Paradise, NV
Quoted from beltking:Gary said he lived in an apartment. Maybe owned a huge apt or condo? Think he would have a nice place.
Here's the place: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Towers
(Topic ID: 300400)
Quoted from CrazyLevi:The guitar forums are nowhere near this batshit crazy about money and there are guitars that go for millions of dollars.
And the pinball hobby has about a $500 “entry point” if you want to be particular.
This is a thread about NIB games and Stern's price increase. You can't get a NIB game for $500.
I'm no guitar expert, but I'm pretty sure there aren't new guitars that are selling for millions of dollars. So you're comparing apples to Volkswagons.
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:This is a thread about NIB games and Stern's price increase. You can't get a NIB game for $500.
I'm no guitar expert, but I'm pretty sure there aren't new guitars that are selling for millions of dollars. So you're comparing apples to Volkswagons.
I'm a guitar player and I was curious. There are 3 guitars that went for over a million. The most expensive was a Stratocaster signed by a bunch of legendary guitarists. That hit $2.7M, but obviously it was mostly for the signatures. The second was Jimi Hendrix woodstock guitar for $2M.
The most expensive pinball: William Wiley pinball machine, $125,000.
Sydney
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:This is a thread about NIB games and Stern's price increase. You can't get a NIB game for $500.
I'm no guitar expert, but I'm pretty sure there aren't new guitars that are selling for millions of dollars. So you're comparing apples to Volkswagons.
No, this thread is about crybabies with too much money hurling invective at a company (which doesn't have feelings) because pinball machines cost money.
I've pointed out that to me pinball people seem unreasonably obsessed about money, all they want to talk about is prices and money and little else, and now you want to argue about guitars.
It seems like pinball people take this all way too seriously and personally and I don't understand it. This thread is bizarre. If you are getting your feelings hurt by pinball prices, or find yourself getting lathered into a boiling rage once a year when pinball prices go up, you should either find a new hobby or try to get some perspective.
If you are buying NIB games, it seems odd to be this obsessed and angry about prices, as you obviously have more money than about 90 percent of the people on the planet.
I mean, "F U STERN?" For 17 pages?
Seriously? Are we all in 6th grade?
I don’t see nonsense like this on the guitar forums. People complain but it’s never at such a visceral, juvenile level.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I mean, "F U STERN?" For 17 pages?
Seriously? Are we all in 6th grade?
Well to be fair, it wouldn't be 17 pages if people wouldn't feel compelled to play point-counterpoint on every.single.post. and repeat what they've already said a dozen times already. 
Quoted from beltking:I get the prices. I sell belts and buckles have gone up 40% in a year. USPS and fedex about to raise their rates 75 cents in a few weeks after just raising them. That adds a lot to my costs. Things are expensive. Have to give people bonuses a d higher wages to keep them happy.
For me I say raise them a fraction more and include better parts that don’t fail and put hd glass on premiums instead. At least give option to upgrade to hd because you can get it shipped in. Better coil stops and important stuff.
Ricks Ranchwear?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:No, this thread is about crybabies with too much money hurling invective at a company (which doesn't have feelings) because pinball machines cost money.
Damn, My mistake. I could have swore that the thread was started because of a price increase from Stern for their NIB machines. 
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I've pointed out that to me pinball people seem unreasonably obsessed about money, all they want to talk about is prices and money and little else, and now you want to argue about guitars.
What? You're the one that brought Guitar prices into a pinball thread.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:It seems like pinball people take this all way too seriously and personally and I don't understand it. This thread is bizarre. If you are getting your feelings hurt by pinball prices, or find yourself getting lathered into a boiling rage once a year when pinball prices go up, you should either find a new hobby or try to get some perspective.
And here you are arguing the opposite for 17 pages when you could have easily read the thread title and kept scrolling. But if you're not on the other side of the fence then you're not happy, so I completely understand why you're hanging out in this thread.
Quoted from pinballcorpse:Well to be fair, it wouldn't be 17 pages if people wouldn't feel compelled to play point-counterpoint on every.single.post. and repeat what they've already said a dozen times already.
I'm going to have to disagree with your statement and offer a counterpoint.
Lol just joking.
If the government doesn't stop this blow out spending, wait till you see what the inflation will really start to look like.
Edit: I see by the up/down votes on this post that it's more proof that economics need to be taught in schools.
Quoted from pinballcorpse:Well to be fair, it wouldn't be 17 pages if people wouldn't feel compelled to play point-counterpoint on every.single.post. and repeat what they've already said a dozen times already.
Have I mentioned I want that Dio couch?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:No, this thread is about crybabies with too much money hurling invective at a company (which doesn't have feelings) because pinball machines cost money.
I've pointed out that to me pinball people seem unreasonably obsessed about money, all they want to talk about is prices and money and little else, and now you want to argue about guitars.
It seems like pinball people take this all way too seriously and personally and I don't understand it. This thread is bizarre. If you are getting your feelings hurt by pinball prices, or find yourself getting lathered into a boiling rage once a year when pinball prices go up, you should either find a new hobby or try to get some perspective.
If you are buying NIB games, it seems odd to be this obsessed and angry about prices, as you obviously have more money than about 90 percent of the people on the planet.
I mean, "F U STERN?" For 17 pages?
Seriously? Are we all in 6th grade?
I don’t see nonsense like this on the guitar forums. People complain but it’s never at such a visceral, juvenile level.
Stop making guitarguments. 
Quoted from Palmer:Stop making guitarguments.
A1028D2B-C27C-455D-8944-AF5A4886A952.gifQuoted from CrazyLevi:No, this thread is about crybabies with too much money...
I thought the exact opposite, it was those with not enough money
The ones with too much money don't give a shit
This is becoming my favorite thread on pinside. I love posts from people with 20 machines complaining that they can't buy any more - it's great entertainment and a welcome distraction from other crap.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:I thought the exact opposite, it was those with not enough money
The ones with too much money don't give a shit
“I can afford a $5500 pinball machine but I can’t afford a $6500 pinball machine” doesn’t sound like the rhapsody of someone with money problems.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:“I can afford a $5500 pinball machine but I can’t afford a $6500 pinball machine” doesn’t sound like the call of someone with money problems.
Those are people with not enough money - people with too much money just buy what they want regardless of price
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:I thought the exact opposite, it was those with not enough money
The ones with too much money don't give a shit
Wrong on both accounts - I started this thread because I had 3 new sterns preordered (pros) - when I found out that it would be $800 increase each - $2400 total I said F-that and cancelled. I did this because I don't think a pro is worth 8K when you play Russian roulette with pf quality, etc. I have the money, but I didn't get this way by saying what the hell its only another 2400...
I will still be cruising the used market incase a decent opportunity comes up.
Quoted from WeirPinball:Wrong on both accounts - I started this thread because I had 3 new sterns preordered (pros) - when I found out that it would be $800 increase each - $2400 total I said F-that and cancelled. I did this because I don't think a pro is worth 8K when you play Russian roulette with pf quality, etc. I have the money, but I didn't get this way by saying what the hell its only another 2400...
But if you literally had too much money, you would not of cared 
Maybe you have the right amount of money, hence your concern
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:But if you literally had too much money, you would not of cared
Now that is true- can't argue there
Quoted from pinballcorpse:Well to be fair, it wouldn't be 17 pages if people wouldn't feel compelled to play point-counterpoint on every.single.post. and repeat what they've already said a dozen times already.
If anything this hobby has shown that this thread can go on forever with that formula. I mean theres already a thread proving it with the same 12 guys doing that right now and its up to 519 pages.
Yeah, but why does "F U STERN!" have 17 pages and "Stern's price increases may push me out of the hobby" only have 7, when they are identical, expressing the exact same misplaced privileged rage and hashing out all the exact same points?
F U sells!
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Yeah, but why does "F U STERN!" have 17 pages and "Stern's price increases may push me out of the hobby" only have 7, when they are identical, expressing the exact same misplaced privileged rage and hashing out all the exact same points?
F U sells!
who really F'n cares why?
Drain it an move on with your life if it bothers you that much
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:who really F'n cares why?
Drain it an move on with your life if it bothers you that much
The most pointless of all posts. Could say that to any of the 500 people in this thread about anything.
I mean it's silly circular firing squad logic. If my F'n posts bother you so f'n much, who f'n cares? Just ignore my posts and move on with your life if they bother you that much
Quoted from CrazyLevi:The most pointless of all posts. Could say that to any of the 500 people in this thread about anything.
I mean it's silly circular firing squad logic. If my F'n posts bother you so f'n much, who f'n cares? Just ignore my posts and move on with your life if they bother you that much
I enjoy your posts, they don't bother me at all.
Like I said, I enjoy this entire thread immensely - it's fantastic entertainment - hope we hit 50 pages of pointless posts
You are the one that seems irritated by it, so I was suggesting you drain it.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:If the government doesn't stop this blow out spending, wait till you see what the inflation will really start to look like.
Edit: I see by the up/down votes on this post that it's more proof that economics need to be taught in schools.
Will be a lot worse than the toilet paper crisis last year.
Quoted from FalconDriver:Will be a lot worse than the toilet paper crisis last year.
Inflation is so bad I'm already using $20 bills as toilet paper around here.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Inflation is so bad I'm already using $20 bills as toilet paper around here.
You rich bastard! Get out of here.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Inflation is so bad I'm already using $20 bills as toilet paper around here.
That seems like a $2020 problem. You realize they have since restocked the tp right?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Inflation is so bad I'm already using $20 bills as toilet paper around here.
You don't find they scratchy on your anus?
I prefer my softer well worn $100's when I can't be bothered to reach for the TP
Quoted from seenev:I heard that AOC was wearing a dress that said "Tax the NIB buyers."
Bhahaha. Good one man.
And stern sucks. One year wait on a promised Jurassic Park replacement playfield. Ghosted. Never buying another Stern.
This entire thread is amusing although a bit tedious. No one likes price increases and unless it's a requirement to survive, Food, shelter, clothing, energy. You either elect to buy the product that had the increase or not buy the product. If the increase is too much and demand dries up the seller has the option of either reducing prices to improve demand or adding additional value in an attempt to restore demand. Clearly Stern has a solid business model and they are tweaking it and attempting to improve profitability. Their price increase was most likely driven to a combination of real increases in material costs, labor, freight, taxes and general business operating costs along with a realization that demand was far outstripping their ability to produce product. Why not increase the price and make more per unit and if demand falls a bit so be it, you weren't able to produce enough to meet the demand anyway. Might as well make more on what you produce. So from a purely business sense, without an emotion attached to the decision, it makes perfect business sense. As a few people pointed out these are discretionary higher end luxury items. No one needs a pinball to survive. (Yes, I know there are a few exceptions to that rule on this forum)
Stern insider connect is a great idea. A gateway to allow for various levels of subscription services ensuring a continuous revenue stream without additional investment is a hard product. I have built and ultimately sold two rather large service based companies. The best thing about the business model was it is more easily scalable and while you have development costs for software and personal costs for providing the necessary customer service you do NOT have inventory that ages and/or not sell. The insider connect is an evolution of the pinball business. Frankly a brilliant long term move for Stern. How or if it works well or at all is yet to be determined, but it is intriguing. People often complain that they don't do code updates or refine the game code much after its final release. The economic incentive to do so is practically zero. People have bought and paid for the machine and it runs, barring an egregious problem impacting functionality, there is little incentive for Stern to keep programmers working on code. However, if doing code/game enhancements generates revenue on a consistent basis it makes business/economic sense to invest in that providing you get a return on that investment. It won't do much for the older pins that don't have insider connect installed., but going forward if they offered game enhancements for a nominal fee whether it be one time or a monthly subscription the market may well determine it is worth paying for.
Sorry for the long winded business lecture, but after reading through essentially this entire thread, I felt compelled to try and summarize the realities of the situation. At the moment we are still a quasi-free country and you are free to say things like F-Stern as well as to never buy another Stern Pinball machine or any other for that matter.
i am on a 36 month waiting list for a new rolex and i was told i would be bumped to at least 48 months. you guys think you have problems in the stern club, heck, you, should see the rolex club. try competing with billionaires
Quoted from robotron:i am on a 36 month waiting list for a new rolex and i was told i would be bumped to at least 48 months. you guys think you have problems in the stern club, heck, you, should see the rolex club. try competing with billionaires
there's a perfect example of an archaic item that is only used for status lol. Everything under the sun tells you the time these days...and the sun too.
For me, and I assume a lot of others in the hobby, this thread is both entertaining and disconcerting. For those of us who couldn't dream of owning a NIB "back then" or now, we are scraping the used market for older titles....which are getting more and more difficult to find and more expensive when you do. My brother was shocked when he found what I paid for my last project game. If you want to be in the hobby, it's getting more difficult every year for those in the bottom rung of the ladder. Not impossible, but difficult.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:No, this thread is about crybabies with too much money hurling invective at a company (which doesn't have feelings) because pinball machines cost money.
I've pointed out that to me pinball people seem unreasonably obsessed about money, all they want to talk about is prices and money and little else, and now you want to argue about guitars.
It seems like pinball people take this all way too seriously and personally and I don't understand it. This thread is bizarre. If you are getting your feelings hurt by pinball prices, or find yourself getting lathered into a boiling rage once a year when pinball prices go up, you should either find a new hobby or try to get some perspective.
If you are buying NIB games, it seems odd to be this obsessed and angry about prices, as you obviously have more money than about 90 percent of the people on the planet.
I mean, "F U STERN?" For 17 pages?
Seriously? Are we all in 6th grade?
I don’t see nonsense like this on the guitar forums. People complain but it’s never at such a visceral, juvenile level.
F U Levi. 
Quoted from Chambahz:After seeing the Deadflip stream Godzilla release I'm stoked to be in on an LE.
Doesn't mean I'll pay the same amount for any future release if it doesn't look as good.
Agreed. $9000 MSRP for Godzilla premium is fine. $9000 for a Guardians of the Galaxy Premium in 2022 is a hard pill to swallow.
Quoted from MachineGunGuy:Stern insider connect is a great idea. A gateway to allow for various levels of subscription services ensuring a continuous revenue stream without additional investment is a hard product. I have built and ultimately sold two rather large service based companies. The best thing about the business model was it is more easily scalable and while you have development costs for software and personal costs for providing the necessary customer service you do NOT have inventory that ages and/or not sell. The insider connect is an evolution of the pinball business.
Yes, whether or not insider connected will be loved by the community is based on what they do to it. The only issues I have right now is that they are forcing a $300 increase right now to include the feature with no way to reject the cost. Also, depending on what gameplay features they choose to lock behind a fee and how much the fee will be is the big question. I can already guess they will have some battle pass, daily and weekly quests, online battles, special holiday modes, more social media bling for your profile, etc.
Also, they need to provide a cheap initial rollout to operators to be ready for players to try out the system. $300 a game is too high especially if they have the better number of the 17 games that will have insider connected by the end of the year. these kits need to be $100 or less for the average game excluding special cases.
I can understand a 3 or 4 hundred dollar increase. But not this jump
Question. Is Stern trying to decrease orders by this big jump in pricing?
How many games are they backordered?
5 thousand? 9 thousand?
They are in a weird, but precarious place. Do they keep ordering larger allocations of parts to cover the current Demand?
Or make more profit per game, at a smaller order level?
I think they are trying to tamp down orders, since they can't cover current demand.
They also have contracts on upcoming licences that they have to meet, time wise.
Very interesting times......
Hopefully Stern doesn’t do what JJP did to slow down orders and hire Mirco to start making peeling playfields
Quoted from MachineGunGuy:This entire thread is amusing although a bit tedious. No one likes price increases and unless it's a requirement to survive, Food, shelter, clothing, energy. You either elect to buy the product that had the increase or not buy the product. If the increase is too much and demand dries up the seller has the option of either reducing prices to improve demand or adding additional value in an attempt to restore demand. Clearly Stern has a solid business model and they are tweaking it and attempting to improve profitability. Their price increase was most likely driven to a combination of real increases in material costs, labor, freight, taxes and general business operating costs along with a realization that demand was far outstripping their ability to produce product. Why not increase the price and make more per unit and if demand falls a bit so be it, you weren't able to produce enough to meet the demand anyway. Might as well make more on what you produce. So from a purely business sense, without an emotion attached to the decision, it makes perfect business sense. As a few people pointed out these are discretionary higher end luxury items. No one needs a pinball to survive. (Yes, I know there are a few exceptions to that rule on this forum)
Stern insider connect is a great idea. A gateway to allow for various levels of subscription services ensuring a continuous revenue stream without additional investment is a hard product. I have built and ultimately sold two rather large service based companies. The best thing about the business model was it is more easily scalable and while you have development costs for software and personal costs for providing the necessary customer service you do NOT have inventory that ages and/or not sell. The insider connect is an evolution of the pinball business. Frankly a brilliant long term move for Stern. How or if it works well or at all is yet to be determined, but it is intriguing. People often complain that they don't do code updates or refine the game code much after its final release. The economic incentive to do so is practically zero. People have bought and paid for the machine and it runs, barring an egregious problem impacting functionality, there is little incentive for Stern to keep programmers working on code. However, if doing code/game enhancements generates revenue on a consistent basis it makes business/economic sense to invest in that providing you get a return on that investment. It won't do much for the older pins that don't have insider connect installed., but going forward if they offered game enhancements for a nominal fee whether it be one time or a monthly subscription the market may well determine it is worth paying for.
Sorry for the long winded business lecture, but after reading through essentially this entire thread, I felt compelled to try and summarize the realities of the situation. At the moment we are still a quasi-free country and you are free to say things like F-Stern as well as to never buy another Stern Pinball machine or any other for that matter.
To be honest, I didn’t read the second line, I seen how long ur post was and I said “ f that “ Sorry
Quoted from gonzo73:I can understand a 3 or 4 hundred dollar increase. But not this jump
Question. Is Stern trying to decrease orders by this big jump in pricing?
How many games are they backordered?
5 thousand? 9 thousand?
They have an obligation to put out new games with license holders and possibly their board. As far as backorders that has to do with factories backordered on parts; they do not mass produce mechanisms. The price jump makes sense due to the increase in BoM due to massive demand in factories on top of the container shortage which started in Q1 on top of the limit amount of freighters. On top of that labor shortages caused them to have to increase wages. Also as demand increases it makes sense that their price increases because they can.
Quoted from gonzo73:I can understand a 3 or 4 hundred dollar increase. But not this jump
Question. Is Stern trying to decrease orders by this big jump in pricing?
How many games are they backordered?
5 thousand? 9 thousand?
They are in a weird, but precarious place. Do they keep ordering larger allocations of parts to cover the current Demand?
Or make more profit per game, at a smaller order level?
I think they are trying to tamp down orders, since they can't cover current demand.
They also have contracts on upcoming licences that they have to meet, time wise.
Very interesting times......
Look at the price of plywood.
Cabinet is made out of plywood...playfield is made out of plywood.
I'm shocked there wasn't a price increase back in April.
Besides this price increase now there is Stern Connected. No one really knows what this means. There has been mention of paying for this service (subscription based) to get code updates/access to additional modes/rules etc. Stern has updated code on machines after release but it’s at their schedule/discretion to do so. For most games it has taken 2-3 years to get pretty much completed code. You are telling me they are capable of offering this on a timely subscription based service??? Wait till people start bitching about paying for months of this service and no additional content. Will be interesting to see how it really works and what you get with it but I have my doubts.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:Look at the price of plywood.
Cabinet is made out of plywood...playfield is made out of plywood.
I'm shocked there wasn't a price increase back in April.
I was surprised I didn't pay more for my LZLE. But then I realized they just removed everything from the playfield to pay for the plywood. 
Quoted from beelzeboob:I was surprised I didn't pay more for my LZLE. But then I realized they just removed everything from the playfield to pay for the plywood.
And the game's designer!
Quoted from PanzerFreak:[quoted image]
Other raw materials went up too.
I've increased my prices by 25% since January.
Quoted from Vino:It’s pinball after all.
still want value for their dollar.
THIS. The value is not there for me anymore. I am all location play moving forward for a while.
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