(Topic ID: 300400)

F You Stern and your price increases

By WeirPinball

39 days ago


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    There are 1216 posts in this topic. You are on page 8 of 25.
    #351 38 days ago
    Quoted from Viggin900:

    You started this thread by saying "F you stern and your price increase"?

    People change Jason!

    #352 38 days ago
    Quoted from NeilMcRae:high prices?
    a pro in the UK is $8,183 thats before_ sales tax of 20%
    Godzilla likely my last LE as now LE's more than £10K which is my self imposed limit....
    Neil.

    Lmao sell one or your 25 premiums to fund your next LE. Give me a freaking break

    #353 38 days ago
    Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

    At the end of the day - work harder and make more money - or find a better paying job.
    We are in an employee's market - ask your boss for a raise or go out and find a higher paying job.
    You may be surprised at what your boss is willing to pay to keep you or what you are worth to another company.

    Good point made here!

    #354 38 days ago
    Quoted from Vino:

    Shock denial anger acceptance

    You forgot the best stage of grief when it comes to buying stuff: BARGAINING!

    #355 38 days ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    Meanwhile pool chlorine is clocking in at 50-100% more than last year.

    Tell me about it. And go read the pool forums where people complain just as they do on Pinside. "People are hoarding!" "The pool companies are gouging us!" "They know we NEED this stuff!" I mostly use liquid chlorine, although it went up in price significantly as well.

    Quoted from Lermods:

    switch to salt, $6 a bag, need maybe three bags a season at most.

    Some of us have stainless steel paneled pools and can't use salt generators. Never mind SWG's have other cons.

    #356 38 days ago
    Quoted from nicoy3k:

    Lmao sell one or your 25 premiums to fund your next LE. Give me a freaking break

    you don't get it dood - it's not the cost; it's the value.

    and I don't have 25 premiums! Only 5, 4 of them are in Flip Out London Pinball Club our pinball co-op.

    #357 38 days ago
    Quoted from NeilMcRae:

    you don't get it dood - it's not the cost; it's the value.

    We do get it, dude. It's called inflation. And when the cost of all other fun things rise just like pinball is rising, you'll be back to buying games with your similarly increased salary.

    Quoted from CoreyStup:

    I mostly use liquid chlorine, although it went up in price significantly as well.

    Same here, liquid shock pretty much exclusively. While it's gone up from ~13 to ~23 a jug, it's still pretty cheap compared to tabs and does a great job. Switching to SWG requires changing equipment, so won't look at that til it's time for a refresh.

    #358 38 days ago
    Quoted from NeilMcRae:

    it's not the cost; it's the value

    I agree with this statement. A lot of people seem to think that just because someone has the money to pay whatever prices are set for NIBs that the new prices shouldn’t matter. I’d like to think that even the wealthiest people don’t want to overpay for things. So, the issue isn’t a straight cost issue. It’s a cost relative to value issue.

    #359 38 days ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    We do get it, dude. It's called inflation. And when the cost of all other fun things rise just like pinball is rising, you'll be back to buying games with your similarly increased salary.

    similarly increased salary? bwahahahhahahaha. Well...I admit, I do not know how employees compensate in his neck of the woods.

    Around here, companies pride themselves on not giving raises year after year while claiming record profits year after year.

    #360 38 days ago
    Quoted from BallyKISS1978:

    Masterpiece territory? Seriously?! EHOH I’m that territory, but LZ? Come on. How is it a masterpiece? I am a huge LZ fan but no way in hell does it even come close to sniffing masterpiece territory.

    Well that’s beauty of pinball, what one likes is very subjective and personal. Unfortunately I haven’t played EHOH so I can’t really get a feel of what you consider a masterpiece. If you go by the pinside number 1 list then MM is clearly a masterpiece but to me it’s an ok game at best. Ad I stated I haven’t had enough time on LZ yet but I am addicted to the flow on this machine. I also love the band and the music so I am sure that boosts it in my eyes. The rules are good and allow you to attack the game in various ways and the multiballs are amazing. All I know is when I have a game on that machine where everything clicks and flows I have goosebumps and am grinning from ear to ear. So that feeling to me is what makes me think what I said.

    #361 38 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    Gotta say, this thread is the most fun I've had on pinside in a while. Truth be told the market is what it is - can't blame anyone for taking what they can get these days including Stern.

    Yeah it’s really hard to get attention with a price bitching thread. Somehow you cracked the pinside code! Amazing.

    #362 38 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:Godzilla LE and GNR LE are now about the same price. I would say Stern with Godzilla LE has matched GNR LE in terms of features on the playfield. However, will Godzilla have the same animation, lighting, more choreography, and sound quality as JJP games? No, not in my opinion.

    Jesus r u ever hung up on BOM and everything else besides the most important thing. How it plays and its fun factor. I think some pinball collectors, perhaps the ones who aren't very good players need the flash otherwise there's nothing else to justify the price, maybe? I haven't played Godzilla yet and already know it will be a better shooter than GnR, who gives a fuck about "choreography"

    #363 38 days ago
    Quoted from Krupps4:

    I agree with this statement. A lot of people seem to think that just because someone has the money to pay whatever prices are set for NIBs that the new prices shouldn’t matter. I’d like to think that even the wealthiest people don’t want to overpay for things. So, the issue isn’t a straight cost issue. It’s a cost relative to value issue.

    If the secondary market moves with msrp increases then the value stays the same. Regardless, there is no “value” argument for pinball. It’s a waste of money at any price. I hate price increases too but find it laughable that no one blinks at spooky or JJP pricing yet loses their shit when stern matches them while still offering better product.

    #364 38 days ago

    No more NIB Stern or anyone else for me! Well maybe American?
    Actually, now that I think about it, I never bought a NIB Stern!

    #365 38 days ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Years ago it was about25¢ for each 2K worth of game. So $1 is about right in comparison.
    LTG : )

    I’d still pay $2 a play buddy and I will get to your place some day

    -2
    #366 38 days ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Please. This is the most dramatic thing ever. These are toys. No one is taking advantage of anyone. They are offering a product for a price. They are doing nothing wrong. Buy or don’t buy.

    They aren’t technically doing anything wrong, but we all know they see the 2nd hand prices getting out of hand and they want a piece of that pie. We also know that the games aren’t costing them that much more to make than even a few years back. They have raised prices well above inflation rates, and that sir is taking advantage of the market. When a stern costs as much as a jjp, you know the pricing is out of whack. It’s easy for me. I just won’t buy. Many still will. It’s just sad to see such a niche business jack prices up simply because they have watched flippers sell well above cost.

    And this isn’t even calculating the prices they get us on for the cheap toppers.

    30
    #367 38 days ago
    Quoted from Mitoska:

    Yes I agree ., It is bullshit when companies raise prices for know reason and just say that's the market..so unfair...oh wait..but not when your the seller right??? You want people to pay your ridiculous prices right..get the most you can...works both ways.
    [quoted image]

    Reconsiders 2.jpg

    #368 38 days ago

    Maybe they’ve been doing all the flipping behind the curtain .

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    13
    #369 38 days ago

    There’s some funny ass impotent rage up in this thread. Right now Gary’s getting high and laughing so hard he snort-farts and tears are rolling down his cheeks.

    Also, LZ rules!!

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    #370 38 days ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    There’s some funny ass impotent rage up in this thread. Right now Gary’s getting high and laughing so hard he snort-farts and tears are rolling down his cheeks.

    I have my own theories as to why Gary Stern, who is celebrating a holiday tonight, gets an inordinate amount of abuse around here about prices while everybody else who owns a pinball company and charges as high or higher prices gets a pass.

    Pm me and I’ll be happy to share!

    #371 38 days ago

    I have a DP pre-order, Did the price increase for DP pre-orders as well?

    #372 38 days ago
    Quoted from Viggin900:

    You started this thread by saying "F you stern and your price increase"?

    Yes - I've contradicted myself many time here already - but I'm still out with this pricing.

    #373 38 days ago
    Quoted from KornFreak28:

    I have a DP pre-order, Did the price increase for DP pre-orders as well?

    Best to ask your distro.

    #374 38 days ago
    Quoted from zh2oson:

    [quoted image]

    Now that is funny

    #375 38 days ago
    Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

    At the end of the day - work harder and make more money - or find a better paying job.
    We are in an employee's market - ask your boss for a raise or go out and find a higher paying job.
    You may be surprised at what your boss is willing to pay to keep you or what you are worth to another company.

    I agree with most of your comments, but most of the people complaining have $100k + worth of pinball machines in their collections. I do not think it is a "work hard and make more money problem" for most of us. I have had large collections worth $100k and sold them off at a large profit. To me it is a value thing as I could never ever get $10k worth of enjoyment out of ANY pinball machine. I could afford an entire house full of games, but it has just gotten stupid at this point. I bought 2 sea-doos at the beginning of the summer for $11k and we have had more fun with those things than I ever have with a single machine. I really miss the days when $5k could get you a NIB or you could buy a nice B/W for about the same. I have always thought a pinball machine should never be over $5k. That is where i see value/return and we are WAY beyond those days. I am going to sell a few more off and keep a handful of older 90's games and be done.

    #376 38 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I have my own theories as to why Gary Stern, who is celebrating a holiday tonight, gets an inordinate amount of abuse around here about prices while everybody else who owns a pinball company and charges as high or higher prices gets a pass.
    Pm me and I’ll be happy to share!

    yea, it does not make sense to me either. Stern is basically charging the same price as the other manufacturers.

    #377 38 days ago
    Quoted from woody76:

    yea, it does not make sense to me either. Stern is basically charging the same price as the other manufacturers.

    Correct…except a stern pro is still the cheapest game you can buy. Stern represents the floor, not the ceiling.

    #378 38 days ago

    All these inflated prices have me thinking about building a Stern Cheetah or Star Gazer to flip. Already done it with a Bally Viking for someone else....

    #379 38 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Stern represents the floor, not the ceiling.

    This is still true. Jack and Gary just went past the low simmer this time around.

    97A6841A-D8DF-40F7-9833-05AED18FB79B.gif

    #380 38 days ago
    Quoted from CoreyStup:

    Tell me about it. And go read the pool forums where people complain just as they do on Pinside. "People are hoarding!" "The pool companies are gouging us!" "They know we NEED this stuff!" I mostly use liquid chlorine, although it went up in price significantly as well.

    Some of us have stainless steel paneled pools and can't use salt generators. Never mind SWG's have other cons.

    the amount of salt in a pool will not harm those panels, its less than one tenth of the amount you’d find in the ocean. I see no downsides to salt pools. We’ve literally added nothing but a couple of bags of salt all season and that’s only because we’ve had a ton of rain, levels stay very constant, water is crystal clear, very soft. Highly recommend it.

    #381 38 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    All these inflated prices have me thinking about building a Stern Cheetah or Star Gazer to flip. Already done it with a Bally Viking for someone else....

    Love Viking! I remember when I bought mine for $75 in 2004. Sold it in 2009 for $550 and thought the buyer was CRAZY to pay so much...and here we are...

    #382 38 days ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    Jesus r u ever hung up on BOM and everything else besides the most important thing. How it plays and its fun factor. I think some pinball collectors, perhaps the ones who aren't very good players need the flash otherwise there's nothing else to justify the price, maybe? I haven't played Godzilla yet and already know it will be a better shooter than GnR, who gives a fuck about "choreography"

    Who cares about how it plays when the games cost these ridiculous prices? Why don't you go pay $100 for a pizza just because it tastes good or $100k for a Mustang GT just because it's fun to drive?

    Fun factor isn't what people are complaining about here, it's the insane prices and I'm sorry but a lot of us here care about value for our hard earned money.

    Also, if you don't care about more choreography then damn are your expectations low for code, animation, and sound all being put together to create unique layered modes.

    #383 38 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    All these inflated prices have me thinking about building a Stern Cheetah or Star Gazer to flip. Already done it with a Bally Viking for someone else....

    If you want to make $10-20 an hour, that’s a good plan. Could be enjoyable too of course.

    #384 38 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Also, if you don't care about more choreography then damn are your expectations low for code, animation, and sound all being put together to create unique layered modes.

    Love pinball choreography, but I prefer Stern’s “Singin’ In the Rain” type numbers to JJP’s Busby Berkeley stuff:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busby_Berkeley

    #385 38 days ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    If you want to make $10-20 an hour, that’s a good plan. Could be enjoyable too of course.

    par for the course I do this because I enjoy it - never keep track of hours because I probably wouldn't do it.

    DSCN1450 (resized).JPGDSCN1451 (resized).JPG
    #386 38 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    I don't want people to pay those prices - people pay the prices. The market is insane right now. I'm selling everything not nailed down except for the two games I got from whodey. I'm just choosing not to buy any more due to pinflation. I also have been flipping GPUs since people are insane in that market as well.

    Yeah can’t sell them. They are treasures!

    #387 38 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Also, if you don't care about more choreography then damn are your expectations low for code, animation, and sound all being put together to create unique layered modes.

    I don't feel Stern is lacking in code, animation , sound, u know the "Choreography" department. I know when I'm looking at new or older pins to buy what I always ask myself "What about the choreography"

    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Fun factor isn't what people are complaining about here, it's the insane prices and I'm sorry but a lot of us here care about value for our hard earned money.

    Yeah but ur the one who will always bring up its too expensive because of "Value" the material aspect of it. The fun is my first way of gauging value when it comes to a game.

    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Why don't you go pay $100 for a pizza just because it tastes good or $100k for a Mustang GT just because it's fun to drive?

    If that pizza tastes good enough to me to spend $100 on then I will but u would need it to see that it has $100 worth of toppings where I don't give shit how they got it to taste that good, I just enjoy it. If a Mustang GT cost that much and I wanted one then fine. I mean it doesn't cost that much so its really a foolish argument like I would go into a Ford dealership and insist that I want to pay double. How is it that ur so aware of what it costs to manufacturer these games, make as much profit as is possible and continue to grow as a company. Just admit that u can't stand that Stern dominates this hobby while ur precious JJP with all its flash and over done crap sits at a very distant second. Oh yeah.

    #388 38 days ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    the amount of salt in a pool will not harm those panels, its less than one tenth of the amount you’d find in the ocean. I see no downsides to salt pools. We’ve literally added nothing but a couple of bags of salt all season and that’s only because we’ve had a ton of rain, levels stay very constant, water is crystal clear, very soft. Highly recommend it.

    I contacted the manufacturer and they did not recommend using a SWG with these panels and coping.

    My issue with SWG is the cost of the generator every 3-5 years and that its only making chlorine while the pump is running. I don't mind liquid and switching to tabs for when Im away. And I like being able to introduce a bunch of chlorine all at once.

    If I had a gunnite or fiberglass pool I may feel differently about the pros of a SWG.

    #389 38 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    millions dead from a virus
    horrible floods and hurricanes killing people and causing untold damage
    earthquakes in Haiti
    fires out of control
    pinball prices up a bit causing slight distress for people who have way too much money

    Earthquakes in Haiti immediately after a presidential assassination no less. It's actually nice to see someone include Haiti on a short list of world issues people should care about. Just wanted to say thanks for that Levi, it's nice to see people spread awareness.

    #390 38 days ago
    Quoted from woody76:

    I agree with most of your comments, but most of the people complaining have $100k + worth of pinball machines in their collections. I do not think it is a "work hard and make more money problem" for most of us. I have had large collections worth $100k and sold them off at a large profit. To me it is a value thing as I could never ever get $10k worth of enjoyment out of ANY pinball machine. I could afford an entire house full of games, but it has just gotten stupid at this point. I bought 2 sea-doos at the beginning of the summer for $11k and we have had more fun with those things than I ever have with a single machine. I really miss the days when $5k could get you a NIB or you could buy a nice B/W for about the same. I have always thought a pinball machine should never be over $5k. That is where i see value/return and we are WAY beyond those days. I am going to sell a few more off and keep a handful of older 90's games and be done.

    You don’t need to get 10k of enjoyment out of it, you just need to enjoy it and then sell it for what you paid for it. Can’t think of many hobbies that work like that.

    #391 38 days ago
    Quoted from TaylorVA:

    You don’t need to get 10k of enjoyment out of it, you just need to enjoy it and then sell it for what you paid for it. Can’t think of many hobbies that work like that.

    We have it so damn good in this hobby, we really do.

    But it’s bitch bitch bitch!!

    #392 38 days ago
    Quoted from nicoy3k:

    It’s a waste of money at any price

    That statement doesn’t make any sense. People get enjoyment out of pinball so it’s not a waste a money. What the question should be is does your level of enjoyment justify the cost?

    For me, I don’t think my level of enjoyment of a Stern Pro is worth $7000. I’d rather get a top of the line electric guitar for $5000, but I play guitar everyday. Do you know what kind of guitar you can get for $12,000??? However, to each his own. I know there are plenty of people out there that think a $7000 Stern Pro is worth it to them and that their level of enjoyment justifies the cost. You know what? That’s totally fine.

    #393 38 days ago
    Quoted from TaylorVA:

    then sell it for what you paid for it

    I think that is sometimes easier said then done. I live in Minneapolis which is a good market for pinball. I couple of months ago I listed my EHoH Premium for $9000 - no topper - low plays, some nice mods, shaker. I’m flexible on price and EHoH is/was a pretty hot pin. The offers I got were $7000 and one for even less. The only real offer I got is the one I took. I got an AiQ Preimum plus $875. I did fine in the end but I didn’t just get my money back either as you suggested is so easy to do.

    #394 38 days ago
    Quoted from Krupps4:

    I think that is sometimes easier said then done. I live in Minneapolis which is a good market for pinball. I couple of months ago I listed my EHoH Premium for $9000 - no topper - low plays, some nice mods, shaker. I’m flexible on price and EHoH is/was a pretty hot pin. The offers I got were $7000 and one for even less. The only real offer I got is the one I took. I got an AiQ Preimum plus $875. I did fine in the end but I didn’t just get my money back either as you suggested is so easy to do.

    I think you missed my point, but using your situation I’ll ask you if feel you got a fair value for owning such an expensive game. Assuming you bought your game for 9k and sold it for roughly $8200, did you get $800 worth of enjoyment out of it?

    #395 38 days ago
    Quoted from Krupps4:

    That statement doesn’t make any sense. People get enjoyment out of pinball so it’s not a waste a money. What the question should be is does your level of enjoyment justify the cost?
    For me, I don’t think my level of enjoyment of a Stern Pro is worth $7000. I’d rather get a top of the line electric guitar for $5000, but I play guitar everyday. Do you know what kind of guitar you can get for $12,000??? However, to each his own. I know there are plenty of people out there that think a $7000 Stern Pro is worth it to them and that their level of enjoyment justifies the cost. You know what? That’s totally fine.

    I've got four awesome guitars and never spent more than $3.5k on one. For many here, I'm sure the idea of spending that kind of money on a block of wood and some strings is nuts.

    It's all relative baby!

    648B1B7D-F81F-4486-8BFC-4ADAD7754F21 (resized).jpegCE50D510-1AED-4B9B-8BB9-16A201583237 (resized).jpeg
    #396 38 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    Looks like I'm going to write off buying sterns - with the new price hike - I just cancelled my deadpool order - It's to a point where they crossed the line. Bummer because they have some titles I still wanted to get. Someone has to start saying no - Looks like I'll be one of them.

    I quit them awhile ago. No value for the price. I’ll buy elsewhere. CGC, PB, even AP before the JJP/ Stern race to the ceiling.

    #397 38 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I've got four awesome guitars and never spent more than $3.5k on one. For many here, I'm sure the idea of spending that kind of money on a block of wood and some strings is nuts.
    It's all relative baby![quoted image][quoted image]

    Gimme that Dio couch, man!

    #398 38 days ago
    Quoted from CoreyStup:

    I contacted the manufacturer and they did not recommend using a SWG with these panels and coping.
    My issue with SWG is the cost of the generator every 3-5 years and that its only making chlorine while the pump is running. I don't mind liquid and switching to tabs for when Im away. And I like being able to introduce a bunch of chlorine all at once.
    If I had a gunnite or fiberglass pool I may feel differently about the pros of a SWG.

    You can make the SWG last longer by replacing it with a "dummy" cell in the off season. I converted my pool over to salt water a few months after it was completed. What a difference it made. Better on the skin and bathing suits, smoother water, and so much easier to maintain (less finicky with chemicals). The only small downside is instead of adding chlorine, I need to add some Meriuotic Acid each week to lower the PH levels. No big deal.

    #400 38 days ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    I don't feel Stern is lacking in code, animation , sound, u know the "Choreography" department. I know when I'm looking at new or older pins to buy what I always ask myself "What about the choreography"

    Yeah but ur the one who will always bring up its too expensive because of "Value" the material aspect of it. The fun is my first way of gauging value when it comes to a game.

    If that pizza tastes good enough to me to spend $100 on then I will but u would need it to see that it has $100 worth of toppings where I don't give shit how they got it to taste that good, I just enjoy it. If a Mustang GT cost that much and I wanted one then fine. I mean it doesn't cost that much so its really a foolish argument like I would go into a Ford dealership and insist that I want to pay double. How is it that ur so aware of what it costs to manufacturer these games, make as much profit as is possible and continue to grow as a company. Just admit that u can't stand that Stern dominates this hobby while ur precious JJP with all its flash and over done crap sits at a very distant second. Oh yeah.

    Blah blah blah. I just bought a NIB TMNT literally 3 months ago so stop with your crap that I can't stand Stern. I've repeatedly said that all modern Sterns are fun and that the issue being debated here isn't fun but rather value for some. I enjoy both Stern and JJP games in my collection but it is you who has a clear hate against one company.

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