Yeah, pinball machines don't cost $250k - $500k+...but maybe soon at this rate!

I am into racing and riding dirt bikes. I get it man. Try out a dirt bike. Seems like me and everyone else on a Sea Doo is always looking to jump it. So just get a machine made to jump. I am almost 60 still doing 90 footers.

Funny thing with that is I had a Kiss pro and while it's a pretty simple game, the build quality of the cabinet felt notably more solid than the Iron Maiden premium I had gotten brand new

Yeah, it seems worse than usual. But the last year has also seen a big increase in used market and NIB. Once things settle down so will the pricing talk I am sure.

Right but ur Pizza comparison made sense?

You lost me. I never said I could totally afford a Ferrari. I certainly can’t! Lol!

Ah. That gives the reason for starting the thread a little more context. That would grind my gears too. Especially if you already had the order in!

And you know that somehow these games are gonna get ‘delayed’ until 01/02/2022 so the prices go up. What’s to stop a distro from telling you that your game hasn’t come in yet, when in reality it truly has, and they just want to make an extra buck? Maybe it sits in their storage for a for a few weeks before they tell you it’s in. Not saying all would, just the ones that are already boosting prices…

So Sterns increase is definitely reflecting on used Stern games . My wanted add was answered with a price for their game . I was gonna take it , then nope , “don’t know what it’s worth with Sterns price increase”

"Capitalism"

Not after given a price . That’s not cool man

More like CapitalJISM, amirite?!

(TAF) Gomez said it best!

Greed (resized).jpg

kinda like the ones that are allready charging msrp. never payed msrp in my life.

Greed is good. (Gordon Gecko)

Based on that statement, I'm assuming you have a lot of hobbies having a $6,000 entry point?

We aren't talking about a $10 increase in the price of a tennis racket in this thread.

Painfully clear not many here have a clue on what it takes to survive and profit in MFG. the cost of all raw materials has risen steadily over the past few years. The cost of any outside services needed have risen as well. Not to mention the huge costs of employees - increased wages as well as huge increases in health care. Guarantee they are looking for line workers as well - the worker shortage is a huge problem right now. Times are tough when you now have to compete with Amazon at $18 an hr plus a $3,000 sign on bonus. Tough fight to get someone on an assembly line these days and that’s a fact across Chicagoland MFG. Nothing is cheap these days and you’d have to be completely naive or have your head burried in the sand as to expect pricing to remain the same in a luxury hobby like this during a 2 year pandemic. Sure I’m not thrilled with it but it is what it is. Welcome to reality.
People complaining about a luxury toy price increase while millions are struggling to keep a roof over their heads and their family fed…

Go back to your moms basement...

Easy solution, stop paying guys.

7k for a pro is absurd. I’m out, more will follow.

You're kidding, right? Your banality would make me want to throw up on the person next to me (bonus points if you get the reference).

You do realize what I meant by this comment is it is an employee's market right now, right? Some people are realizing they don't have to put up with low wages and have options. Some people are taking the extra money and making advancements in their careers, or going back to school and getting the education and qualifications they need to go farther in life than food services or retail. That's what I am getting at and for big companies to quick taking record profits and give it back to the people that allow such profits to occur - the common worker - not stockholders and "administration".

Did you all REALLY think I was ok with people just sitting home and "staying in their mom's basement" living off the government? As an active duty service member, it sickens me that people cash hand-out checks.

Hope that clears that up. Now if you'll excuse me, my mom just said my Fruity Pebbles are ready and my retro-80s cartoons are about to come on so I can sit in my TMNT tightey-whiteys all day. There's like 25 basement stairs to go up, and I have to hold my stomach out of the way to see my feet so I can properly traverse the stairs. This may take a couple tries so I need to hurry. If I hurry, I get donuts and tatertots for lunch.

Stern is taking people for a ride at these new insane prices. Regardless of whether or not people think Stern is better then JJP or vice versa it's clear which company has the greater cost per game and it's JJP. A Stern LE and JJP LE are now basically the same price. The JJP LE comes with significantly more hardware in it from the old Bally / Williams style lock down bar mech, the traditional head lock, and especially far more hardware in the head of the cabinet compared to a Stern. Open the backbox of a Stern and you will see a couple small boards, open a JJP backbox and you will 5x the amount of hardware. There's other items as well including the metal leg protectors, the entire head being made out of wood, boards being full RGB, etc. I won't even touch the coding aspect which I think is higher at JJP compared to Stern.

Again none of what I said means one companies games are better or more fun then the other but it's clear which company is making more profit per game at these latest prices. Did Stern raise prices because material cost are up? Sure, a bit but the real reason for such a large price increase is that they believe there's enough people to continue buying games at the higher price point.

Perhaps JJP will now raise prices from $10,500 to $11,500 after seeing what Stern did, then Stern will do the same in a year. The price increase madness will likely continue.

Almost makes you wonder if it was intentional and they inserted a convenient little pause in there.

Actually, I'm sure it was... I'm sure they knew what they were doing by retroactively raising the prices for models previously priced lowers... orders all over the place... they knew what they were doing. Especially to the people already in queue for getting one. They are going to bank big on that: the fish that are already hooked.

True shit. Like I said in an earlier post, I wouldn't be surprised if operators and collectors both lean towards JJP more now that the prices are so close. You get way more hardware and pizazz for your buck in a JJP, and while Sterns are great (and there are certain Sterns I would take over certain JJP games regardless of price anyways, such as Jurassic Park), I'm sure there's a lot of times when collectors went with a Stern instead of a JJP due to the price alone as their final decision-making factor. If you're undecided, that price difference was a big bargaining chip that made the answer a bit clearer and weighted heavily towards Stern... now gone.

If JJP is smart, they wouldn't do an increase and reap the benefits of Stern's silly decision. The closer that price gap is, is more sales for JJP. And lucky for them, they didn't have to stoop down... Stern rose up for them. Business as usual for JJP, as Stern made the change. The gap narrows...

"It's only $500 more..." is a lot more convincing than "It's $2,000-$3,000 more...", which is dangerous for Stern. The price gap was Stern's handicap to keep the playing field level as can be and I'm surprised they didn't realize that.

If Godzilla LE is paid in full can it go up in price?

Landlords and their families need to eat too. So do Stern employees.

It’s not an “employees market”. Stimulus money has caused a lot of the labor issues. How do you expect people to be motivated to go to work when they are making more sitting home in their couch.

It’s Time for everyone to get back to work.

Problem is that This inflation isn’t transitory like Powell would want(hope) to believe, the extra stimulus money has caused this inflation and its here to stay.

Hope you enjoy paying 9k for your Stern Premiums.

Gordon Gekko says it best.

7E6E5F1D-6046-4F40-9EB5-8E477AA1E41C (resized).jpeg

Only on the secondary market.

Riiiiiiiiiight

Yes, entitlement.
People feel like they deserve to be able to buy pinball machines at a certain price and get angry when companies raise prices due to increased costs and desire for more profit. I guess they would prefer state run pinball company.

That time period around Kiss is when a bunch of their cabinets were splitting. They are built better now.

Bingo ,and they're probably right !

If stern can make an equally fun game at lower build costs I'm not sure how that's a plus for jjp. Why exactly do I need a bunch of outdated electronics in the head? Just more crap to break and service. Everything you just listed as some big plus for JJP will mean nothing to 90+% of the buyers. People care about it looking cool, being fun, shooting good, replayability. Those Williams head locks suck anyway. JJP needs to figure out that some things from 1992 can still be improved upon.

I actually tend to like well-made Stern better than a well-made JJP (each has their gems and turds, but let's say a gem vs. a gem for precisely fair comparison) just based off of design, flow, artwork, and the flipper mechs, but there's no denying that a JJP bill-of-materials is above what Stern puts into their games. I believe that is what PanzerFreak is trying to say as well in his statement.

That's not an opinion, that's a fact you can prove. I believe that's what he was trying to say. They very clearly dump way more money into them at JJP than they do at Stern. Doesn't matter if the game is better or not. That's besides the point. Singlehandedly only speaking about the numbers, JJP puts more stuff into their games. Again, not an opinion... if you could acquire the bill of materials for each of the last 5 games from both I'm sure this would ring true as fact and not be up for discussion. "Fun factor" and whatever else totally aside, the guy is speaking facts about facts.

Thread title reminds me of this.

91sn32Q (resized).jpg

I'm also glad JJP pushed Stern to do LCDs. The fact that LCDs weren't done in like 2003 is kind of laughable. Stern was 14 years late to the party in 2017. The technology existed way back in the early 2000's and it's all quite simple.

I have a feeling if it weren't for JJP we still be doing DMDs in Stern games. It's really a miracle they lasted as long as they did, especially into the late 2010's... surely driven by the monopoly and lack of any competition.

Driving an LCD was doable by 2003. And with the basic graphics they had in Batman and Aerosmith, that was doable back then too. Now Stern seems to finally have its feet wet with utilizing the screen to its full potential, but at first it was kind of rudimentary and all basic 2D graphics. (Batman and Aerosmith, etc.)

It would be great if JJP put our more pins or pins that I’d buy. I won’t buy GnR or Wonka. I’d buy Potc but they aren’t making them.

So what wait years for the next JJP? They should keep making their back titles because people would buy Potc.

The dealers here are constantly out of stock, even with high prices they are having a hard time keeping inventory of any new pins, most of the inventory around is just used machines at this point as they quickly sell any new arrivals. The pins are selling and the cost to ship and produce anything right now is going up. PB just raised prices big time, 1UP is doing crazy prices increases too, and it's not going to stop. The other companies are gonna be forced to raise prices too no doubt, some are selling at high premiums already but some are gonna feel the pinch and raise prices as right now most industries are expecting prices to keep going up on raw materials as there is no end in site right now to manufacturing woes and demand.

Folks are buying pins, costs of manufacturing going up, yea prices are gonna keep raising and this isn't gonna be stern exclusive.

Nevermind the fact they were initially 5-6 times the price as they are now…and they were limited heavily on the aspect ratios available. I mean….”screw you Stern!”

Gary's reaction seeing people defend the price increases.

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That could have been accounted for, but add a few years for padding if it makes you feel better and push it to the mid-2000s. At the most extreme least possible, by 2009-2010 there are no more excuses and everything was LCD-a-plenty by then. Every house had a widescreen LCD for their computer, a modern flatscreen LCD for their TV, the things were modern, and practically all hardware on Earth had switch to LCDs. Even car stereos switched to LCD around that time or earlier. The fact that it took 7 years after 2010 is laughable.

The only people buying DMDs after the mid-2000s was probably Stern and the NYC subway system replacing their ancient technology instead of updating them lol

Such a shame because I feel like Ghostbusters would have been a home run with an LCD. Now I can't even play the dang thing, having gotten a taste of pinball with LCDs. It looks 15 years older now, and it surely shows that way on location too. Put a 2016 Ghostbusters next to a 2017 Stern and it's a big change.

As soon as the LCD dropped, they aged the prior set of games ahead of it by 10+ years. That would've been less painful in the 2000s than in the 2010s where a 2016 game is made to look ancient. Old tech the day they rolled out of the factory, it just took a few years for it to be "shown up" and immediately date them all (they already were dated, but nobody realized before then.)

Gary made people pay extra at the pinball auction too?

You can’t fight it. I was trying to negotiate on a SUV several months back. I was saying that’s not any good price getting ready to leave. They said no problem you can leave because this car will sell tomorrow and then we aren’t getting any more for a while. Not like they had 50 of them sitting on their lot or en route.

You can’t play the BOM. Stern’s pins are just more fun to play IMO. Who gives a shit how the lockbar and head are secured? And I used to think wooden heads were better than metal, but now I don’t care. It sounds like you guys are upset that Stern is better at being profitable than JJP.

Adam, what’s the grail pin?

No they didn’t. Next you’ll say that P3 pushed them to online play.