(Topic ID: 300400)

F You Stern and your price increases

By WeirPinball

78 days ago


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    There are 1,300 posts in this topic. You are on page 13 of 26.
    #601 76 days ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    You can’t play the BOM. Stern’s pins are just more fun to play IMO. Who gives a shit how the lockbar and head are secured? And I used to think wooden heads were better than metal, but now I don’t care. It sounds like you guys are upset that Stern is better at being profitable than JJP.

    Umm, you actually do play the BOM, that’s the point.

    #602 76 days ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    You can’t play the BOM. Stern’s pins are just more fun to play IMO. Who gives a shit how the lockbar and head are secured? And I used to think wooden heads were better than metal, but now I don’t care. It sounds like you guys are upset that Stern is better at being profitable than JJP.

    That's an opinion, not a fact. I have Sterns that I enjoy playing more then some JJP's and JJP's I enjoy playing more then Sterns. Happy to have both in my collection. Just tired of the "All JJP's suck", "None of them are fun" type comments.

    #603 76 days ago
    Quoted from Gameseum:

    The fact that it took 7 years after 2010 is laughable.

    You also have to account for content that goes on that screen. Most people will default to "Use movie clips" but then you need to license all that material which costs money. If doing animation, you need to pay someone to do that as well as design everything else for the screen which also costs money. The pivot to LCD screens wasn't because screens got cheaper. I mean it helps but the content that goes on the screen costs waaaaay more than the screen itself.

    Quoted from Gameseum:

    Such a shame because I feel like Ghostbusters would have been a home run with an LCD. Now I can't even play the dang thing, having gotten a taste of pinball with LCDs.

    I guess if you like to stare at the screen when you are playing. Most people look down at the playfield. Maybe I am in the minority here?

    #604 76 days ago

    After looking at your collection - Im curious which Stern you enjoy playing over the JJPs you have?

    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    That's an opinion, not a fact. I have Sterns that I enjoy playing more then some JJP's and JJP's I enjoy playing more then Sterns. Happy to have both in my collection. Just tired of the "All JJP's suck", "None of them are fun" type comments.

    #605 76 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Gary's reaction seeing people defend the price increases.
    [quoted image]

    So you honestly think that the cost of building a machine hasn't gone up in equal percentage to the price increase(s) that has been passed along? Seriously? Look around you. This is not some conspiracy theory. This is a once in a lifetime worldwide disaster we have been in for 18+ months now. Certain sectors have been affected more than others. Manufacturing (especially in the US) is had been really hit hard. Costs are way up and parts availability is way down. Personally, I would bet Stern's profit margin per machine is less now than it was two years ago. Not to mention if the number of machines being shipped is way down because of shutdowns and parts shortages, overall profits will be way down too.

    #606 76 days ago
    Quoted from John_I:

    So you honestly think that the cost of building a machine hasn't gone up in equal percentage to the price increase(s) that has been passed along? Seriously? Look around you. This is not some conspiracy theory. This is a once in a lifetime worldwide disaster we have been in for 18+ months now. Certain sectors have been affected more than others. Manufacturing (especially in the US) is had been really hit hard. Costs are way up and parts availability is way down. Personally, I would bet Stern's profit margin per machine is less now than it was two years ago. Not to mention if the number of machines being shipped is way down because of shutdowns and parts shortages, overall profits will be way down too.

    No, it hasn’t. Stern should chill on pumping out 3 new titles a year considering they are backed up on everything.

    #607 76 days ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    Umm, you actually do play the BOM, that’s the point.

    Not when the BOM includes all kinds of wiring, transformers, circuit boards, connectors and labor costs that could be eliminated with a better system design.

    #608 76 days ago

    I was in on a Mandalorian LE until the reveal and I passed on it at the former lower price. I'm now paid in full on a Godzilla LE at the new higher price and I didn't hesitate after seeing it. You may or may not find that of interest but I do.

    Also, In 2007 I bought a Black Spiderman NIB for $4500. - Adapt or die I guess.

    #609 75 days ago
    Quoted from Gameseum:

    At the most extreme least possible, by 2009-2010 there are no more excuses and everything was LCD-a-plenty by then. Every house had a widescreen LCD for their computer, a modern flatscreen LCD for their TV, the things were modern, and practically all hardware on Earth had switch to LCDs. Even car stereos switched to LCD around that time or earlier. The fact that it took 7 years after 2010 is laughable.

    What’s laughable is that you don’t understand that tech wasn’t the issue. Stern had 1 or 2 guys doing dot animation. For an LCD you need an animation crew that’s well versed in modern traditional & 3D animation. It costs more & is a different pipeline. To keep on Stern’s schedule, they couldn’t just switch quickly. On top of that, licensors were letting them get away with likenesses & footage on dots that they are sometimes not allowed to do in HD full color.

    Quoted from Gameseum:

    Such a shame because I feel like Ghostbusters would have been a home run with an LCD. Now I can't even play the dang thing, having gotten a taste of pinball with LCDs

    Goatf***ers’ problem isn’t the display. It would still be a horrible box of unfun hell with an LCD.

    #610 75 days ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    You can’t play the BOM. Stern’s pins are just more fun to play IMO. Who gives a shit how the lockbar and head are secured? And I used to think wooden heads were better than metal, but now I don’t care. It sounds like you guys are upset that Stern is better at being profitable than JJP.

    Having both brands and yes some Sterns are really super cool and fun, but the newer ones really have a cheap feel to them, seems so light. You go from a classic like MM or AFM then a JJP then try to play a Stern they are just so light compared to the others, I was thinking maybe some sand bags in them would make them feel more beefy.

    #611 75 days ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    That time period around Kiss is when a bunch of their cabinets were splitting. They are built better now.

    Plus the Stern cab bottoms are plywood now. (Since Munsters maybe?)

    #612 75 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Gary's reaction seeing people defend the price increases.
    [quoted image]

    To be honest you would have to be a stupid business man not to raise prices if your product is constantly sold out and behind on producing them.

    There is a weird business model called supply and demand..I think they teach that in school at some point.

    #613 75 days ago
    Quoted from JohnTTwo:

    Having both brands and yes some Sterns are really super cool and fun, but the newer ones really have a cheap feel to them, seems so light. You go from a classic like MM or AFM then a JJP then try to play a Stern they are just so light compared to the others, I was thinking maybe some sand bags in them would make them feel more beefy.

    I have 2 working pins at the present time, Mando LE and MMR. The Mando LE easily feels substantial, IMO, in comparision to MMR. Over time, who knows? Seems for now though that Mando LE is a well executed design and built like a tank.

    #614 75 days ago
    Quoted from Gameseum:

    operators and collectors both lean towards JJP more

    That's not going to happen, because JJP games seem to hold up like a squashed dog turd on location. They don't take that kind of abuse very well. And I've seen this in 3 separate locations near me. Some Sterns have this issue too, as well... Star Wars LE was definitely one of them.

    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    That's an opinion, not a fact. I have Sterns that I enjoy playing more then some JJP's and JJP's I enjoy playing more then Sterns. Happy to have both in my collection. Just tired of the "All JJP's suck", "None of them are fun" type comments.

    See above. JJPs are *awesome* in home environments. I would like to have WOZ or Dialed In, either in a location that I could trust to keep it fully maintained, or at home so I could do it. Really like both games, but every time I touch one anywhere in public ......they just play like CRAP. Hobbit would be fun as well, but I've played a private-owned Hobbit before and it just is too long of a game for me to ever want to own.

    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Goatf***ers’ problem isn’t the display. It would still be a horrible box of unfun hell with an LCD.

    If we ever end up in a tournament together somewhere, and Ghostbusters is an option, I'm definitely picking it just for you. Especially if it's a Premium or LE.

    #615 75 days ago
    Quoted from kciaccio:

    To be honest you would have to be a stupid business man not to raise prices if your product is constantly sold out and behind on producing them.
    There is a weird business model called supply and demand..I think they teach that in school at some point.

    fck... you are talking about those evil profits businesses chase aren't you...
    They should just be providing us product at the lowest possible profit they can to stay in business.
    damm them all

    #616 75 days ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    Based on that statement, I'm assuming you have a lot of hobbies having a $6,000 entry point?
    We aren't talking about a $10 increase in the price of a tennis racket in this thread.

    The guitar forums are nowhere near this batshit crazy about money and there are guitars that go for millions of dollars.

    And the pinball hobby has about a $500 “entry point” if you want to be particular.

    #617 75 days ago
    Quoted from dsmoke1986:

    No, it hasn’t. Stern should chill on pumping out 3 new titles a year considering they are backed up on everything.

    I am pretty sure Stern is doing well enough that they don't need your advice regarding their business. Games take at least a year or two to develop so it's not like they are going to stop future releases when people continue to buy their games despite the backlog. That is just dumb.

    #618 75 days ago
    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    I have 2 working pins at the present time, Mando LE and MMR. The Mando LE easily feels substantial, IMO, in comparision to MMR. Over time, who knows? Seems for now though that Mando LE is a well executed design and built like a tank.

    I kind of wish they could cut another hundred pounds out of them to save my poor back moving them around!

    Feel is relative to setup. Tighten the leg bolts a little extra and put the game on rubber feet and any game feels like it weighs 1000 pounds.

    #619 75 days ago
    Quoted from gliebig:

    I got a bottle of Pappy 15yr a few years back. Thought about flipping it but wanted to see what the hype was about, so I kept it and drank it. Should have flipped it. It was nothing special. Bourbon tastes like bourbon to me.

    You should have tried just a little of it, glued a barrel mod to the side and tried selling it for more than you purchased it for.

    I love bourbon, by the way, but I can't really tell the difference between them. I typically buy a handle of Jim Beam and a liter of Markers Mark (or something similar).

    #620 75 days ago
    Quoted from Palmer:

    I am pretty sure Stern is doing well enough that they don't need your advice regarding their business. Games take at least a year or two to develop so it's not like they are going to stop future releases when people continue to buy their games despite the backlog. That is just dumb.

    Actually it isn't dumb - they can pump out more of the existing design which is already paid for instead of engineering a bunch of new designs. Nvidia is doing this by firing up the old 2060 cards just to help fill demand.

    And at the new price point - bottom line means more profit.

    #621 75 days ago
    Quoted from djsolzs:

    After looking at your collection - Im curious which Stern you enjoy playing over the JJPs you have?

    Depends on the day for me. Some days I like TMNT and GB over any of my JJP pins and then the opposite another day lol, just enjoy them all. Stern is making some damn fun games, as is JJP, it's just a shame the prices have become so ridiculously high.

    Quoted from John_I:

    So you honestly think that the cost of building a machine hasn't gone up in equal percentage to the price increase(s) that has been passed along? Seriously? Look around you. This is not some conspiracy theory. This is a once in a lifetime worldwide disaster we have been in for 18+ months now. Certain sectors have been affected more than others. Manufacturing (especially in the US) is had been really hit hard. Costs are way up and parts availability is way down. Personally, I would bet Stern's profit margin per machine is less now than it was two years ago. Not to mention if the number of machines being shipped is way down because of shutdowns and parts shortages, overall profits will be way down too.

    Fair points, those are likely contributors as well. Stern is also implementing the new Insider Connect system which adds an additional cost in hardware, development, and support.

    I'll probably buy another new Stern but its going to be very selective from this point going forward. Hoping BTTF is next as will definitely order one of those.

    11
    #622 75 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    That's an opinion, not a fact. I have Sterns that I enjoy playing more then some JJP's and JJP's I enjoy playing more then Sterns. Happy to have both in my collection. Just tired of the "All JJP's suck", "None of them are fun" type comments.

    The “IMO” in my post stands for “In My Opinion”. Welcome to the internet, are you new here?

    #623 75 days ago

    Am I the only one who just comes here to read the fan-boy fights? I love it.

    ...and Goatfu**ers is a fun game!

    #624 75 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:Regardless of whether or not people think Stern is better then JJP or vice versa it's clear which company has the greater cost per game and it's JJP. A Stern LE and JJP LE are now basically the same price. The JJP LE comes with significantly more hardware in it from the old Bally / Williams style lock down bar mech, the traditional head lock, and especially far more hardware in the head of the cabinet compared to a Stern.

    U just can't stop proving my point and reciting the same drivel. Thanks for that. I hope u now know why its easy to single u out and destroy ur ridiculous comments. I also hope u don't stop making them cause I love it. JJP fanboys complete me. U can't stand it can ya. With all of JJP pretentious pinball crap they keep for the most part missing out on the most important factor.

    #625 75 days ago
    Quoted from NPO:

    You do realize what I meant by this comment is it is an employee's market right now, right? Some people are realizing they don't have to put up with low wages and have options.

    So if you understand this: wages going up, costs going up, why are you always complaining about the resulting price increases?

    10
    #626 75 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Regardless of whether or not people think Stern is better then JJP or vice versa it's clear which company has the greater cost per game and it's JJP.

    lol someone go bump the turntable, record's stuck again...

    #627 75 days ago
    Quoted from Palmer:

    You also have to account for content that goes on that screen. Most people will default to "Use movie clips" but then you need to license all that material which costs money. If doing animation, you need to pay someone to do that as well as design everything else for the screen which also costs money. The pivot to LCD screens wasn't because screens got cheaper. I mean it helps but the content that goes on the screen costs waaaaay more than the screen itself.

    I guess if you like to stare at the screen when you are playing. Most people look down at the playfield. Maybe I am in the minority here?

    If there’s a design system in place doesn’t require an excessive amount of time to create animations it’s not at the caliber of a MCU special effects scene. Most of the assets are ready to animate in after effects or character animator.

    #628 75 days ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    lol someone go bump the turntable, record's stuck again...

    What's a record?

    #629 75 days ago

    Don't you bullshit me beelz, I know you're old enough to remember them

    #630 75 days ago
    Quoted from dsmoke1986:It’s not an “employees market”. Stimulus money has caused a lot of the labor issues. How do you expect people to be motivated to go to work when they are making more sitting home in their couch.
    It’s Time for everyone to get back to work.
    Problem is that This inflation isn’t transitory like Powell would want(hope) to believe, the extra stimulus money has caused this inflation and its here to stay.
    Hope you enjoy paying 9k for your Stern Premiums.

    Shaming the grunts while encouraging raping both the employees and the consumers. Classic! Maybe, as has been shown repeatedly in the states that ended it early, it isn't the stimulus, but the pandemic waking people up to the fact that their lower wage end employers don't give 2 shits about them, and finding other ways to make money...which indeed has been proven, repeatedly. While others simply refuse to play the game. Yes, you will always have abusers, just like you have CEO's etc, with tons of loopholes that allow them to not pay taxes, or simply don't pay them, and then use attourneys to get out of jail time. You know, America!

    #631 75 days ago
    Quoted from JohnTTwo:

    You go from a classic like MM or AFM then a JJP then try to play a Stern they are just so light compared to the others, I was thinking maybe some sand bags in them would make them feel more beefy.

    I recently fried a transformer in my MET when I f’ed up installing an LED tube. I guess I should have kept it and bolted it into my LZ for the “heavier is better” crew.

    #632 75 days ago
    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    I have 2 working pins at the present time, Mando LE and MMR. The Mando LE easily feels substantial, IMO, in comparision to MMR. Over time, who knows? Seems for now though that Mando LE is a well executed design and built like a tank.

    I will agree that all the CGC games I've played feel...more fragile...than others, but that being said, my MBr has been flawless.

    #633 75 days ago

    Went to McDonald’s yesterday (bad choice I know) Big Mac value combo = $9.80. I remember paying around $7.00 ish a few years back. It’s all relative - life has just gotten more expensive.

    #634 75 days ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    U just can't stop proving my point and reciting the same drivel. Thanks for that. I hope u now know why its easy to single u out and destroy ur ridiculous comments. I also hope u don't stop making them cause I love it. JJP fanboys complete me. U can't stand it can ya. With all of JJP pretentious pinball crap they keep for the most part missing out on the most important factor.

    Keep being angry and only favoring one pinball company, I'll be enjoying my Stern and JJP pins in the meantime

    #635 75 days ago
    Quoted from acedanger:

    If there’s a design system in place doesn’t require an excessive amount of time to create animations it’s not at the caliber of a MCU special effects scene. Most of the assets are ready to animate in after effects or character animator.

    So because it isn't the level of MCU special effects it doesn't take any time at all? What exactly do you mean ready to animate in after effects?

    #636 75 days ago

    *edit* never mind, I'm not entirely sure what's being referred to.

    #637 75 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    Actually it isn't dumb - they can pump out more of the existing design which is already paid for instead of engineering a bunch of new designs. Nvidia is doing this by firing up the old 2060 cards just to help fill demand.
    And at the new price point - bottom line means more profit.

    Is this a graphic cardgument now? Why are you comparing two completely different consumer goods. Does anyone use pinball machines to mine cryptocurrency?

    #638 75 days ago
    Quoted from Zablon:

    I will agree that all the CGC games I've played feel...more fragile...than others, but that being said, my MBr has been flawless.

    Working on modding this for a friend this week

    DSCN1454 (resized).JPG
    #639 75 days ago
    Quoted from Palmer:

    Is this a graphic cardgument now? Why are you comparing two completely different consumer goods. Does anyone use pinball machines to mine cryptocurrency?

    If you read the entire post I was talking about making older models not comparing two industies

    #640 75 days ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    3D model is rigged for animation with "bones" that can be moved around, most likely.

    After Effects is not a 3D animation program...well technically it can do 3D but not really what most animators use for 3D. That isn't the point though. He talks as if the majority of the heavy lifting is done. Also glosses over graphic design and UI. All of these things take time. Just because it is an LCD screen doesn't make content easier to make for it.

    #641 75 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    If you read the entire post I was talking about making older models not comparing two industies

    I did read it. You did make a comparison. Apples and oranges.

    #642 75 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    If you read the entire post I was talking about making older models not comparing two industies

    Good idea, But it isn't as easy as you think.
    Bringing back Tron takes some doing because they don't have the old system parts anymore. You would have to adapt it to the new electronics in the market now.

    Still easier than a new pin design but it isn't just dusting off the old blue prints and ramp up a production line in a week.

    #643 75 days ago
    Quoted from JohnTTwo:

    I am into racing and riding dirt bikes. I get it man. Try out a dirt bike. Seems like me and everyone else on a Sea Doo is always looking to jump it. So just get a machine made to jump. I am almost 60 still doing 90 footers.

    Gonna need to see a pic of said 90 footer for proof. I used to huck ATV's a lot and I was pretty darn good at it. 90 foot is a big jump even on a dirt bike.

    Also check out the yamaha wave blaster if you want a dirt bike experience on water

    #644 75 days ago
    Quoted from kciaccio:

    Good idea, But it isn't as easy as you think.
    Bringing back Tron takes some doing because they don't have the old system parts anymore. You would have to adapt it to the new electronics in the market now.
    Still easier than a new pin design but it isn't just dusting off the old blue prints and ramp up a production line in a week.

    Agreed - but I was really talking about their current "in production" vs trying to crank out a ton of new designs. I guess they have to watch that they don't fall behind either.

    #645 75 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    Agreed - but I was really talking about their current "in production" vs trying to crank out a ton of new designs. I guess they have to watch that they don't fall behind either.

    Yea I figured you meant in production. It does suck for buyers that have to pay a price increase after they committed to buying a game at the lower price. I didn't expect Stern to honor those prices but I think a lot of people are legitimately pissed off because not only are they now waiting longer for a game, but that game costs significantly more.

    #646 75 days ago
    Quoted from Palmer:

    So because it isn't the level of MCU special effects it doesn't take any time at all? What exactly do you mean ready to animate in after effects?

    Dude I have over 20 years experience with animation & creating vector raster artwork I’m no graphic artist more of a designer. That being said in my opinion their animations are relatively simple it does require time; but if your lens was as sharp as mine you would clearly see it doesn’t require a tremendous amount of man hours.

    #647 75 days ago
    Quoted from Palmer:

    After Effects is not a 3D animation program...well technically it can do 3D but not really what most animators use for 3D. That isn't the point though. He talks as if the majority of the heavy lifting is done. Also glosses over graphic design and UI. All of these things take time. Just because it is an LCD screen doesn't make content easier to make for it.

    Yeah see this is exactly why I'd deleted that post.

    #648 75 days ago
    Quoted from John-Floyd:

    Went to McDonald’s yesterday (bad choice I know) Big Mac value combo = $9.80. I remember paying around $7.00 ish a few years back. It’s all relative - life has just gotten more expensive.

    Much smaller beef patties to boot. Or whatever they make them out of.

    #649 75 days ago
    Quoted from Palmer:

    Yea I figured you meant in production. It does suck for buyers that have to pay a price increase after they committed to buying a game at the lower price. I didn't expect Stern to honor those prices but I think a lot of people are legitimately pissed off because not only are they now waiting longer for a game, but that game costs significantly more.

    I don't blame the distributors either - they are just trying to sell product. Would be nice if you could "lock in" a reservation at a price.

    #650 75 days ago
    Quoted from Palmer:

    After Effects is not a 3D animation program...well technically it can do 3D but not really what most animators use for 3D. That isn't the point though. He talks as if the majority of the heavy lifting is done. Also glosses over graphic design and UI. All of these things take time. Just because it is an LCD screen doesn't make content easier to make for it.

    What are talking about from all the animations I’ve seen are clearly 2d. It’s not Pixar.

    There are 1,300 posts in this topic. You are on page 13 of 26.

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