(Topic ID: 300400)

F You Stern and your price increases

By WeirPinball

2 days ago



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  • 686 posts - Hot topic!
  • 197 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 minutes ago by JohnTTwo
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    There are 686 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 14.
    #251 2 days ago
    Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

    My first NIB was TSPP for $3800. I got serious regrets on trading that away. Ugh.

    Same here. I remember at the time thinking $3799 was outrageous for a NIB pin.

    I sold it a couple of years ago and I kick myself daily.

    #252 2 days ago
    Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:

    FACT majority of pin buyers are not OPS they are home owners. Ops I know are going after cheaper games now, they really do earn about the same from my personal experience. Why pay double for a new stern as an op to fill a slot when a classic wpc can get you the same coin drop?

    We literally had an OP post a few hours ago that he needs the latest and greatest every time. WPC is not much cheaper nowadays. I suppose it depends on the title but generally the more popular, the more expensive. Are you an OP because you say older games earn about the same from your own personal experience.

    -8
    #253 2 days ago

    Maybe if big companies paid a livable wage for manufacturing and other jobs there wouldn't BE a labor shortage.

    #254 2 days ago
    Quoted from Betelgeuse:

    This is along the lines of what I was thinking. There are lot of high end buyers that just want the most expensive model no matter what. That's why the LE's sell out so quickly and also why $1000+ toppers fly off the shelf. These buyers don't care what they are getting for their money, so much as they want to be able to brag about having the 'best' model. Charge $15k+ for the LE's and leave the Pro/Premium pricing where it's at. The LE's will still sell, imho.

    Or afraid of dying with money in the bank doing them no good.

    #255 2 days ago

    So much hate for LZ in this thread. I just got my Premium and it kicks ass! Haters are missing out on a great game.

    #256 2 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Operators are playing the same game we are these days.
    The games are not a "sunk cost." They know what they are worth, and they know that if they route a game for 4 years and then decide to sell it, they'll get pretty close to what they originally paid for it. So I don't see this as an issue.

    It’s not a game for an operator, it’s a way of making a living. Nobody said anything about “sunk cost.”

    Take that mentality to an investor or a bank for a business loan and see how far that gets you, you’ll be laughed at right out of the office. Until you’ve been more than a hobby operator (maybe you are) you have no clue. You think a used original monster bash is going to sell for $20k, again no clue. It shouldn’t take 4 years to realize a profit just to fork out more money for a similar product.

    You don’t “see an issue” because hind sight is in favor of your theory. You forget to factor in things like rioters breaking windows at a location messing with your pins. Don’t forget a pandemic that comes around and shuts down business. City officials that pick and choose what business can open and what has to close its doors. Let’s not forget about people living in fear so much that they isolate themselves and have zero interest in buying things like a routed pinball machine, especially when they can buy a new one for a little more and have it dropped off at their door step. All of this while an operator still has to pay business loans, pay for insurance, and find another source of income to support family.

    Quoted from Lermods:

    Its one thing if the game isn't earning, but if it earns, how is the math different when NIB prices were lower? The initial outlay of course is larger, but if residual value is the same, does the math really change? You route the game for 2 years, take in $x, which hopefully is unchanged (or maybe higher) from previous titles. You then decide to sell the game. All that should matter is whether that residual value has changed for the worse. Seems as though residual value has been rising so you could potentially route a game for 2 years, earn from it and then sell it at the price you paid for NIB or close to it.

    Not all titles earn the same, some are flops and the ROI would take even longer to gain. The math is different because the coin drop stays the same, the economy and way of life is different. There are no guarantees that a business can maintain desired operating hours and days (forced shutdowns) rising cost of parts, and delays in getting parts. There is no guarantee that one can sell a pin at a higher price in the future, in fact….history shows that is not case until recently, especially if you factor in inflation.

    Most importantly… operating pins is based around making money now on what one has, not selling pins/inventory.

    #257 2 days ago

    Explain to me how wonka le or gnr le gave more features than Godzilla premium

    #258 2 days ago
    Quoted from nicoy3k:

    Explain to me how wonka le or gnr le gave more features than Godzilla premium

    Ummm BUILD QUALITY hello?!?

    #259 2 days ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Ummm BUILD QUALITY hello?!?

    Yes put both on a scale. The heavier one is MOAR QUALITY.

    #260 2 days ago
    Quoted from Palmer:

    We literally had an OP post a few hours ago that he needs the latest and greatest every time. WPC is not much cheaper nowadays. I suppose it depends on the title but generally the more popular, the more expensive. Are you an OP because you say older games earn about the same from your own personal experience.

    You surmised accurately.

    But I would also even say depending on the title they earn even less as a whole, star wars and Ghostbusters did triple than any of my other games for about two weeks when I dropped them, then earned less than half of said games because regulars knew their own ball times and didn't see the value with such brutal games. By the time I made them easy it was too late. I would imagine turtles is the same way. I finally pulled those- Ghostbusters went home(love it) starwars I rented to a dentist for while for kids room.

    Every op I'm sure is different but ops I know aren't running a Stern army at their locations it's just too expensive.

    #261 2 days ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    So much hate for LZ in this thread. I just got my Premium and it kicks ass!

    Not so much just ur regular douchebags. They tend to be JJP/BW fanboys who needed a fancy light show and sculpted toys otherwise the game sucks.

    -3
    #262 2 days ago

    Hell Stern can raise the price all they want. I still think the prices high. I’m still going to buy what my budget (My wife) will allow.

    #263 2 days ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    So much hate for LZ in this thread. I just got my Premium and it kicks ass! Haters are missing out on a great game.

    Same here .LZ rocks!

    #264 2 days ago

    On the operator side of things , for what it’s worth I’m a average Joe and I’ve wondered why it’s only $1 to play a $8k machine for 5-10 minutes .Worse yet $2 for 3 plays .I’d pay double without blinking an eye .

    -3
    #265 2 days ago
    Quoted from NPO:

    Maybe if big companies paid a livable wage for manufacturing and other jobs there wouldn't BE a labor shortage.

    Never understood this theory,"I'm not going to work and sit at home unless I get payed what I want."
    Its never worked that way until people were payed by the government to sit at home. Everyone I talked to are being offered double pay and bonuses to work to cover for the lazy. Take nursing for example or GE down the road from you.

    #266 2 days ago

    I had been out on Sterns since JJP and Spooky upped their game, now it's official.

    This new pricing structure is insulting...Their quality sucks, cheap, plastic pro for 6800?!!! Completely Absurd Gary!!!

    #267 2 days ago
    Quoted from Kkoss24:

    On the operator side of things , for what it’s worth I’m a average Joe and I’ve wondered why it’s only $1 to play a $8k machine for 5-10 minutes .Worse yet $2 for 3 plays .I’d pay double without blinking an eye .

    Would you pay based on a timer?

    What if you walked up to a game, scanned your phone, and just played. When your last game ends and you don't start another it charges your credit card at a rate the operator can setup.

    So maybe it's just $5 for 10 minutes. And there's very little friction in the transaction cause you just swipe a phone and forget about the coins.

    This also might get ops more money since people tend to spend more when they don't realize they are spending more.

    #268 2 days ago

    I think the elephant in the room both sides are missing is that alot of the LE buyers are buying simply to get a machine in hand, now. If I'm not mistaken, there is still a backlog of orders for Mandalorian Premium and Stern is moving on to the next pin without delivering them. Buying an LE gets you moved to the front of the line. I wonder how much of the demand for LEs will disappear once you can go to your local distributor and buy most premiums again with no wait.

    -2
    #269 2 days ago
    Quoted from sataneatscheese:

    I think the elephant in the room both sides are missing is that alot of the LE buyers are buying simply to get a machine in hand, now. If I'm not mistaken, there is still a backlog of orders for Mandalorian Premium and Stern is moving on to the next pin without delivering them. Buying an LE gets you moved to the front of the line. I wonder how much of the demand for LEs will disappear once you can go to your local distributor and buy most premiums again with no wait.

    LEs do not come out first - you don't get a fast pass and skip the line.

    #270 2 days ago
    Quoted from NPO:

    Maybe if big companies paid a livable wage for manufacturing and other jobs there wouldn't BE a labor shortage.

    So Stern pays the line people good wages and the price of a new game goes up even more to cover it. Are you going to switch back to complaining about prices at that point?

    I don't think Stern is gouging their buyers, now or in the past. They're reacting to economic and market forces that extend far beyond pinball. Pinball machines have gone up, what, 15%? Meanwhile pool chlorine is clocking in at 50-100% more than last year.

    #271 2 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    LEs do not come out first - you don't get a fast pass and skip the line

    Mandalorian LEs did indeed come before the premiums. Some Pros for locations preceded those, but mostly for ops and no premiums. If you want the premium features, the LE is the quickest way to obtain them nowadays.

    #272 2 days ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    Meanwhile pool chlorine is clocking in at 50-100% more than last year.

    switch to salt, $6 a bag, need maybe three bags a season at most.

    #273 2 days ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    If you think this is sad, count your blessings. You’re a very lucky person.

    Say no Mo

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    #274 2 days ago

    I can understand home buyers walking away from NIB pricing and I can also understand other home buyers grabbing up NIB dream themes regardless of pricing.
    Where I'm confused is the operator arena. I'm not sure operators will jump on board with Pros that cost quite a bit more and have a longer RIO. That seems like a very steep hill to climb in the future.

    #275 2 days ago
    Quoted from FlippyD:

    Would you pay based on a timer?
    What if you walked up to a game, scanned your phone, and just played. When your last game ends and you don't start another it charges your credit card at a rate the operator can setup.
    So maybe it's just $5 for 10 minutes. And there's very little friction in the transaction cause you just swipe a phone and forget about the coins.
    This also might get ops more money since people tend to spend more when they don't realize they are spending more.

    A timer would be cool with me .I have pins at home but when I take my kids out $20 (there’s 3 of us) lasts a good 2 hrs .Taking then to a Imax movie tickets alone is like $45 for basically 2 hours .One your sitting in a chair starting at a screen and the other you are in control of your entertainment .Just saying playing these pins is at the very minimum the same fun level as a good movie shouldn’t it cost the same ?

    #276 2 days ago
    Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:

    You surmised accurately.
    But I would also even say depending on the title they earn even less as a whole, star wars and Ghostbusters did triple than any of my other games for about two weeks when I dropped them, then earned less than half of said games because regulars knew their own ball times and didn't see the value with such brutal games. By the time I made them easy it was too late. I would imagine turtles is the same way. I finally pulled those- Ghostbusters went home(love it) starwars I rented to a dentist for while for kids room.
    Every op I'm sure is different but ops I know aren't running a Stern army at their locations it's just too expensive.

    I always like hearing from the op's perspective. Thanks for sharing.

    21
    #277 2 days ago

    Yes I agree ., It is bullshit when companies raise prices for know reason and just say that's the market..so unfair...oh wait..but not when your the seller right??? You want people to pay your ridiculous prices right..get the most you can...works both ways.

    Screenshot_20210915-135924 (resized).png
    -6
    #278 2 days ago
    Quoted from Mitoska:

    Yes I agree ., It is bullshit when companies raise prices for know reason and just say that's the market..so unfair...oh wait..but not when your the seller right??? You want people to pay your ridiculous prices right..get the most you can...works both ways.
    [quoted image]

    I don't want people to pay those prices - people pay the prices. The market is insane right now. I'm selling everything not nailed down except for the two games I got from whodey. I'm just choosing not to buy any more due to pinflation. I also have been flipping GPUs since people are insane in that market as well.

    #279 2 days ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    switch to salt, $6 a bag, need maybe three bags a season at most.

    I haven't checked my chlorine in over a month..don't really have to.......love salt. Do it and don't look back.

    #280 2 days ago

    Stern must really be banking on this connected pinball thing putting a lot more coin in the boxes. Its pretty hard to be a company that claims to be so pro-operator and then shoving this significant price change up their asses.

    #281 2 days ago

    Who actually thinks Stern needs to "get while the getting is good"???!??!???! Does someone actually think the prices are going to get lower again? Give your head a shake. This is just an ignorant bump up, this prices me out on new. Good riddance to me I spose

    -1
    #282 2 days ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    Mandalorian LEs did indeed come before the premiums. Some Pros for locations preceded those, but mostly for ops and no premiums. If you want the premium features, the LE is the quickest way to obtain them nowadays.

    The point he was making was that if you buy an le - you are going to get a game now - just not the case.

    #283 2 days ago
    Quoted from PismoArcade:

    Same here. I remember at the time thinking $3799 was outrageous for a NIB pin.
    I sold it a couple of years ago and I kick myself daily.

    With inflation that's around $5900 today. Decent one worth as much or more today as well. People always complain about buying prices but don't hear anyone complain about prices when selling a pin. Nobody seems to be complaining about LE prices crossing $10000. Why? Because you can flip them for much more.

    #284 2 days ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    With inflation that's around $5900 today. Decent one worth as much or more today as well. People always complain about buying prices but don't hear anyone complain about prices when selling a pin. Nobody seems to be complaining about LE prices crossing $10000. Why? Because you can flip them for much more.

    Not a lot of people get a chance at an LE.
    And many don't sell them either.

    #285 2 days ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    With inflation that's around $5900 today. Decent one worth as much or more today as well. People always complain about buying prices but don't hear anyone complain about prices when selling a pin. Nobody seems to be complaining about LE prices crossing $10000. Why? Because you can flip them for much more.

    Damn, I'm so pissed that I sold my original alien for only $11,500 (true story) how dare they charge 9k for a refake.

    #286 2 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    The point he was making was that if you buy an le - you are going to get a game now - just not the case.

    Depends, you could get lucky on the Stern direct-sales site, or have an 'in' with a distributor. Or just pay a flipper. Either way you'd have premium features before premium buyers.

    #287 2 days ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    Depends, you could get lucky on the Stern direct-sales site, or have an 'in' with a distributor. Or just pay a flipper. Either way you'd have premium features before premium buyers.

    True - but his point wasn't about getting before the premium, just getting a pin now.

    #288 2 days ago

    I'm thinking about buying one of these instead of deadpool...

    hod4-dlx-cabinet_jpg_1024x1024 (resized).jpg
    #289 2 days ago

    I keep reading that inflation and costs rising on all products/labor is the reason Stern keeps raising prices. My question is, will the prices fall when everything else does? I don't think so, but what do I know......

    #290 2 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    I also have been flipping GPUs since people are insane in that market as well.

    Ah, so you're one of those people making it so I can't GPUs at MSRP for clients that need high end GPUs for design work. Those people aren't insane, they are trying to make a living and do their work.

    Thanks.

    #291 2 days ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Ummm BUILD QUALITY hello?!?

    //<![CDATA[
    window.__mirage2 = {petok:"4def4cd7b5feab893c084950690efcf4edc18c19-1631731147-1800"};
    //]]>

    B.S. What makes it built better than a Stern, or AP, or CGC?

    #292 2 days ago

    Your sarcasm detector is broken.

    #293 2 days ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    B.S. What makes it built better than a Stern, or AP, or CGC?

    You know me better than that

    #294 2 days ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    Ah, so you're one of those people making it so I can't GPUs at MSRP for clients that need high end GPUs for design work. Those people aren't insane, they are trying to make a living and do their work.
    Thanks.

    No - that's where people are wrong it isn't me flipping 3 gpus that is doing that - the market has changed with crypto and they don't care what they pay. I have a gaming pc without a gpu right now because the world is insane.

    I also found out a friend that builds virtual pins business was hurting because of the gpu market, so I managed to get him a card (and no I didn't mark it up)

    #295 2 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    LEs do not come out first - you don't get a fast pass and skip the line.

    Yes you do. They are making a few pros now and LEs go on the line the end of September. All LEs will be delivered by Halloween. After that, I don’t think you see more Godzilla’s made until 2022

    #296 2 days ago
    Quoted from nicoy3k:

    Yes you do. They are making a few pros now and LEs go on the line the end of September. All LEs will be delivered by Halloween. After that, I don’t think you see more Godzilla’s made until 2022

    you just contradicted yourself.

    #297 2 days ago

    Gotta say, this thread is the most fun I've had on pinside in a while. Truth be told the market is what it is - can't blame anyone for taking what they can get these days including Stern.

    #298 2 days ago

    When I was a kid playing pinball on location, NIB 4 player Williams machines were around $825 out the door at the Detroit distributor Martin & Snyder. When Williams Gold Rush came out, I wanted one soooo bad. I begged my parents to buy one for our home. Mom was a homemaker and Dad was a carpenter. He probably made $18K/year if there was some overtime. It was not possible for a working man to afford a NIB pin with a family.

    We played on location (2/25¢ play is the Profit Way). He did save cash from doing side jobs and bought a used pin for $275 a little bit later though.

    Thus, NIB pins don't make much sense for a home. The manufacturers know this. And yes, there was no hobby like there is now.

    I have no desire for any more pins at home. I sold or gave away most to friends when I moved. Yeah, a Spanish Eyes and Bally Playboy among them. Banning prices for them would have been nice.

    From now on, I'll play them at PHoF, PAGG, Casino arcades and the VFW when I'm back in that area.

    #299 2 days ago

    Anyone ever look at the posters complaining about price hikes only to see $50k-$100k+ collections in their profile?

    #300 2 days ago
    Quoted from midcoastsurf:

    Anyone ever look at the posters complaining about price hikes only to see $50k-$100k+ collections in their profile?

    Take a look at my history - only had a max of 44 at one time, but went through a few in my time.

    There are 686 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 14.

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