(Topic ID: 300400)

F You Stern and your price increases

By WeirPinball

41 days ago


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    There are 1216 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 25.
    24
    #51 41 days ago

    Thank the flippers. If you don't think stern is watching what people are paying for a NIB second hand game you're kidding yourself.

    #52 41 days ago
    Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

    If I'm not mistaken, if your deadpool you had on order was made this year, it would only incur a $200 price increase to cover the insider connected platform. After the new year, they get the new Godzilla rate.

    Is that true? I can't seem to get straight answers from distros. Would you mind sharing which distro is providing that info? I would love to order from them.

    #53 41 days ago
    Quoted from Glarrownage:

    Is that true? I can't seem to get straight answers from distros. Would you mind sharing which distro is providing that info? I would love to order from them.

    Build dates of 1/1/2022 and on have the new price.

    #54 41 days ago
    Quoted from PinballHelp:

    I think at this point, it's almost comparable to commission your own custom game.

    Big Trouble In Little China… daddy’s coming for you, baby! Hahaha!

    #55 41 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    Guess when the next run is

    That sucks, sir. I'm struggling with this one. I wanna own the full game and I normally an totally cool with a pro (prefer them most times), but this Godzilla is really feeling like a premium or bust title. And in a normal world, I should be able to wait a year and pick up someone's HUO for a 500 or so discount, but lately, the used premiums are NIB or more pricewise. And this increase pushes the premium over what my Ultraman Bloodsucker ran me. Crazy times, indeed.

    #56 41 days ago

    Just checked my fist Le nib was avatar $5500, my first pro nib was star trek $4300

    #57 41 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    Just checked my fist Le nib was avatar $5500, my first pro nib was star trek $4300

    My first NIB was TSPP for $3800. I got serious regrets on trading that away. Ugh.

    #58 41 days ago
    Quoted from titanpenguin:

    Thank the flippers. If you don't think stern is watching what people are paying for a NIB second hand game you're kidding yourself.

    Also thank the people buying from the flippers. If people refuse to pay those prices then the games will sit and the flippers will sweat. Especially if the flippers are buying these things on cards…let them sit on a huge balance for 90 days.

    #59 41 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    Just checked my fist Le nib was avatar $5500, my first pro nib was star trek $4300

    My NIB SM and LOTR were sub 4K. I didn't have any distributor connections yet but can only imagine what others were paying who were buying them for years. When I look at Godzilla Premium there is nothing in that machine that says it should cost more then 2x the prices of those games. I've been out buying NIB for a long time and stuck my toes back in the water for 1 dream theme recently and got screwed with quality control issues and that was the last straw.

    I still remember when Gary shit on collectors at the Expo all those years and it's something I will never forget. He would say machines were made for location and not home collections. Now these home collectors are the ones buying up all the machines and keeping the company afloat.

    -5
    #60 41 days ago

    Concerning price hikes - Stern Doesn't care about their customers. They've already stated that their customer base is nothing more than a bunch of thieves.

    #61 41 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    While I'm at it - going all in on my frustration - they have the gall to charge that much for a machine but not offer support. Well I guess if you get one reply out of ten support emails that will work, and don't try calling. Good grief!
    [quoted image]

    I've never had any issues with Stern support. For me, they've always gone above and beyond. I had an issue with a second hand MET Pre years ago where the coffin magnet wasn't working right. I asked a couple of questions about it, and they shipped me a new board for free, no questions asked. Then in the last year, I've had a few problems with my Avengers LE -- they sent the disk leveling kit, the updated subway, and two subway mechs (the original went bad, and the second one was defective). I've never tried calling, but have had great luck with emails.

    That said, these new prices are ridiculous, but I guess JJP set the price at $10.5 for GnR LE, and it's still apparently selling well, so....

    #62 41 days ago
    Quoted from BAWitaba:

    Concerning price hikes - Stern Doesn't care about their customers. They've already stated that their customer base is nothing more than a bunch of thieves.

    What? When?

    #63 41 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    This gave me the push to pick up an Alien - hey Melissa!

    All I need is for another 500 something people to do the same and maybe I can afford a new Stern.

    #64 41 days ago

    There is more demand for pinball games than there are machines to fill it. This has been the story for the last 23 years or so (think it bottomed in '97-98?) Prices been going up ever since.

    Problem is, right now_ the demand for games is far exceeding supply, mostly thanks to covid hosing up the supply chain. Every owners' thread here is filled with future owners waiting on backordered machines. How many thousands of games is Stern behind?

    Stern cannot allow themselves to become backordered til mid 2022 on mid 2021 prices, especially when labor and component costs are rising a fair bit more than they have in the past.

    Add in additional demand from everyone helped with stimulus (left) or lower taxes (right) and these prices increases are pretty much what one would expect. Sucks, but like others have said, everything's getting higher. I can sell my old games for newer ones if needed.

    19
    #65 41 days ago

    Really surprised at the reactions here. Everyones homes went up 10% or more some markets more than doubled. Inflation going wild. Yet 10% more on a luxury good with an included stern connection kit pre intalled is a surprise? Its a big hike. Yes. I get it. It hurts. But did you not see it coming. Just be happy whatever you own has gone up an equal pecentage.

    #66 41 days ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Build dates of 1/1/2022 and on have the new price.

    Can you clarify - is Stern tacking on $200 for NIB games made before 1/1 for QR code and then an additional hike after new year?

    #67 41 days ago

    Actually in a video Gary said the licensers stated that their customers are nothing more that a bunch of thieves and would rather not work with Stern.

    15
    #68 41 days ago

    Inflation, parts shortages and other things like energy and transportation costs are what you should be hating on. Anyone who thinks the development and BOM costs are not skyrocketing along with the retail prices is fooling themselves.

    #69 41 days ago
    Quoted from Vino:

    Can you clarify - is Stern tacking on $200 for NIB games made before 1/1 for QR code and then an additional hike after new year?

    Assume QR increase for everything built before year end, then all games being the same price as Zilla after year end.

    #70 41 days ago

    I bought a super clean used Sth pro way back when everybody was trashing it for 4800. Can we go back 10 months

    #71 41 days ago
    Quoted from titanpenguin:

    Thank the flippers. If you don't think stern is watching what people are paying for a NIB second hand game you're kidding yourself.

    Yep, that is the whole reason Stern brought back IMVE and SMVE. Stern wanted to to cash in on NIB since people were paying crazy money on used ones.

    14
    #72 41 days ago

    I'm working on building up my creative workshop. One of the things I've invested in is a CNC. Who knows, maybe I'll work on pinball mods again.

    In the meantime it's looking like it's going to be a month later than expected to get it, hopefully November. The people who do the aluminum extrusion are backed up, they can't service all their customers. The powder coaters used to have a 3 day turnaround. Now it's 21 days.

    Supply chains are f'd all over. It's not just the chip shortages. Am I happy about price increases? Hell no, but tbh I was already not buying, it doesn't change anything for me. My pain point is long passed, they're just games, ain't worth the coin to me. I have other ways to have fun.

    But I do think you have to understand that the pricing pressures are very real, and a lot of companies just don't have much choice. They can't get their product built quickly anymore. I have to think Stern is feeling it too, and I do feel for them.

    Just, not in a way where my sympathy is making me open my wallet.

    14
    #73 41 days ago

    Honestly I understand the reasoning behind the hike, I just can't justify buying them anymore. Maybe I've just been in the hobby too long. People told me I was crazy for paying the prices I did 13 years ago.

    #74 41 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    Honestly I understand the reasoning behind the hike, I just can't justify buying them anymore. Maybe I've just been in the hobby too long. People told me I was crazy for paying the prices I did 13 years ago.

    I would not buy most of my pins today. Prices are to high. Thank God i got them years and years ago.

    #75 41 days ago

    I sold most of my collection to friends, gave everyone a fair price, often what I paid. Wasn't trying to fleece people I knew. If I'd held on a few years could I have made more money? Sure, but the space was freed up for other pursuits, I have no regrets.

    But I was talking with a dealer friend the other day and he was telling me current prices. The White Water I sold a friend for $4k going for $8k now etc. It's just crazy town to me. Pandemic put a lot of extra pressure on prices for sure.

    Forget the Banning auction, as someone who's been in the hobby for years, and been around a lot of games and sales, I honestly have no clue what anything is worth anymore. My meter is broken.

    #76 41 days ago
    Quoted from jester523:

    You don't think the value is there if the machine retains value or even appreciates?

    Honestly, I don’t. Not at that price. I could be wrong and everyone laughs when people says this but there will be a ceiling at some point and this may be it. Do you really think a $7000 pro will appreciate that much? I see a lot of grumbling about the prices. If some of those grumblers stick to the word demand will go down, which will cause prices to go down on the secondary market. Plus, there are going to be a ton of Godzillas. It’s not going to be a rare pin. Anyone that wants one will be able to get one and no matter how great it is people will need to flip them at some point to freshen up their line up, make room, etc.

    -1
    #77 41 days ago

    I feel like I'm on an episode of the twilight zone. I literally made a similar thread 2 weeks ago saying this. Hell, I even used the phrase "a rising tide lifts all boats" back then, only to see the same phrase used here. All prices are going up as I said. Sterns, other manufactures, and used. It is bullshit. I can see this making some people go out of business, be it operators or distros.

    #78 41 days ago

    I was upset at first but everyone here has pinball machines .They’re all worth more now .The problem is most of us can’t get over the hump to sell any lmao .They’re like pets ….Family

    -3
    #79 41 days ago
    Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

    If I'm not mistaken, if your deadpool you had on order was made this year, it would only incur a $200 price increase to cover the insider connected platform. After the new year, they get the new Godzilla rate.

    Love calling it the GODZILLA RATE.

    What I see happening is the hobby going downhill. Normal ppl with low amounts/no expendable income will effectively be forced out. ALL prices will (continue to) rise, not just NIB. This makes it damn near impossible for the normal hobbyist to purchase their own.

    Then the operators see this and are very skeptical, or out altogether, simply bc the return is not there on NIB with problems, maintenance, etc.

    Sure the 1%ers will continue to purchase and brag and celebrate. The 99% will use our quarters on location at games that cost too much and then can't be maintained so then we quit playing them and there goes the hobby.

    Perhaps that's exactly what it will take for this BS pricing (used and nib) to hit a recession....

    -16
    #80 41 days ago

    Chump talk in here…we’re all 2 or 3 or maybe 10 times richer than we were a decade ago unless you had no irons in the fire.

    Screw my kids, they’ll just blow it all on Tesla’s and apple products anyways…buy whatcha want!

    Sent from my iPhone

    #81 41 days ago

    I’m an average joe that has worked construction jobs since HS .I work extra hrs to pay for the ones I have as i promised my wife it wouldn’t come out of “the fund “.Call it blood money or whatever .I just think when covid hit a lot of people with big bucks laying around discovered this hobby .As everyone here knows if you start down the rabbits hole your basically fucked unless you have big bank laying around .Could you imagine the collection you would have say if you were a professional athlete and got hooked ? I’d I made that kinda $ I’d buy ebery pin announced not blinking an eye .The good thing in this is operators should see a surge .Most of us will have to sell 1 or 2 to get something new and that’s not all that horrible .

    #82 41 days ago

    Soon enough they'll be on par with JJP pricing.

    At present JJP has what I would consider "collector pricing" and a lot of operators won't shoot that high for commercial locations, especially being able to get a Stern for much less (with 90% of laymen not giving a damn which brand it is or even knowing what is what), but as the gap thins it'll be interesting to see if more operators go towards Jersey Jack games.

    There are a lot of Stern games lately that made me scratch my head whether I'd rather get that, or pay extra for a JJP... and that's WITH the 2020 price difference. With the "pay extra" bargaining chip slowly being removed on top of that, I forsee a lot of operators going for the JJPs no question if they get much closer in price. (Albeit the difficulties of them seeming to hold up on location)

    Gary Stern has been all about the locations (to the point of some collector feeling insulted once... I remember reading a story about a crazy Stern collector who met Gary, all starry-eyed, excitedly told him how he spent like $50k on Stern games for his basement, and Gary shot back all deadpan with "But you're supporting the locations right?" He was pretty upset. Haha, poor guy.), but I hope he's being smart about not pricing out commercial locations especially with JJP being a thing.

    For me the price difference is a pain in the ass but I'll still likely buy, I mean not like there's another option. If I were a home collector I would probably think the opposite, but alas. (And if the home collectors stopped licking so many boots, it wouldn't be where it's at... blood isn't on the operators hands. The number is kind of arbitrary when you make it all back) Pinball as a whole is all kind of nuts now. When looking to buy a AAA game to get the customers really riled up, it's either pay $9k for a 29 year old Addams Family or $7k for a brand new Stern... the brand new Stern still makes the most sense from both an excitement perspective and a reliability perspective, in a commercial setting. It's flashy, you don't have to be a pinhead to know its worth, and it's plug and play, so there's all of that. At least I feel somewhat sane paying that much for a brand new piece of hardware. I feel like some people are so absorbed in this they don't feel the irony of paying $9k for a 29 year old game.

    #83 41 days ago

    EVERYTHING costs more compared to a year ago, and by a significant and increasing margin. All pinball machines in everyone’s collections are now worth more, just like their homes, cars, motorcycles, boats, PWCs, ATVs, RVs, and every other luxury or big-ticket item.

    None of this is arbitrary or unexplainable. Trillions were infused to dilute currency value and hyper-inflation is well on its way. Food is up and getting ready to skyrocket. Logistics are readying for a major shutdown, which means all goods of every kind.

    Griping about Stern pricing after 13 years of investment-beating profits from 250 pinball machine purchases doesn’t garner much sympathy from anyone rational. No one wants to spend more money than less money for anything. OSB and other building material costs are still up even after leveling off. A local $289K house is now selling for $329K, and real estate inventory is still catching up with demand in most urban populated cities.

    Gas and groceries are still going to be purchased, just like all need-based consumables. It’s not like Gary Stern is the exception to something that’s not happening in every major industry. Somebody will buy the pinball machines. Alien just got a markup by Pinball Bros. from $7,777 to $8,495. A new startup with no production track record and a non-original single title.

    Buy ‘em or don’t. They’ll all sell, just like the gazillions of RVs and everything else that millions are snatching up right now. And there’s no end in sight.

    -5
    #84 41 days ago

    Look at Les Zeppelin LE and then Godzilla LE and tell me there’s not $1300 more value there.

    #85 41 days ago

    As long as people keeping buy the price is going to go up and up. And that's that.

    At the end of the day, people are buying.

    #86 41 days ago
    Quoted from NashtyFunk:

    Look at Les Zeppelin LE and then Godzilla LE and tell me there’s not $1300 more value there.

    Perhaps if LZ were the only other Stern to compare it to. That's not the case.

    #87 41 days ago

    I'm with ya. It's no longer a question about fun, all modern Stern's are fun, but rather value for customers hard earned money. With each price increase the value of a game is diminished in my opinion. This recent Stern price increase is the largest in years and will lead to more people being priced out of the market and or simply refusing to pay the new prices. Could I afford a $9k premium? Yes. Do I want to spend $9k on a premium? Hell no, it's not worth it no matter how fun the game is. Same goes for pro's and LE's.

    #88 41 days ago
    Quoted from Gameseum:

    As long as people keeping buy the price is going to go up and up. And that's that.
    At the end of the day, people are buying.

    You ain’t shitting .My above ground pool liner tore and the few that had them wanted 1100 for a previous 250 liner .I patched it with a patch on the patch .Do what you need to do shit is fing weird right now .With pinball the smart thing to do would be sell every pin you have and wait it out but would any of us really do this ?

    -4
    #89 41 days ago

    I just wish they were more consistent. Led Zeppelin pro should have never left the factory, what an empty piece of junk. Anybody who bought that for $6000 should feel scammed.

    Meanwhile you got great games like Jurassic Park and Avengers, clearly with tons of more parts and clearly with a much higher build cost, at the same price point. And don't even get me started on Beatles!

    Stern is so hit and miss with not only the quality of their games but with how many parts on the playfield... surely the BOM (Bill Of Materials) is much different... yet... The Price Remains The Same!

    #90 41 days ago

    I imagine when big companies have supply chain issues the assembly line workers are possibly laid off. During this lay off they may find other work. New people have to be trained in on the line which takes more time and more money. Stern has so many pieces (of games)Brackets,lcds, legs etc etc. that are made by others and all of these companies have similar issues either on a larger or smaller scale. Stern may have to raise prices.

    #91 41 days ago
    Quoted from NashtyFunk:

    Look at Les Zeppelin LE and then Godzilla LE and tell me there’s not $1300 more value there.

    Neither are worth $9200 or $10,500 to begin with, that's the problem. Also, Stern for most part prices all of their games the same regardless of the amount of features, and code. It's also important for us to keep in my mind that some licenses, especially music licenses where multiple tracks are involved, can cost more then others. I wouldn't be surprised if the LZ license + tracks is more then a bunch of classic Godzilla films.

    #92 41 days ago
    Quoted from DadofTwins:

    I saw the new price points and about $hit my pants! First thought that popped into my head? I can play a ton of location games for that money, at my leisure, and have no maintenance costs nor deal with factory playfield problems.

    I do go and play games on location but that being said I really enjoy playing in the comfort of my own house. I can pour a beer, have the volume as loud as I want and play in my underwear lol

    #93 41 days ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Build dates of 1/1/2022 and on have the new price.

    Damn, business must be REALLY good if they are building games on 1/1/22 on a Saturday at that. Hopefully they at least get a long weekend.

    #94 41 days ago

    Another aspect of this I never liked was the across the board hike, so because Godzilla shows up with a huge increase, Deadpool also increases the same amount. How much was do going for at the launch?

    #95 41 days ago
    Quoted from Enron64:

    I do go and play games on location but that being said I really enjoy playing in the comfort of my own house. I can pour a beer, have the volume as loud as I want and play in my underwear lol

    And you can hear the game sounds...

    #96 41 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    And you can hear the game sounds...

    Nothing like playing at home ,but I do enjoy bringing my boys to locations to play a variety of pins .It does suck that it’s so bright and the volume is turned way low .I just can’t get the full effects this way but can get a basic feel for them .My 13 year old wants a Taxi and my 12 year old wants a Avatar .Go figure

    #97 41 days ago

    At these price levels I'll wait for a used machine 3 to 6 months from now. I think there'll be plenty on the secondary market. The head scratcher part is the Pro's got a bump in price but they removed all the mechs!? It's akin to MET Pro not having Sparky or the Snake head.

    #98 41 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    Looks like I'm going to write off buying sterns - with the new price hike - I just cancelled my deadpool order - It's to a point where they crossed the line. Bummer because they have some titles I still wanted to get. Someone has to start saying no - Looks like I'll be one of them.

    People have been saying this since Sterns crossed $5k. For every one of you, tons more jump in to the hobby and buy.

    10
    #99 41 days ago

    The price of EVERYTHING that is scarce, hard to duplicate, and involves labor or materials has gone up significantly due to inflation. In 2019 an LE was $9,000. Now it’s $10,500. That is a small 15% increase.

    Now let me ask you all a question. How much has your home increased in value since 2019? 20%??? 30%???

    How about your stock portfolio? How much has it increased since 2019? 50%?? 75%??

    Pinball pricing is currently below other assets.

    The US dollar is no longer worth what it was just two short years ago. Everyone reading this has seen their house and stocks and any other assets they own increase in value due to inflation.

    Inflation will be the biggest problem in the US over the coming years. This is simply par for the course right now.

    #100 41 days ago
    Quoted from Kkoss24:

    You ain’t shitting .My above ground pool liner tore and the few that had them wanted 1100 for a previous 250 liner .I patched it with a patch on the patch .Do what you need to do shit is fing weird right now .With pinball the smart thing to do would be sell every pin you have and wait it out but would any of us really do this ?

    That's an interesting take as "getting out while it's good" doesn't even cross my mind anymore because the pinball market is so secure. I kind of even forget about such a thing. Then again, I'm at no risk for it... I paid reasonably for everything and have a lot to gain and little to lose. I think we as collectors are all looking forward to the bubble bursting, rather than fearing it, but I've never thought of it that way and I'm sure there's lots who think about that sort of thing and do worry about it bursting because of what they paid for what they are sitting on. I don't really care if it does, but I bet the guys who paid full 2015-2021 price for a TZ or Addams do. Maybe it's because I don't really consider pinball an investment.

    I see it a different way:

    While you're selling to ensure you get good prices before the market crashes, I'm holding onto everything I got because I forsee this going on for a long time. Now, that sounds like it's an investment perspective, and it sure could be, BUT for me it's just from a supply perspective.

    I'm not holding on to cash the damn things out at some peak and try and squeeze every last dollar out of them, I'm just holding on to keep them.

    My concern lies more with "If I want to buy this title again in 2 years, will it be twice the price?", rather than cashing out while it's hot. I'm more worried about availability and sanity of prices than the cash. I don't sell anything because of how absurd it'll probably be to get another one back again next year or even next month, if I feel so inclined.

    Meanwhile I'm sure there's guys that are selling while the market is hot, and those places their bets oppositely and holding onto games hoping it'll skyrocket more... some see an end and some see a beginning.

    Me, I'm just trying to operate the damn things... I don't care what they're worth besides what I paid for them (waaaaaaaaay out of the ballpark of that now over the years) and I don't think I've ever sat around and counted the dollar value of my collection (albeit it's one hell of a safety net having $100k+ of pinball and arcade games sitting around, with great insurance to boot to sleep good at night on). Anything I buy I intend to keep and make a living off of. I don't consider them an investment like that. Many see them as dollar signs (in both positive and negative ways - investments and liabilities), and I imagine that's quite hectic.

    The "burst" is so far off IMO that I don't think most even worry about the market crashing, they're more worried about it NOT crashing. Kind of funny and opposite from everything else in the world.

    I'm glad I'm not a pinball "investor" collector... I couldn't imagine the stress of sitting on games and wondering if you should keep or sell. Nowadays it's a gamble of selling too early and the game triples in price in the next year, vs. selling too late and the bubble burst. What a conundrum!

    I say just buy a DMD game for $2500, expect to get $2500 out of it and anything extra is a bonus, and call it a day. Too many people worried about getting $9000 for a game they paid $1500 for and acting like it's the end of the world if they don't get it... hey, you only paid $1500 for the thing... that's all you're in the red for... I say as long as you got what you paid for it, why complain? (It's greed)

    Thanks for the nice discussion and your point is a very interesting one.

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