fun then the other
Riiiiiiiiiight
Quoted from Gameseum:The fact that it took 7 years after 2010 is laughable.
You also have to account for content that goes on that screen. Most people will default to "Use movie clips" but then you need to license all that material which costs money. If doing animation, you need to pay someone to do that as well as design everything else for the screen which also costs money. The pivot to LCD screens wasn't because screens got cheaper. I mean it helps but the content that goes on the screen costs waaaaay more than the screen itself.
Quoted from Gameseum:Such a shame because I feel like Ghostbusters would have been a home run with an LCD. Now I can't even play the dang thing, having gotten a taste of pinball with LCDs.
I guess if you like to stare at the screen when you are playing. Most people look down at the playfield. Maybe I am in the minority here?
Quoted from dsmoke1986:No, it hasn’t. Stern should chill on pumping out 3 new titles a year considering they are backed up on everything.
I am pretty sure Stern is doing well enough that they don't need your advice regarding their business. Games take at least a year or two to develop so it's not like they are going to stop future releases when people continue to buy their games despite the backlog. That is just dumb.
Quoted from acedanger:If there’s a design system in place doesn’t require an excessive amount of time to create animations it’s not at the caliber of a MCU special effects scene. Most of the assets are ready to animate in after effects or character animator.
So because it isn't the level of MCU special effects it doesn't take any time at all? What exactly do you mean ready to animate in after effects?
Quoted from WeirPinball:Actually it isn't dumb - they can pump out more of the existing design which is already paid for instead of engineering a bunch of new designs. Nvidia is doing this by firing up the old 2060 cards just to help fill demand.
And at the new price point - bottom line means more profit.
Is this a graphic cardgument now? Why are you comparing two completely different consumer goods. Does anyone use pinball machines to mine cryptocurrency?
Quoted from Frax:3D model is rigged for animation with "bones" that can be moved around, most likely.
After Effects is not a 3D animation program...well technically it can do 3D but not really what most animators use for 3D. That isn't the point though. He talks as if the majority of the heavy lifting is done. Also glosses over graphic design and UI. All of these things take time. Just because it is an LCD screen doesn't make content easier to make for it.
Quoted from WeirPinball:If you read the entire post I was talking about making older models not comparing two industies
I did read it. You did make a comparison. Apples and oranges.
Quoted from WeirPinball:Agreed - but I was really talking about their current "in production" vs trying to crank out a ton of new designs. I guess they have to watch that they don't fall behind either.
Yea I figured you meant in production. It does suck for buyers that have to pay a price increase after they committed to buying a game at the lower price. I didn't expect Stern to honor those prices but I think a lot of people are legitimately pissed off because not only are they now waiting longer for a game, but that game costs significantly more.
Quoted from acedanger:Dude I have over 20 years experience with animation & creating vector raster artwork I’m no graphic artist more of a designer. That being said in my opinion their animations are relatively simple it does require time; but if your lens was as sharp as mine you would clearly see it doesn’t require a tremendous amount of man hours.
I have the same amount of experience in the same field. I think you are starting to stray away from my original point. When you are comparing content made for DMDs and LCDs....LCDs have more going on. The original argument is why didn't Stern move to LCDs sooner because they were so cheap. Making content for LCDs is much more expensive than the hardware itself. Compare the amount of content on a DMD to and LCD game.
Quoted from acedanger:What are talking about from all the animations I’ve seen are clearly 2d. It’s not Pixar.
Also wanted to add...because I think this is important...there is a lot of room for improvement with LCD animation. But I imagine the current state is because of the production schedule of games, the amount of people doing that job (one person?), and just what is allowed to be used based on the IP holder.
Quoted from Rarehero:They were actually doing 3D on DMDs…which was probably a transitional ramp up to LCD. Star Trek had some 3D modeled scenes of the Enterprise (or Vengeance?), Goatf***ers has tons of 3D…the Ecto-1 scenes, for example. It’s just downrez’d & displayed as dots.
It’s not about finding them. It’s about affording to pay a crew vs. 1 dude & creating a schedule/pipeline that Stern has never done before after doing dots since the 90s.
Gary should have taken a page from deeproot and hire an entire studio to do animation 
What about JJP? How many people do they dedicate to screen content?
Quoted from KingVidiot:Just a rough guess, since Spooky sells pins at well above 5K, and we all know how they’re the only pinball maker not in it for profit... right?.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:No, this thread is about crybabies with too much money hurling invective at a company (which doesn't have feelings) because pinball machines cost money.
I've pointed out that to me pinball people seem unreasonably obsessed about money, all they want to talk about is prices and money and little else, and now you want to argue about guitars.
It seems like pinball people take this all way too seriously and personally and I don't understand it. This thread is bizarre. If you are getting your feelings hurt by pinball prices, or find yourself getting lathered into a boiling rage once a year when pinball prices go up, you should either find a new hobby or try to get some perspective.
If you are buying NIB games, it seems odd to be this obsessed and angry about prices, as you obviously have more money than about 90 percent of the people on the planet.
I mean, "F U STERN?" For 17 pages?
Seriously? Are we all in 6th grade?
I don’t see nonsense like this on the guitar forums. People complain but it’s never at such a visceral, juvenile level.
Stop making guitarguments. 
1 week later
Quoted from PanzerFreak:pretty much all GNR playfield issues stopped with the late June and going forward builds
Quoted from PanzerFreak:You act as if you are hoping for all JJP owners to have playfield issues, that's sad. We get it, you don't like JJP.
He is a realist.
3 months later
You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider palmer.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
