(Topic ID: 300400)

F You Stern and your price increases

By WeirPinball

35 days ago


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    There are 1199 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 24.
    #101 35 days ago

    Component prices are up, what do you expect them to do? Combine that with a ultra hot market, they'd be fools not to. I don't see what the fuss here is.

    Jeff

    #102 35 days ago
    Quoted from brickbuilder14:

    The price of EVERYTHING that is scarce, hard to duplicate, and involves labor or materials has gone up significantly due to inflation. In 2019 an LE was $9,000. Now it’s $10,500. That is a small 15% increase.
    Now let me ask you all a question. How much has your home increased in value since 2019? 20%??? 30%???
    How about your stock portfolio? How much has it increased since 2019? 50%?? 75%??
    Pinball pricing is currently below other assets.
    The US dollar is no longer worth what it was just two short years ago. Everyone reading this has seen their house and stocks and any other assets they own increase in value due to inflation.
    Inflation will be the biggest problem in the US over the coming years. This is simply par for the course right now.

    And everyone cashed out of their house right? That is a paper gain at this point. Now does it make you feel weathier - probably

    #103 35 days ago

    There's three guys in a room:

    Guy A bought a Twilight Zone for $1,000 and expects $1,000 out of it.

    Guy B bought a Twilight Zone for $1,000 and expects $8,000 out of it.

    Guy C bought a Twilight Zone for $8,000 and expects $8,000 out of it.

    Guy A wins (and sleeps the best at night) whether the market continues to skyrocket, or crashes. I'd say Guy C is the only one at risk, and Guy B is just being a greedy bitch that can't really suffer a loss or a risk rather than one that is perceived, rather than an actual loss considering he only paid a grand for the thing.

    If this hobby focused more on "getting what I paid for it" rather than "value" we'd have a lovely pool of games and a stagnant pricing for everything, but alas that's not the way the world turns.

    This is more focused on the used games but all in all it all affects new game pricing as well

    #104 35 days ago
    Quoted from brickbuilder14:

    The price of EVERYTHING that is scarce, hard to duplicate, and involves labor or materials has gone up significantly due to inflation. In 2019 an LE was $9,000. Now it’s $10,500. That is a small 15% increase.
    Now let me ask you all a question. How much has your home increased in value since 2019? 20%??? 30%???
    How about your stock portfolio? How much has it increased since 2019? 50%?? 75%??
    Pinball pricing is currently below other assets.
    The US dollar is no longer worth what it was just two short years ago. Everyone reading this has seen their house and stocks and any other assets they own increase in value due to inflation.
    Inflation will be the biggest problem in the US over the coming years. This is simply par for the course right now.

    $1500 is a small price increase for a pinball machine? LOL. Why not charge $12k, hell maybe $15k for an LE. Let's get extra crazy at this point.

    Quoted from jeffro01:

    Component prices are up, what do you expect them to do? Combine that with a ultra hot market, they'd be fools not to. I don't see what the fuss here is.
    Jeff

    Components are up that much to justify a $1k - $1,500 price increase? I don't see it.

    #105 35 days ago
    Quoted from Gameseum:

    There's three guys in a room:
    Guy A bought a Twilight Zone for $1,000 and expects $1,000 out of it.
    Guy B bought a Twilight Zone for $1,000 and expects $8,000 out of it.
    Guy C bought a Twilight Zone for $8,000 and expects $8,000 out of it.
    Guy A wins (and sleeps the best at night) whether the market continues to skyrocket, or crashes. I'd say Guy C is the only one at risk, and Guy B is just being a greedy bitch that can't really suffer a loss or a risk rather than one that is perceived, rather than an actual loss considering he only paid a grand for the thing.
    If this hobby focused more on "getting what I paid for it" rather than "value" we'd have a lovely pool of games and a stagnant pricing for everything, but alas that's not the way the world turns.
    This is more focused on the used games but all in all it all affects new game pricing as well

    You forot guy D who repairs/restores a,b, and C's pins

    15
    #106 35 days ago
    Quoted from Kkoss24:

    With pinball the smart thing to do would be sell every pin you have and wait it out but would any of us really do this ?

    The temptation to sell at these prices is real, but what would I spend the money on? Everything else is inflated right now. And what's cooler to own than pins? And I don't love the idea of sitting on more fiat currency during an inflationary period. And if shit keeps inflating I'll never get them back.

    #107 35 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    You forot guy D who repairs/restores a,b, and C's pins

    Guy D wasn't in the room because Guy B said he was firm on his $30 offer to repin the entire set of boards because the game "is old" meanwhile has it listed for $9k

    #108 35 days ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    It's tempting to sell at these prices, but what would I spend the money on? Everything else is inflated right now. And what's cooler to own than pins? And I don't love the idea of sitting on more fiat currency during an inflationary period.

    Exactly where I'm at. Not sure what to buy, but no more nib pins for me.

    #109 35 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    $1500 is a small price increase for a pinball machine? LOL. Why not charge $12k, hell maybe $15k for an LE. Let's get extra crazy at this point.

    Components are up that much to justify a $1k - $1,e500 price increase? I don't see it.

    If you owned a business and you sold out of ALL your product in 3 minutes wouldn’t you increase the price? Stern should absolutely price their LE at $12,000. Because the evidence has shown that $10,500 is too low given the demand.

    I’m shocked that it is only 16% higher than their prices were pre March 2020. Have you checked your grocery bill? Or tried to buy new furniture? Or put in a new pool, or buy a used car? A 16% increase is much lower than I was expecting. One year from now LEs will be $11,500 and still be sold out

    #110 35 days ago
    Quoted from Gameseum:

    Guy D wasn't in the room because Guy B said he was firm on his $30 offer to repin the entire set of boards because the game "is old"

    Better yet guy b pays d to restore and pimp the game to flip, then c pays d to undo all the mods. D finally reveals he is really a.

    #111 35 days ago
    Quoted from EJS:

    We probably aren’t facing a curve. The one pictured there actually goes back down.

    It's definitely a curve, just as you suggest, not a bell curve.

    #112 35 days ago

    And yet Stern will still sell out the LEs at $10.5k. :/

    #113 35 days ago
    Quoted from brickbuilder14:

    If you owned a business and you sold out of ALL your product in 3 minutes wouldn’t you increase the price? Stern should absolutely price their LE at $12,000. Because the evidence has shown that $10,500 is too low given the demand.
    I’m shocked that it is only 16% higher than their prices were pre March 2020. Have you checked your grocery bill? Or tried to buy new furniture? Or put in a new pool, or buy a used car? A 16% increase is much lower than I was expecting. One year from now LEs will be $11,500 and still be sold out

    Tons of distributors still sitting on Beatles stock, first run LZ stock, TMNT stock, etc.

    There's a lot of stuff that sells in minutes and a lot of stuff that doesn't sell... ever.

    I'm surprised they feel consistent enough to warrant an increase. The success of Jurassic Park probably got them all excited

    I know the Beatles overstock is driving them all nuts

    #114 35 days ago
    Quoted from Gameseum:

    There's three guys in a room:
    Guy A bought a Twilight Zone for $1,000 and expects $1,000 out of it.
    Guy B bought a Twilight Zone for $1,000 and expects $8,000 out of it.
    Guy C bought a Twilight Zone for $8,000 and expects $8,000 out of it.
    Guy A wins (and sleeps the best at night) whether the market continues to skyrocket, or crashes. I'd say Guy C is the only one at risk, and Guy B is just being a greedy bitch that can't really suffer a loss or a risk rather than one that is perceived, rather than an actual loss considering he only paid a grand for the thing.
    If this hobby focused more on "getting what I paid for it" rather than "value" we'd have a lovely pool of games and a stagnant pricing for everything, but alas that's not the way the world turns.
    This is more focused on the used games but all in all it all affects new game pricing as well

    So: (3 different TZ machines.)

    Guy A's buyer pays $1000. Guy A's buyer is a Guy B type of Guy. Guy A's buyer's buyer pays $8000.
    Guy B's buyer pays $8000.
    Guy C's buyer pays $8000.

    Therefore the price of all TZ machines is $8000.

    #115 35 days ago
    Quoted from titanpenguin:

    Thank the flippers. If you don't think stern is watching what people are paying for a NIB second hand game you're kidding yourself.

    Thank the idiots paying the flippers

    #116 35 days ago
    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    So:
    Guy A buyer paid $1000. Guy A buyer is a Guy B type of Guy. Guy A buyer's buyer pays $8000.
    Guy B buyer paid $8000.
    Guy C buyer paid $8000.
    Therefore the price of TZ is $8000.

    I didn't mean they were all buying the same TZ. The problem is mainly in Guy B, albeit I was just making a general point towards the previous poster I was having a discussion with.

    On one hand you could blame Guy B, but one the other hand you would be blaming him for asking a price that is selling/doable and on-market. It's a seller AND a buyer thang.

    People and companies listing games for extreme prices -> other people fulfilling said prices -> voila here we are, and counting

    Supply and demand is occurring. Two parties responsible. However the only one that can really stop it would be the buyers, because god knows the sellers won't (naturally. It would take a thousand sellers underpricing games for no reason and shooting themselves selflessly in feet big time to cause a revolution, it's impossible. Buyers can do it though...)

    #117 35 days ago
    Quoted from brickbuilder14:If you owned a business and you sold out of ALL your product in 3 minutes wouldn’t you increase the price? Stern should absolutely price their LE at $12,000. Because the evidence has shown that $10,500 is too low given the demand.
    I’m shocked that it is only 16% higher than their prices were pre March 2020. Have you checked your grocery bill? Or tried to buy new furniture? Or put in a new pool, or buy a used car? A 16% increase is much lower than I was expecting. One year from now LEs will be $11,500 and still be sold out

    Hes not wrong, sadly.. I think its just the beginning...

    #118 35 days ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    I'm with you. Plus, the QR scanner is gay.
    P.s. I miss SAM era Stern.

    You think the QR code wants to have sex with you?

    #119 35 days ago
    Quoted from PinBalt:

    You think the QR code wants to have sex with you?

    IS that on the feature matrix?

    #120 35 days ago

    It took a price hike for you to say NO? as if all the quality issues aren't enough

    #121 35 days ago
    Quoted from Gameseum:

    I know the Beatles overstock is driving them all nuts

    On a recent podcast, Kaminkow claimed all existing Beatles are sold out & orders for the unbuilt ones are sold out as well.

    He lying?

    #122 35 days ago
    Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:

    Chump talk in here…we’re all 2 or 3 or maybe 10 times richer than we were a decade ago unless you had no irons in the fire.
    Screw my kids, they’ll just blow it all on Tesla’s and apple products anyways…buy whatcha want!
    Sent from my iPhone

    <Off topic but in topic>

    I dunno man, I nodded then laughed at your comment, see no upvotes, checked your history and your a fine classically trained man that cuts no fat off his comments.

    I like you, and Pinside needs your style amongst the others, which is a lot of low-T bitching and moaning amongst a cohort of truly helpful pinheads who are either helpful or can enjoy truth-in-jokes
    -jabbing without falling over and calling mom.

    Upvoting you is like supporting the atheist during the Middle Ages; have an updoot sir. I think covid ruined supply chains, stand-up comedy, as well as getting timely testosterone shots in stock for our middle aged+ friends, and that’s the real issue here.

    People bitching over $500-$1.5K in a hobby where disposable income is king… sheesh; while everything costs 15%+ more this year other than pins before “today.”

    How many price-flips does it take to get to the center of a pinhead? The word will never know.

    #123 35 days ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    On a recent podcast, Kaminkow claimed all existing Beatles are sold out & orders for the unbuilt ones are sold out as well.
    He lying?

    Pinballs.com has them listed as in stock and they usually keep it pretty up to date

    #124 35 days ago

    IMO most issues beg for an illustrative baseball comparison and a cargument.

    During their respective careers, both Ted Williams and Stan Musial were on I believe one year salary contracts and ASKED for a cut in pay in the '40's or '50s because they did not live up to their own very high standards of performance. Both were probably the highest paid players in their respective leagues at one time. Both of them spent their aging retired years signing autographs for chump change. Both of them would EASILY command $30 plus million a year on guaranteed multi-year contracts if they were active MLB players today. No way, IMO, would either of them ask for a pay cut in this day and age. Even if they did, the labor union would not allow it as it could set a precedent for other players who don't want to do that. Williams and Musial would not need to sign autographs to make ends meet in the current situation in retirement because they would have made so much money when they were active players.

    The point is, times change.

    It's not just pinball. Car dealers are selling 2 year old used cars for more than they sold for brand new 2 years prior. Or I should say that they are TRYING to do that. They also probably PAID more for that traded-in used car then they would have prior to COVID supply chain shocks. I was told by a car dealer that cars appreciate in value just like homes do to justify that pricing on a used car. So 120 years of vehicle depreciation accounting no longer applies I guess. I was able to buy a 2 year old car (same make but a different one from another dealer) I wanted that was price discounted every week for 5 or 6 weeks as it sat on the lot. I got my price, surprised that it sat unsold for so long it was as clean as a brand new vehicle and coming off of a 2 year lease. Weird times indeed.

    -2
    #125 35 days ago
    Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:

    Chump talk in here…we’re all 2 or 3 or maybe 10 times richer than we were a decade ago unless you had no irons in the fire.
    Screw my kids, they’ll just blow it all on Tesla’s and apple products anyways…buy whatcha want!
    Sent from my iPhone

    <Off topic but in topic>

    I dunno man, I nodded then laughed at your comment, see no upvotes, checked your history and your a fine classically trained man that cuts no fat off his comments.

    I like you, and Pinside needs your style amongst the others, which is a lot of low-T bitching and moaning amongst a cohort of truly helpful pinheads who are either helpful or can enjoy truth-in-jokes
    -jabbing without falling over and calling mom.

    Upvoting you is like supporting the atheist during the Middle Ages; have an updoot sir. I think covid ruined supply chains, stand-up comedy, as well as getting timely testosterone shots in stock for our middle aged+ friends, and that’s the real issue here.

    People bitching over $500-$1.5K in a hobby where ultra-disposable income is king… sheesh; while everything costs 15%+ more this year other than pins before “today.”

    But… my fear is for the operators. The price hikes are terrible for them. Not sure the specifics of how it should work, but feel like they need special discounted pricing versus us HUO buyers.

    And before my red bumpers, I up/down vote not what I agree on, but what adds to conversation (though not sure this did lol). It’s not an “I like you” button but a “thanks for clearly articulating your opinion which I may or may not agree with.”
    All pinheads should try it some day, or wait for Stern to buy out Pinside and make it an achievement badge… though you won’t get og status at that point.

    #126 35 days ago

    Do you think CGC was waiting to see the response from the community on Sterns price increase? Is this one of the reasons they held Cactus Canyon? I would want nothing more then CGC being competitive with there pricing. They are a proven manufacturer with the ability to grab market share. They also have 5 games in the pipeline. Come on CGC do the right thing and lower the prices so more people can enjoy this hobby.

    #127 35 days ago
    Quoted from Gameseum:

    Tons of distributors still sitting on Beatles stock, first run LZ stock, TMNT stock, etc.
    There's a lot of stuff that sells in minutes and a lot of stuff that doesn't sell... ever.
    I'm surprised they feel consistent enough to warrant an increase. The success of Jurassic Park probably got them all excited
    I know the Beatles overstock is driving them all nuts

    Sounds like people should go out and purchase some old NIB games then! All great earners and fun to play (except TMNT lol)

    #128 35 days ago

    ***** THIS JUST IN *****

    Gary was seen spotted participating in the Banning auction recently, hence the price change going forward.

    stern (resized).jpg
    #129 35 days ago

    The inflation rate since January is the biggest in 13 years. It's not prices going up gradualy and making up over the years.

    SmartSelect_20210915-012749_Chrome (resized).jpg
    #130 35 days ago
    Quoted from Viggin900:

    The inflation rate since January is the biggest in 13 years. It's not prices going up gradualy and making up over the years.
    [quoted image]

    You need to show the entire graph… not just the snippet. Our inflation rate is just a little higher than normal. Economists generally like to keep it at 3-4% (not saying you are doing anything purposely deceiving- just that a longer window is more helpful)
    2EB206A7-B99D-4F1C-B3E2-B8ED7EC7BC36 (resized).jpeg

    #131 35 days ago
    Quoted from NC_Pin:

    You need to show the entire graph… not just the snippet. Our inflation rate is just a little higher than normal. Economists generally like to keep it at 3-4% (not saying you are doing anything purposely deceiving- just that a longer window is more helpful)
    [quoted image]

    In 1980 you could get 11% T-Bills

    In 2021 you can get 1% T-Bills

    Call me when the real inflation hits. Although that's not to say the economy is in a perfectly great spot right now. Shit's hard for a lot of people.

    #132 35 days ago
    Quoted from PinBalt:

    You think the QR code wants to have sex with you?

    Maybe

    #133 35 days ago
    Quoted from chickenscratch:

    But… my fear is for the operators. The price hikes are terrible for them. Not sure the specifics of how it should work, but feel like they need special discounted pricing versus us HUO buyers.

    What?

    #134 35 days ago

    A mediocre game that can sell out in just 4 hours, is a clear example that demand is sky high. So prices go up and up and up. You all created this money monster, you simply fed it too much, too quickly.

    #135 35 days ago

    Don’t make me type it in all caps

    #136 35 days ago
    Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

    My first NIB was TSPP for $3800. I got serious regrets on trading that away. Ugh.

    Yep. My Simpsons was a NIB fourth run in 2005 for $3795 delivered. Wonder what a pro with six flippers, an expensive license, finished code and and an upper playfield would cost these days?

    -8
    #137 35 days ago
    Quoted from mikeflan:

    Yep. My Simpsons was a NIB fourth run in 2005 for $3795 delivered. Wonder what a pro with six flippers, an expensive license, finished code and and an upper playfield would cost these days?

    The same as Godzilla. I bought a Congo in 2010 for $1800 now cause of demand? well u know. A stern at that time was 4 to 5K but there's inflation and that was 10 years ago let along 17 years ago. Its 2 high I agree but that's life.

    Quoted from chickenscratch:

    Don’t make me type it in all caps

    That's good.
    Oh and fuck the operators. Let em eat cake. If anything the home owners should get the break, we gross exactly zero from our purchase and will almost certainly take a loss when its time to sell.

    651690c8-47c0-4ffa-b131-5adac17dd532_screenshot (resized).jpg
    #138 35 days ago

    We need a loyalty program. Buy so many and you get a discount. I bet we will love the new prices in ten years when they are higher and want to go back. You think Godzilla will be more than $1 a play in route?

    22
    #139 35 days ago

    For all those people saying that A pro or Prem or Le is not worth X amount.

    It clearly is WORTH that amount, or they wouldn't sell. They may not be worth that mount to YOU, but what YOU are prepared to pay for a machine does not govern the prices Stern (or anyone else can charge).

    Covid, Brexit, Inflation, BOM, Supply Issues, Rising price of components, Weather are all just red herrings when it comes to pricing.

    Demand is far outstripping capacity to supply - therefore Stern would be mad to not raise their prices.
    Once demand starts to reduce and get closer to supply capacity - prices will stabilise.

    IF it ever gets to the case that demand drops off far below supply, they will have to reduce prices further. If that means that they have to lower the price below what is profitable for them they will shut up shop.

    Stern is a business. They are not a charity, they are not in it to 'promote pinball' (other than to increase demand for their own product).
    You are not entitled to a machine and what YOU can afford.

    FWIW a PRO in the UK is £7,100 = $9,818. I would happily pay what you guys in US are paying for your machines - but everyone thinks that THEY are entitled to it cheaper, but will happily get as much as they can when trying to sell it. Or that they should have a wage increase above and beyond everyone else.

    As pinball becomes more popular, and more people want to own one, prices will rise - it really is basic economics.

    #140 35 days ago
    Quoted from BAWitaba:

    Actually in a video Gary said the licensers stated that their customers are nothing more that a bunch of thieves and would rather not work with Stern.

    So… you lied then?

    #141 35 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    $1500 is a small price increase for a pinball machine? LOL. Why not charge $12k, hell maybe $15k for an LE. Let's get extra crazy at this point.

    Components are up that much to justify a $1k - $1,500 price increase? I don't see it.

    Labor prices and labor shortages are a HUGE issue. I can promise you this that Stern pays employees more today than they did 1 year ago. I also can promise you if you asked them if they’re fully staffed, they’d tell you that they could use another 20-40 employees

    -1
    #142 35 days ago
    Quoted from WJxxxx:

    Demand is far outstripping capacity to supply

    I see this being said a lot and this would be true if there are no machines for sale. But there are plenty of machines for sale new or used.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds

    https://pinside.com/pinball/market/new-games

    -3
    #144 35 days ago
    Quoted from Oneangrymo:

    Yeah I dont know about you guys, but my income hasn't increased at all, in fact its been stagnant for 10 years, yet everything keeps going up!
    Help!

    I truly feel sorry for you. Thoughts and prayers.

    #145 35 days ago
    Quoted from Yesh23:

    Labor prices and labor shortages are a HUGE issue. I can promise you this that Stern pays employees more today than they did 1 year ago. I also can promise you if you asked them if they’re fully staffed, they’d tell you that they could use another 20-40 employees

    I can attest to this - I work At a Chicago mfg plant and we make parts (not for pinball…yet - I’m working on that) labor shortage is a HUGE problem right now. With Amazon offering $18 an hr plus a $3,000 sign on bonus, finding people who are willing to do labor In a plant is extremely difficult. No shock to see Stern raise their prices - add in shortages of pretty much every raw material too - it’s a tough go right now. Demand is just too high for everything - hand to mouth these days that’s for sure. Raising pricing when demand is high is not uncommon. Ride the gravy train when you can and get lean during the eventual downturn.

    #146 35 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    And you can hear the game sounds...

    Should come down to comics to games. Never crowded and always hear the games. Great spot.

    #147 35 days ago
    Quoted from Gameseum:

    There's three guys in a room:
    Guy A bought a Twilight Zone for $1,000 and expects $1,000 out of it.
    Guy B bought a Twilight Zone for $1,000 and expects $8,000 out of it.
    Guy C bought a Twilight Zone for $8,000 and expects $8,000 out of it.
    Guy A wins (and sleeps the best at night) whether the market continues to skyrocket, or crashes. I'd say Guy C is the only one at risk, and Guy B is just being a greedy bitch that can't really suffer a loss or a risk rather than one that is perceived, rather than an actual loss considering he only paid a grand for the thing.
    If this hobby focused more on "getting what I paid for it" rather than "value" we'd have a lovely pool of games and a stagnant pricing for everything, but alas that's not the way the world turns.
    This is more focused on the used games but all in all it all affects new game pricing as well

    Good analogy, but I’d modify Guy C
    Guy C bought a Twilight Zone for $8,000 and expects $8,000 out of it, but gets $10k. This is where the market seems to be right now.

    #148 35 days ago
    Quoted from Brtlkat:

    I see this being said a lot and this would be true if there are no machines for sale. But there are plenty of machines for sale new or used.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds
    https://pinside.com/pinball/market/new-games

    This is a thread about Stern NIB prices - That is the supply & demand being discussed.

    Although I see you replied with the exact same comment on a similar thread 5 days ago. So either you are being deliberately obtuse, don't understand written English, or trolling.

    #149 35 days ago
    Quoted from titanpenguin:

    Thank the flippers. If you don't think stern is watching what people are paying for a NIB second hand game you're kidding yourself.

    This and people paying $1000 for shit toppers.

    #150 35 days ago
    Quoted from WJxxxx:

    This is a thread about Stern NIB prices - That is the supply & demand being discussed.

    Sure is that's why i had new first, Same thing plenty of machines to choose from.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/market/new-games

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