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Looks like I'm going to write off buying sterns - with the new price hike - I just cancelled my deadpool order - It's to a point where they crossed the line. Bummer because they have some titles I still wanted to get. Someone has to start saying no - Looks like I'll be one of them.
Quoted from GrandFireball1:What was the new DP price?
Across the board jump with Godzilla release. Hey at least we are in an arcade renaissance - looks like I'll be dropping quarters in the future
Quoted from swampfire:Why do you have the same profile pic as zr11990?
In memory of Who-Dey
Quoted from DadofTwins:I saw the new price points and about $hit my pants! First thought that popped into my head? I can play a ton of location games for that money, at my leisure, and have no maintenance costs nor deal with factory playfield problems.
Exactly why my 44 pin collection has been reduced to 9 and still selling
Quoted from jester523:You don't think the value is there if the machine retains value or even appreciates?
Let's see how that works if the housing and stock markets take a dive
Glad I've had the pleasure of owning over 250 pins in the last 13 or so years. It's been a good ride and did better than my investments
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:If I'm not mistaken, if your deadpool you had on order was made this year, it would only incur a $200 price increase to cover the insider connected platform. After the new year, they get the new Godzilla rate.
Guess when the next run is
Honestly I understand the reasoning behind the hike, I just can't justify buying them anymore. Maybe I've just been in the hobby too long. People told me I was crazy for paying the prices I did 13 years ago.
Another aspect of this I never liked was the across the board hike, so because Godzilla shows up with a huge increase, Deadpool also increases the same amount. How much was do going for at the launch?
Quoted from Enron64:I do go and play games on location but that being said I really enjoy playing in the comfort of my own house. I can pour a beer, have the volume as loud as I want and play in my underwear lol
And you can hear the game sounds...
Quoted from brickbuilder14:The price of EVERYTHING that is scarce, hard to duplicate, and involves labor or materials has gone up significantly due to inflation. In 2019 an LE was $9,000. Now it’s $10,500. That is a small 15% increase.
Now let me ask you all a question. How much has your home increased in value since 2019? 20%??? 30%???
How about your stock portfolio? How much has it increased since 2019? 50%?? 75%??
Pinball pricing is currently below other assets.
The US dollar is no longer worth what it was just two short years ago. Everyone reading this has seen their house and stocks and any other assets they own increase in value due to inflation.
Inflation will be the biggest problem in the US over the coming years. This is simply par for the course right now.
And everyone cashed out of their house right? That is a paper gain at this point. Now does it make you feel weathier - probably
Quoted from Gameseum:There's three guys in a room:
Guy A bought a Twilight Zone for $1,000 and expects $1,000 out of it.
Guy B bought a Twilight Zone for $1,000 and expects $8,000 out of it.
Guy C bought a Twilight Zone for $8,000 and expects $8,000 out of it.
Guy A wins (and sleeps the best at night) whether the market continues to skyrocket, or crashes. I'd say Guy C is the only one at risk, and Guy B is just being a greedy bitch that can't really suffer a loss or a risk rather than one that is perceived, rather than an actual loss considering he only paid a grand for the thing.
If this hobby focused more on "getting what I paid for it" rather than "value" we'd have a lovely pool of games and a stagnant pricing for everything, but alas that's not the way the world turns.
This is more focused on the used games but all in all it all affects new game pricing as well
You forot guy D who repairs/restores a,b, and C's pins 
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:It's tempting to sell at these prices, but what would I spend the money on? Everything else is inflated right now. And what's cooler to own than pins? And I don't love the idea of sitting on more fiat currency during an inflationary period.
Exactly where I'm at. Not sure what to buy, but no more nib pins for me.
Quoted from Gameseum:Guy D wasn't in the room because Guy B said he was firm on his $30 offer to repin the entire set of boards because the game "is old"
Better yet guy b pays d to restore and pimp the game to flip, then c pays d to undo all the mods. D finally reveals he is really a.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:I think the elephant in the room both sides are missing is that alot of the LE buyers are buying simply to get a machine in hand, now. If I'm not mistaken, there is still a backlog of orders for Mandalorian Premium and Stern is moving on to the next pin without delivering them. Buying an LE gets you moved to the front of the line. I wonder how much of the demand for LEs will disappear once you can go to your local distributor and buy most premiums again with no wait.
LEs do not come out first - you don't get a fast pass and skip the line.
Quoted from Mitoska:Yes I agree ., It is bullshit when companies raise prices for know reason and just say that's the market..so unfair...oh wait..but not when your the seller right??? You want people to pay your ridiculous prices right..get the most you can...works both ways.
[quoted image]
I don't want people to pay those prices - people pay the prices. The market is insane right now. I'm selling everything not nailed down except for the two games I got from whodey. I'm just choosing not to buy any more due to pinflation. I also have been flipping GPUs since people are insane in that market as well.
Quoted from metallik:Mandalorian LEs did indeed come before the premiums. Some Pros for locations preceded those, but mostly for ops and no premiums. If you want the premium features, the LE is the quickest way to obtain them nowadays.
The point he was making was that if you buy an le - you are going to get a game now - just not the case.
Quoted from jawjaw:With inflation that's around $5900 today. Decent one worth as much or more today as well. People always complain about buying prices but don't hear anyone complain about prices when selling a pin. Nobody seems to be complaining about LE prices crossing $10000. Why? Because you can flip them for much more.
Damn, I'm so pissed that I sold my original alien for only $11,500 (true story) how dare they charge 9k for a refake.
Quoted from metallik:Depends, you could get lucky on the Stern direct-sales site, or have an 'in' with a distributor. Or just pay a flipper. Either way you'd have premium features before premium buyers.
True - but his point wasn't about getting before the premium, just getting a pin now.
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:Ah, so you're one of those people making it so I can't GPUs at MSRP for clients that need high end GPUs for design work. Those people aren't insane, they are trying to make a living and do their work.
Thanks.
No - that's where people are wrong it isn't me flipping 3 gpus that is doing that - the market has changed with crypto and they don't care what they pay. I have a gaming pc without a gpu right now because the world is insane.
I also found out a friend that builds virtual pins business was hurting because of the gpu market, so I managed to get him a card (and no I didn't mark it up)
Quoted from nicoy3k:Yes you do. They are making a few pros now and LEs go on the line the end of September. All LEs will be delivered by Halloween. After that, I don’t think you see more Godzilla’s made until 2022
you just contradicted yourself.
Gotta say, this thread is the most fun I've had on pinside in a while. Truth be told the market is what it is - can't blame anyone for taking what they can get these days including Stern.
Quoted from midcoastsurf:Anyone ever look at the posters complaining about price hikes only to see $50k-$100k+ collections in their profile?
Take a look at my history - only had a max of 44 at one time, but went through a few in my time.
Quoted from Haymaker:Shooting games get boring so quick. I'd spend the extra money on a new pin any day. These price increases do suck though. Glad I got my DP back in May for 5600 shipped to my door.
That's what I'm worried about -does look cool, but it also says it is 1500 lbs - ouch
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Speaking of price increases:
From Replay Magazine: Stern to charge monthly fee for code and features associated with online platform.
Quote:
All-Access Connected is a subscription version of the experience, focused on providing additional player features along with behind-the-scenes development stuff, early access, special events and quests. In the future, we intend to create exclusive game extensions, such as special access to new modes or new rules and features to increase the All-Access Connected value.
https://www.replaymag.com/stern-pinball-insider-connected-0921/
does that mean you pay for code updates?
Quoted from PanzerFreak:The real comparison there is Wonka LE and GNR LE versus Godzilla LE, those are the comparable models due to the extra LE features from both companies.
Godzilla LE and GNR LE are now about the same price. I would say Stern with Godzilla LE has matched GNR LE in terms of features on the playfield. However, will Godzilla have the same animation, lighting, and sound quality as JJP games? N, not in my opinion. The bigger question is will Stern now offer Godzilla premium / LE like amount of features in all games moving forward? At these insane prices I hope so but probably not, look at Ghostbusters premium / LE and some of the more empty games that followed despite being the same price.
Why do all Stern's cost the same when some clearly have more features then the other? If Godzilla Premium is $9k then LZ Premium should remain at $7700 due to one game clearly having more in it then the other. There's no reason for all Stern's to be priced the same when some are far more loaded then others.
I think JJP has the best value if you look at price per insert.
Quoted from chuckwurt:Get big buck Hunter. Very addictive and competitive.
Had one - very challenging game. - or are you talking about the arcade?
Quoted from nicoy3k:How so? There is a multiple thousand game back log and LEs will be made in two weeks.
You said a few pros will be made before the les
Quoted from Viggin900:You started this thread by saying "F you stern and your price increase"?
Yes - I've contradicted myself many time here already - but I'm still out with this pricing.
Quoted from KornFreak28:I have a DP pre-order, Did the price increase for DP pre-orders as well?
Best to ask your distro.
Quoted from zh2oson:[quoted image]
Now that is funny
All these inflated prices have me thinking about building a Stern Cheetah or Star Gazer to flip. Already done it with a Bally Viking for someone else....
Quoted from swampfire:If you want to make $10-20 an hour, that’s a good plan. Could be enjoyable too of course.
par for the course I do this because I enjoy it - never keep track of hours because I probably wouldn't do it.
DSCN1450 (resized).JPGDSCN1451 (resized).JPGQuoted from Mark1971:Happy to pay what ever Stern charges, I say if you can't afford it find a new hobby. Maybe collect beanie babies or Barbie dolls, you could start a collection of board games or you can get another job and stop crying because you are not successful enough to afford nice stuff. Either way less crying about pricing would be great because nobody cares if you have a game or not
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I wouldn't try to say anyone can't afford the games. Some can, some can't. Some like me are deciding to pass on nib pins for now. Thank for the tip on Barbies, have any you could recommend to someone new to that market? 
For the true story on how this thread started, I got the info from someone stern was jacking prices again. I had THREE pros on order at the time trying to build up my collection a bit again. When I saw what the price hike was ($800 per pro) that was $2400 that I wasn't counting on paying. Verified with the distro that the hike was real. Got a bit fired up and started this thread. My own fault for waiting so long to buy more, but I just couldn't write off another $2400 and say what the hell.
Quoted from NightTrain:Ah. That gives the reason for starting the thread a little more context. That would grind my gears too. Especially if you already had the order in!
The problem with the "queue" system is it is just a waitlist, when your number gets filled you pay what they are currently charging.
They are so far behind shipping games that I was way down the queue not sure when I would have got them. Especially now that godzilla is announced that will probably take priority over other titles.
Quoted from Palmer:I am pretty sure Stern is doing well enough that they don't need your advice regarding their business. Games take at least a year or two to develop so it's not like they are going to stop future releases when people continue to buy their games despite the backlog. That is just dumb.
Actually it isn't dumb - they can pump out more of the existing design which is already paid for instead of engineering a bunch of new designs. Nvidia is doing this by firing up the old 2060 cards just to help fill demand.
And at the new price point - bottom line means more profit.
Quoted from Zablon:I will agree that all the CGC games I've played feel...more fragile...than others, but that being said, my MBr has been flawless.
Working on modding this for a friend this week
DSCN1454 (resized).JPGQuoted from Palmer:Is this a graphic cardgument now? Why are you comparing two completely different consumer goods. Does anyone use pinball machines to mine cryptocurrency?
If you read the entire post I was talking about making older models not comparing two industies
Quoted from kciaccio:Good idea, But it isn't as easy as you think.
Bringing back Tron takes some doing because they don't have the old system parts anymore. You would have to adapt it to the new electronics in the market now.
Still easier than a new pin design but it isn't just dusting off the old blue prints and ramp up a production line in a week.
Agreed - but I was really talking about their current "in production" vs trying to crank out a ton of new designs. I guess they have to watch that they don't fall behind either.
Quoted from Palmer:Yea I figured you meant in production. It does suck for buyers that have to pay a price increase after they committed to buying a game at the lower price. I didn't expect Stern to honor those prices but I think a lot of people are legitimately pissed off because not only are they now waiting longer for a game, but that game costs significantly more.
I don't blame the distributors either - they are just trying to sell product. Would be nice if you could "lock in" a reservation at a price.
Quoted from Methos:The CGC MB is the worst of the lot. Know quite a few people that moved it really quick.
Not mine - so I didn't make the call
I don't really think there is a "preorder" system with Stern. It's more of a reservation with the distributor to get one of there allocated games. Each distributor will handle it their own way. I had no $$ down but maybe some take $$ up front. The distributors are at the mercy of Stern setting the price for each run of games.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:I thought the exact opposite, it was those with not enough money
The ones with too much money don't give a shit
Wrong on both accounts - I started this thread because I had 3 new sterns preordered (pros) - when I found out that it would be $800 increase each - $2400 total I said F-that and cancelled. I did this because I don't think a pro is worth 8K when you play Russian roulette with pf quality, etc. I have the money, but I didn't get this way by saying what the hell its only another 2400...
I will still be cruising the used market incase a decent opportunity comes up.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:But if you literally had too much money, you would not of cared
Now that is true- can't argue there
Quoted from luch:too funny ,this car wash talk is too much ! lol I actually own a car wash , self serve and touchless .
[quoted image]
Time to raise your rates!
Quoted from pinnyheadhead:Back to basics. What was the new price on your DP?
I asked if it would be the new godzilla pro price and I was told it would be the new price - didn't even ask the specifics. Remember I was like mid twenties in line for dp so that probably wouldn't have been until next year
Quoted from NPO:Doesn't LE imply that there's only so many....?
Or is that "only so many....until the next run!!!" ...?
I thought that was JJPs motto - limited, but this one is a different color so it's a new limited run
Quoted from pinnyheadhead:Location play is great. That place looks amazing. If you have a place like that close by why have any at home anyway??
Hope all is well.
That's the way I'm leaning - sold most of my 44 pin collection and looking forward to supporting local places like the pinball garage
Quoted from NPO:Lol.
*bunny ears/air quote*
"Limited"
Alien just bumped their LV limited from 500 to 1000 to cash in. Everyone aboard the price increase express!
steam-train.gifQuoted from CrazyLevi:This also makes no sense.
They used the AP cabinet because that’s what AP cabinets look like. I mean if they hated that design (which also makes little sense as the design is about 3 years old; why’d they change their mind?) surely they’d have used all the ones “lying around” for Oktoberfest right?
Look I’m just throwing my cards on the table here;
I doubt the veracity of the “parts lying around” theory, and the provided “examples” have yet to sway my thinking!
Hell I got enough parts laying around to make a machine or two...
Quoted from CrazyLevi:All I know is the guy who said stern was pushing him out of the hobby with their cruel price increases is still turboposting here, so I’d guess at least one guy has joined the F ME club.
Based on post numbers there is only 1 turboposter here...
Quoted from NPO:Not gonna lie: stopped caring almost 3 years ago now.
Just takes WAY too long, and the price increases in those 3 years.....I highly HIGHLY doubt we'll see CCr at original run of MM/AFM/MB price points.
Lets take a guess at pricing - New Stern 10.5K - New JJP - 11K so my guess is low enough to create a "value" feeling, but high enough to make the most $$
so... $8999
Quoted from Zablon:Why do you need a 4 year old game NIB? Why not just buy a used one?
Hit the nail on the head, but as stated try finding a used one is just as bad. I dont want one with 1000+ in mods either - don't get me started on FU pinstadiums on a newer stern.
Quoted from mrgone:Mother f@$&%#+’!!!!!!
I just heard Deadpool pro moved from December 2021 to who the f&$@ knows.
And of course a nearly 1k price increase.
And of course I paid in full back in June.
The only good part is I went through a good distributor.
I’m staying as this is my and my wife’s dream theme and most likely Our only nib game.
Especially now with the crazy stupid price increases.
Looks like I was right on dropping out - glad you are holding the fort though. I'm still trying to find a used alien also....
Quoted from GravitaR:A Distro will pay shipping and/or pay taxes upon picking games up from the Manufacturer, so not free in any case.
A lot of games are just drop shipped and come directly from stern so definitely shipping not included
How about paying 300 to 500 to put a nuclear reactor (pin stadiums) in a brand new game - I have to wear sunglasses to play even without them. I don't get it.
I've still been trying to find any games on my list in stock (before the price increase) with no luck, so looks like no new games for me.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Look at the bright side...the time to buy Stern games before the NEXT price increase is right now.
Buy them before the F U 2 thread!
Exactly
Quoted from FalconDriver:Have a pre order since Feb think about cancelling. Seems like it setting up to receive after Jan.
what title?
Quoted from Hammerhead1550:Anyone know of a distributor that has a Munsters premium in stock, or a good distributor to try? I was told the next run to fill back orders won't be until next year after the price increase, and I'll be out if that happens.
tough to find anything in stock I've been burning up google trying to find a few games, so far I've found zep pro/prem, stranger things pro, Jurassic park pro, black knight pro, maiden pro, guardians pro - maybe a few others I've forgot. Most prices aren't friendly either but still below the new msrp.
Quoted from WeirPinball:Lets take a guess at pricing - New Stern 10.5K - New JJP - 11K so my guess is low enough to create a "value" feeling, but high enough to make the most $$
so... $8999
Chicago Gaming's
CACTUS CANYON REMAKE
SPECIAL EDITION $ 8,000
$ 500 Deposit
REVEALED AND AVAILABLE TO ORDER NOW !!!
Cactus Canyon Special Edition
$ 8,000
Quoted from chuckwurt:No retroactive price increase. If they have stock of games built before GZ, old price.
This requires some clarification - IF it is in stock now, it should be the lower price -
ANY title built after the new year new price.
Quoted from chuckwurt:That’s what it is. But you also have to remember that distros are only held to MAP. They can charge 100k per game if they want. Trent’s prices always go up when he knows he can’t get more of a certain game.
They go up the less he has in stock
FU Stern and your.....QR scanner - not everybody is into connecting a machine to the internet and making an account - already have people asking how to turn it off on GZ...
Quoted from MikeS:Can we please change the thread title to "F you WeirPinball and your price increases" since he raised the price $600 over Sterns price.
As requested - title changed. As someone said - can't beat them, join them.
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:But make sure you bitch and whine like a mule before you do.
Yea, after looking for a JP premium huo for my own use and not finding one under 12k I had to say enough is enough. Why let everyone else drive up the price when I can do it single handedly. Lets say for example you buy a pro from a distributor. They charge retail +100 + a shipment cost even though I'm picking up the game and not getting it drop shipped. Then you add on 7% OH taxes and you are now up to $7600. So I guess selling them for $7500 is ripping people off. That is not a made up number - true prices. I have people asking me to find all these nib games and alot are premiums and it is hard enough finding any pros in stock anywhere. So am I part of the problem? Yes
I've also called numerous distros just to hear "someone came in earlier this week and bought every NIB I had" or "we are going to the preorder only model". Demand is so high right now - never seen anything like it.
Quoted from Insanity199:I’ll sell you my JP Premium for $11,999.
In all seriousness, I am probably selling it but no idea what to list it for yet. I have seen other JP Premiums for less than 12k. Not NIB but great condition.
The difference for me is I can wait for a NIB if I have to, so for me to buy a HUO it has to be less than what a NIB would cost. With the shortage, I don't blame anyone for asking what they are. Hell, if I had a collection of LEs (and I know people that do) I'd be listing them all for sale right now. I'm finally to the point where I have admitted to myself that if I sell something from my collection (which is tiny at this point) I won't be getting another. Funny, but pins are one of the few things beating inflation this year.
Quoted from robotron911:Why on Earth doesn't Stern (or anyone) just drop ship pinballs?
They do - but you still have to go through a distro to get it drop shipped.
Quoted from clearstar:They are price gouging plain and simple...and they charge shipping $450, so that Mando is going to cost you $9750! Just like others: pinballpro.net, greatamericanpinball.com, I could go on. That's crazy, when a place like Flip-in-Out or Cointaker can correctly sell the same machine for $8999 with free shipping! I wish Stern would stand between distributors and thier customers, and force them to align on MSRP and agreed upon margins. Any machine in current production needs to be MSRP. Distros don't get to jump on the scalping game, since they are the only retail outlet for Stern MSRP. Honestly, I'd rather pay Weir than a distro scalping. *shrug*
You are skipping one vital component of pricing - you only get $8999 + free shipping if you preorder and it drop ships from stern. If you wait until they get it in hand - you have to pay additional shipping. That part isn't gouging it's just what it costs to ship from their warehouse.
Quoted from jgentry:Not true, I've always gotten good pricing from FlipNout and a lot of time the games are delivered and Zach even helps me set them up. Just buy from the closest distributer across state lines and go get it if they won't deliver it.
Understand - I'm talking about out of state purchases, have to understand it would cost to have them ship it from their location.
Quoted from ZMeny:We still offer Free Shipping on all new sterns, regardless if it’s coming from Stern or it’s at our shop. And yes, it costs us double shipping from stern to us and then from us to customer, but we do it anyway.
You Sir - are one of the best - setting the example above most others.
Quoted from KingVidiot:This has been thoroughly entertaining. I’m betting if you combed through all the lovely pinsiders who upvoted this thread, you’ll find most of them suffering from self-induced pinflation too. You can’t make this shit up, folks.[quoted image]
Love it! Great image!
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Middletown, OH
