Prescott, WI
Quoted from woody76:I bought 2 sea-doos at the beginning of the summer for $11k and we have had more fun with those things than I ever have with a single machine.
What would you guess those sea-doos will be worth in 10 years?
(Topic ID: 300400)
Quoted from JohnTTwo:What would you guess those sea-doos will be worth in 10 years?
About tree fiddy...
7k for a pro that is marketed to location operator’s??? Locations that are already struggling?? Really?? Sorry but this price increase is ridiculous and especially in a time when people and businesses are still struggling and facing more shutdowns. I wasn’t happy with jjp raising prices mid production either, but sterns are now just a hair under jjp prices per model and there is no way they’re in the same BOM neighborhood. This trend will only continue until people stop overpaying for second hand games, or stop buying the fomo on nib. Sorry, but when I look at Godzilla pro, and see all the plastic in place of molds, bridges, mechs etc, for $7k, I feel like it’s gone overboard. The premium looks cool, but the prices will keep it out of my house and probably out of some of my local locations too unfortunately.
Quoted from WeirPinball:All these inflated prices have me thinking about building a Stern Cheetah or Star Gazer to flip. Already done it with a Bally Viking for someone else....
Should talk to Jerry at Pincinnati. He’s been doing this for like 2 years.
Quoted from TaylorVA:I think you missed my point, but using your situation I’ll ask you if feel you got a fair value for owning such an expensive game. Assuming you bought your game for 9k and sold it for roughly $8200, did you get $800 worth of enjoyment out of it?
Your statement isn’t accurate. I didn’t sell it for $8200. I got another pin of somewhat equal value. A pin isn’t cash equivalent. Your conclusion assumes I will sell AiQ for $8200 and that has yet to be determined. I think your missing my point which is it’s not a sure thing to sell it for what you paid for it which is what you alluded to. I didn’t sell it. I traded it.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I've got four awesome guitars and never spent more than $3.5k on one.
Actually, I have four guitars as well and the most I’ve spent is $2200. That was for a Taylor acoustic.
Quoted from Krupps4:my point which is it’s not a sure thing to sell it for what you paid for it which is what you alluded to. I didn’t sell it. I traded it.
Right so how is your transaction relevant to the point you’re trying to make? Maybe cite the last time you sold a game?
Quoted from chuckwurt:Right so how is your transaction relevant to the point you’re trying to make? Maybe cite the last time you sold a game?
I think it’s very relevant. It’s a current example of how it’s not so easy to just “sell the pin for what you paid for it”.
CrazyLevi your guitar pics made me happy. I taught guitar and flipped burgers when I was 16, and I used my first-ever tax return to buy a Gibson copy by a Japanese company called Shiro. This would have been ~1980. If my house was burning down, that guitar is the first thing I’d grab.
Funny too, I remember my audiophile coworkers in 1984 talking shit about “Jap Crap”. Guess what sells for $$$ on eBay now?
Quoted from Krupps4:Your statement isn’t accurate. I didn’t sell it for $8200. I got another pin of somewhat equal value. A pin isn’t cash equivalent. Your conclusion assumes I will sell AiQ for $8200 and that has yet to be determined. I think your missing my point which is it’s not a sure thing to sell it for what you paid for it which is what you alluded to. I didn’t sell it. I traded it.
I was assuming you could get 7400 for AIQ, you said you cash as well, but point taken. Sometimes a game will depriciate.
Happy to pay what ever Stern charges, I say if you can't afford it find a new hobby. Maybe collect beanie babies or Barbie dolls, you could start a collection of board games or you can get another job and stop crying because you are not successful enough to afford nice stuff. Either way less crying about pricing would be great because nobody cares if you have a game or not 
Quoted from Krupps4:I think it’s very relevant. It’s a current example of how it’s not so easy to just “sell the pin for what you paid for it”.
But you can trade a game really easily! 
Quoted from Krupps4:I think it’s very relevant. It’s a current example of how it’s not so easy to just “sell the pin for what you paid for it”.
Your glossing over the comment I was originally referring to which was: “ To me it is a value thing as I could never ever get $10k worth of enjoyment out of ANY pinball machine.”
My point is that the enjoyment value isn’t really based on what you paid, unless you play it into the ground or something, because games are holding their value in the secondary market. There are very few hobbies like that.
Quoted from chuckwurt:But you can trade a game really easily!
Woah! Quit making sense. Clearly stern is machine blocking someone.
Quoted from Mark1971:Happy to pay what ever Stern charges, I say if you can't afford it find a new hobby. Maybe collect beanie babies or Barbie dolls, you could start a collection of board games or you can get another job and stop crying because you are not successful enough to afford nice stuff. Either way less crying about pricing would be great because nobody cares if you have a game or not
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I wouldn't try to say anyone can't afford the games. Some can, some can't. Some like me are deciding to pass on nib pins for now. Thank for the tip on Barbies, have any you could recommend to someone new to that market? 
Quoted from PinFever:People pay 10 for tron pros. let godzilla Premiums/le go for 10k too then why not
Tron is best! Why pay for new turd. When you can have the miracle.
As prices keep going up, operators are going to be asking themselves “How do I make any money on this again ?” Some crappy redemption games for sure can go in the $10K range, but I’ll let Dave and Busters play in that realm. Most arcade games for anything retro are well below $5K, usually below $1K. Same for used redemption games (if not turned into firewood). And the demand is higher for arcade than pins for your generic arcade going customer. A lot of arcades you will see maybe 2 pins. As these prices go up it may well turn into no pins. I mean this is all fine and good, Stern is clearly leaning more into the heavy monied home market, and that’s their call. But I still gotta ask, how long does that last for ? If you can’t cater to garnering a new era of pin playing kids due to lack of public availability of these newer machines you are long term shooting yourself in the foot. The nostalgia in 10 years will end up being for *cough* Cyclone and not the good kinda Cyclone. It’s all good short term, but a terrible long term approach.
F49ABE1D-815A-4EC0-A56F-0B5382582232 (resized).pngQuoted from Mark1971:Happy to pay what ever Stern charges, I say if you can't afford it find a new hobby. Maybe collect beanie babies or Barbie dolls, you could start a collection of board games or you can get another job and stop crying because you are not successful enough to afford nice stuff. Either way less crying about pricing would be great because nobody cares if you have a game or not
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Congrats. You win for most pretentious post. Many here could write a check for 100 NIB Sterns, but you won't see them all bend over with a grin for "whatever Stern charges". I, for one, have nice stuff because I'm not a total idiot with my money. If the price-to-value is slanted too far in the wrong direction I ain't buying.
Quoted from turbo20lbs:$12,500 shipped to door for NIB TBL is looking cheaper and cheaper the past 6 months or so.
4 years from now.
Quoted from chickenscratch:I dunno man, I nodded then laughed at your comment, see no upvotes, checked your history and your a fine classically trained man that cuts no fat off his comments.
Awww…the nicest thing ever said about me on punside…but yeah I’m even a dik irl…but a fair dik nonetheless…just ask the guy who bought my Houdini…I came down on the price, ignored the several higher offers which came in after we agreed, and I even delivered it to his house 100 miles away for free even though he showed up to my house in a Tesla…
Quoted from JohnTTwo:What would you guess those sea-doos will be worth in 10 years?
But what's it worth to be outdoors, on the water, total freedom. Priceless!
They need either a tier below pro or they need to find a way to bring the pro price down. I really don’t know what else they could strip from the game but these prices are going to hurt location play.
Without location play pinball dies… i don’t care what you say, it may take a few decades but it will die.
Quoted from Mark1971:or you can get another job and stop crying because you are not successful enough to afford nice stuff. Either way less crying about pricing would be great because nobody cares if you have a game or not
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:Congrats. You win for most pretentious post. Many here could write a check for 100 NIB Sterns, but you won't see them all bend over with a grin for "whatever Stern charges". I, for one, have nice stuff because I'm not a total idiot with my money. If the price-to-value is slanted too far in the wrong direction I ain't buying.
Seriously. Imagine assuming every person that isn't willing the pay the new price should "get another job and stop crying because you are not successful enough to afford nice stuff." Only the dumbest in our country believe this shit. Dude, people that actually have money, don't always flaunt it like you think they do. Those are the idiots that lose it all.
Quoted from V8haha:They need either a tier below pro or they need to find a way to bring the pro price down. I really don’t know what else they could strip from the game but these prices are going to hurt location play.
There is a tier below the Pro. “The Pin” …but that’s also for home sales.
Quoted from V8haha:Without location play pinball dies… i don’t care what you say, it may take a few decades but it will die.
Currently, the opposite is true. Without home sales, pinball would absolutely be dead. Way more games going to homes than location. The LE FOMO model is literally what has kept Stern in business.
Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:Awww…the nicest thing ever said about me on punside…but yeah I’m even a dik irl…but a fair dik nonetheless…just ask the guy who bought my Houdini…I came down on the price, ignored the several higher offers which came in after we agreed, and I even delivered it to his house 100 miles away for free even though he showed up to my house in a Tesla…
Oh god... we need a better slap-the-ground-LMAO emoticon
Let me known when you do standup, I'll cheer you on while you abuse me as an audience member
Quoted from chickenscratch:Oh god... we need a better slap-the-ground-LMAO emoticon
Let me known when you do standup, I'll cheer you on while you abuse me as an audience member
What if he gets into porn, still interested in some abuse! He did say he was a dick!
Quoted from Roostking:What if he gets into porn, still interested in some abuse! He did say he was a dick!
Depends how many pins I get paid per shoot 
Quoted from starfighter:I can understand home buyers walking away from NIB pricing and I can also understand other home buyers grabbing up NIB dream themes regardless of pricing.
Where I'm confused is the operator arena. I'm not sure operators will jump on board with Pros that cost quite a bit more and have a longer RIO. That seems like a very steep hill to climb in the future.
Keep in mind that this hill has been climbed before. Anyone that has routed Stern LE's or Premium's, or JJP LE's has faced this same question already. What should the price per play be on a pin costing between $7000-$10,000? It isn't hard to figure that part out. Question is, will the location player support a higher cost per play?
Back in the late 1970s, inflation was double digit and price per play in this area went from 3 plays/three balls for 25 cents to 2 plays/5 balls for 25 cents, ending up at one play/three balls for 25 cents. Seemed like it didn't take very long for this price per play increase to occur, but I am sure it took several years.
In the past, many pinball operators were reluctant to raise price per game for fear of alienating their customer base. Certainly a valid concern. These higher prices on the Stern Pro may be just the impetus for operators to raise price per play again. It sure has me thinking about it.
Quoted from Krupps4:For me, I don’t think my level of enjoyment of a Stern Pro is worth $7000. I’d rather get a top of the line electric guitar for $5000, but I play guitar everyday.
Thats always been a problem for me. I like Rickenbacker basses and SG's starting collecting Synths recently and every time I buy a pin I have a moment where I think well there's a classic Moog or a custom 3 pick up SG or a new bass or recording equipment, basically the best problems u can have. 
Quoted from PanzerFreak:lah blah blah. I just bought a NIB TMNT literally 3 months ago so stop with your crap that I can't stand Stern.
Never said u can't stand Stern. I said u can't stand that they dominate the industry. Its crystal clear from reading ur posts but nice try. I don't hate JJP, I do think their theme choices suck and so far I haven't been impressed with the gameplay, with the exception of DI which I would have bought if it didn't look like they made it for pre teen girls.
Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:Says someone that bought a guns and roses ce!? you got ripped off horribly if you bought new and ESPECIALLY used. Talk about a low BOM compared to sticker price. Easily the worst offender game there is.
This point 1000 times. GNR has almost zero mechs in the game, with just a bunch of cheap LEDs and is easily the biggest “rip off” in all of pinball. Next JJP CE is $13,500.00. A cool $3,000.00 more than a Stern LE, which is the same tier for both companies, just naming is different. You’re right the worst offender game in all of pinball, GNR. Prices are taking a dive on that one too, with all the troubles it has. Godzilla is loaded by comparison and even with the price hike $10,5k is way cheaper than the next JJP CE at $13,5k.
But Stern prices are way too high as well and need to come back to reality. When the market cools down again and it will, just as stocks go up and down. We are in that cycle and Stern of all companies knows how supply and demand works. Unfortunately for most of us, the price increase is just way too much at $1,000.00.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I've got four awesome guitars and never spent more than $3.5k on one.
I am pretty sure you have over $3.5k with of paint on your baseboards! LOL
Quoted from TaylorVA:You don’t need to get 10k of enjoyment out of it, you just need to enjoy it and then sell it for what you paid for it. Can’t think of many hobbies that work like that.
true, but in the last couple years it has become a pain in the ass to sell a game. years ago I could list a game for decent price, sells by end of day, payment worked out and shipping arranged in the same day. Try to sell a game now, damn nightmare on here with all these crap accounts trying to scam us. I have 20 BS messages right now from scammers.
Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:we need to stop calling Steve the king, he was usurped long ago
I would respectfully disagree.
Almost Certainly, He might have something up his sleeve still. I will lay some $$$ on this. (J j p has hired him already spending their own money on him.)
I bet his next couple machines will have some new magic to show us.
Ritchie can be always be the king, to me. (Always)
There is always room at the top. Competition breeds excellence.
D49EA14E-4679-4994-B0C8-1AD7B315AAA8 (resized).jpeg
This is my boom stick. Theme desire insertion.
Quoted from pookycade:As prices keep going up, operators are going to be asking themselves “How do I make any money on this again ?” Some crappy redemption games for sure can go in the $10K range, but I’ll let Dave and Busters play in that realm. Most arcade games for anything retro are well below $5K, usually below $1K. Same for used redemption games (if not turned into firewood). And the demand is higher for arcade than pins for your generic arcade going customer. A lot of arcades you will see maybe 2 pins. As these prices go up it may well turn into no pins. I mean this is all fine and good, Stern is clearly leaning more into the heavy monied home market, and that’s their call. But I still gotta ask, how long does that last for ? If you can’t cater to garnering a new era of pin playing kids due to lack of public availability of these newer machines you are long term shooting yourself in the foot. The nostalgia in 10 years will end up being for *cough* Cyclone and not the good kinda Cyclone. It’s all good short term, but a terrible long term approach.
[quoted image]
Just to note: Stern sees itself as a manufacturer. Gary Stern says that all of the time. Right now, they are manufacturing pins and doing a helluva good job. As a business, they have to take advantage of the current market, and they are. Who is to say that they realize that pins are, in fact, a short term proposition? Williams pivoted, why not Stern?
No one is happy about these prices. But Stern's sales are sizling and they have a backlog of orders. Demand is greater than availability... prices go up... and current conditions have found people holding a lot of cash.
Stern would be complete idiots to ignore the fire and under charge right now. As much as I wish Godzilla Premium could be found for $6100 with a shaker and mirror blades thrown in, the market has spoken. People are willing to pay $9K. Frankly, I won't be shocked if we see premium prices approach $9.6K or higher this time next year.
Quoted from Glarrownage:Seriously. Imagine assuming every person that isn't willing the pay the new price should "get another job and stop crying because you are not successful enough to afford nice stuff." Only the dumbest in our country believe this shit. Dude, people that actually have money, don't always flaunt it like you think they do. Those are the idiots the lose it all.
I love these forums!!!! everyone is sooo easy to trigger lol
Quoted from JohnTTwo:What would you guess those sea-doos will be worth in 10 years?
Hard to say in 10 years but I can tell you they are probably worth more now than what he paid for them. I can also tell you the junker 95 jetski I bought for less than 1k is now worth probably 3k and the less junker but still old and beat up 97 wave runner I bought in June 2020 for $2400 is probably worth $4500 today. Pinball isn't the only market that has seen insane rises in both new and used equipment.
you are wrong. big time wrong/
I do not see any GNRce taking dives . If i listed mine for 13k i would sell it in a New York Minute and lose nothing and make 250 Dollars and would have enjoyed the Game the whole time and is no doubt the best looking and playing game i have ever owned and i have been through allot.
The gAme Shines and is worth every penny with Drumsticks and integration i have not seen since STTNG..
You are Fugged thinking i got ripped .
I also laugh at the Pro And Sterns THE Pin comment because all the Pro /Premium and LE is now is a THE Pin with a DMD and a coin door . For Fkn real. been saying that since they went to SPIKE. So yes the BOM for a pro/prem/le/THE PIN is all relatively so very close but the gaps in Price are Fkn Wacked out . it takes almost the Same time to assemble any of them on the line...
A jjp Game Ce /or LE to a Stern is night and day /apples to oranges ..
I stand by my OPINION> And pretty factual for that matter
e
Quoted from jimwe5t:This point 1000 times. GNR has almost zero mechs in the game, with just a bunch of cheap LEDs and is easily the biggest “rip off” in all of pinball. Next JJP CE is $13,500.00. A cool $3,000.00 more than a Stern LE, which is the same tier for both companies, just naming is different. You’re right the worst offender game in all of pinball, GNR. Prices are taking a dive on that one too, with all the troubles it has. Godzilla is loaded by comparison and even with the price hike $10,5k is way cheaper than the next JJP CE at $13,5k.
But Stern prices are way too high as well and need to come back to reality. When the market cools down again and it will, just as stocks go up and down. We are in that cycle and Stern of all companies knows how supply and demand works. Unfortunately for most of us, the price increase is just way too much at $1,000.00.
I had an interesting discussion last night with our local operator. I asked him at what price he gets shut out on a new Pro. He told me that although it takes a long time to recoup the investment, the pinball machine is typically complementary to the other things that are earning well. He said although they do consider potential resale value, it typically not the driving force behind the purchase decision.
He also told me that a ton of his locations are requesting pinball machines. He said they don't have near enough inventory to satisfy the requests from his locations.
Quoted from Mark1971:I love these forums!!!! everyone is sooo easy to trigger lol
I know right ??? Some people make it SO easy for me to determine who to put on my ignore list (pompous checkwriters)!!!!
Location near me called Tilt Pinball has prices at $1.50 per play and the machines play like shit. I refuse to go there now.
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:Congrats. You win for most pretentious post. Many here could write a check for 100 NIB Sterns, but you won't see them all bend over with a grin for "whatever Stern charges". I, for one, have nice stuff because I'm not a total idiot with my money. If the price-to-value is slanted too far in the wrong direction I ain't buying.
OMG I am crying, you guys are too easy to troll!!! I was going for completely obnoxious not just pretentious. I was also kidding around these forums are a hoot I love reading them, you all are great and I love your posts. snicker snicker
Quoted from Mark1971:Happy to pay what ever Stern charges, I say if you can't afford it find a new hobby. Maybe collect beanie babies or Barbie dolls, you could start a collection of board games or you can get another job and stop crying because you are not successful enough to afford nice stuff. Either way less crying about pricing would be great because nobody cares if you have a game or not
LMAO
Quoted from Hayfarmer:But what's it worth to be outdoors, on the water, total freedom. Priceless!
I’ll be on the water this weekend total money pit no way to recoup the expenses. Fun and worth it though! Comparing pin cost to boat outdoors is complete opposite of each other.
Quoted from Mark1971:OMG I am crying, you guys are too easy to troll!!! I was going for completely obnoxious not just pretentious. I was also kidding around these forums are a hoot I love reading them, you all are great and I love your posts. snicker snicker
LOL, trying to walk back your idiotic comment 
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