(Topic ID: 300400)

F You Stern and your price increases

By WeirPinball

81 days ago


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    There are 1,300 posts in this topic. You are on page 11 of 26.
    #501 79 days ago
    Quoted from epthegeek:

    The thing that drives people nuts is that you're profit-taking on game you decided you don't want. If you just decided you don't want it after learning the details, why not just let it go at cost to someone who does want it?

    So that person can then sell it for more than they paid for it?

    #502 79 days ago
    Quoted from greeneye:

    Just don't buy from flippers. Thats it. Don't buy NIB
    The prices will only continue to increase

    Bingo. Ignore flippers, buy the Prem if you really want it to play.

    I kinda wonder what the scalper percentage of LE purchases was in this one. The hype over the actual game seems kinda tame compared to other new releases. Even if it’s 50/50, that’s 500 scalpers competing with each other. If you really want an LE, wait it out…they might buckle at MSRP (or less) when they realize no ones biting.

    #503 79 days ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    I guess I’ll be the one to say it: these price hikes will help put a floor under used pin prices. I just got an LZ Premium for $7k and I’m feeling downright thrifty.
    I didn’t mind paying $500 more for an LCD display, or even a little more for Spike, which has turned out to be a very solid system. But what new feature is going to make someone (even an operator) pay $8999 for a premium? I’m not seeing it. I’m still in for a Rush, if that happens. But I may have to settle for the Pro. First world problems indeed.

    Hell yeah! I’m still in on a Rush too!

    #504 79 days ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Bingo. Ignore flippers, buy the Prem if you really want it to play.
    I kinda wonder what the scalper percentage of LE purchases was in this one. The hype over the actual game seems kinda tame compared to other new releases. Even if it’s 50/50, that’s 500 scalpers competing with each other. If you really want an LE, wait it out…they might buckle at MSRP (or less) when they realize no ones biting.

    1000 LEs selling out in 4 minutes is tame? Also are you basing that off of pinside because im sure the majority of buyers probably dont speak in the forums. I purchased a Pro and a Premium for our location.

    #505 79 days ago

    It's funny how I had a few tell me a couple years ago that my collection was worth way less than what I paid for it and how I would not get the principal back out...how the tide has changed.

    #506 79 days ago

    at this juncture in time it is over 50 % speculative buying easy /
    Not many Checked off in the LE dept in the Preorder Thread

    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Bingo. Ignore flippers, buy the Prem if you really want it to play.
    I kinda wonder what the scalper percentage of LE purchases was in this one. The hype over the actual game seems kinda tame compared to other new releases. Even if it’s 50/50, that’s 500 scalpers competing with each other. If you really want an LE, wait it out…they might buckle at MSRP (or less) when they realize no ones biting.

    #507 79 days ago
    Quoted from epthegeek:

    Did I pre-order a home before it was built just so some other homeowner couldn't get their hands on it only to sell it back to them at a markup?
    Maybe try a comparison that makes some sense.
    I'm not saying they don't have the right to ask whatever the hell they want for it, I'm just saying it irks most people.

    Agreed anytime I am spending more for something someone paid less for it kinda irks me, not so much as I get older.

    #508 79 days ago
    Quoted from paul_8788:

    The two things are nothing alike. One is selling at market value a product you own, the other is scalping.

    Market value is the amount a scalper can get. I am thankful for scalpers I enjoy row one of concerts, the only way I really want to go now a days. My last 3 concerts were all Coldplay in different cities without the scalpers I would not have attended one of the shows. I don't care what they make I am willing to pay the market value to sit where I want to sit. For the record I am a construction worker, who grow up, part of my childhood on welfare.

    #509 79 days ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    If you really want an LE, wait it out…they might buckle at MSRP (or less) when they realize no ones biting.

    The problem with this is I do not think many LE buyers bought them on credit cards or leveraged at all. That is most pinball owners for that matter and one reason the prices don't and won't come down. People with money to buy games for cash understand they have no pressure to sell, less selling = higher prices

    #510 79 days ago
    Quoted from JohnTTwo:

    Market value is the amount a scalper can get. I am thankful for scalpers I enjoy row one of concerts, the only way I really want to go now a days. My last 3 concerts were all Coldplay in different cities without the scalpers I would not have attended one of the shows. I don't care what they make I am willing to pay the market value to sit where I want to sit. For the record I am a construction worker, who grow up, part of my childhood on welfare.

    Well I hate scalpers now. I'd never want it to be known I was at a coldplay concert and they apparently are enabling such abhorrent behavior

    #511 79 days ago
    Quoted from Blindseer:

    1000 LEs selling out in 4 minutes is tame? Also are you basing that off of pinside because im sure the majority of buyers probably dont speak in the forums. I purchased a Pro and a Premium for our location.

    You misread what I said. I meant the TALK about the game is tame. People aren't losing their minds and talking about the game a ton like when other games come out. Which leads me to believe most of the LE purchases are speculators and not actual "real" buyers.

    #512 79 days ago
    Quoted from V8haha:

    Without location play pinball dies… i don’t care what you say, it may take a few decades but it will die.

    If you recall the late 1990's and early 2000's. After Williams closed. Pinball all but disappeared from locations. There were exceptions, but many areas were pinball deserts. When Stern started rolling with games like POTC, etc. Many people didn't know what it was.

    And it hung on.

    It may change. It may be more or less. But as long as pinball machines are being made. It will remain in locations.

    LTG : )

    #513 79 days ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Well I hate scalpers now. I'd never want it to be known I was at a coldplay concert and they apparently are enabling such abhorrent behavior

    Nah I can tell you what is cool at a Cold play event and I have seen it all three times in row one is this. The very best 2 seats in the elbow of the stage are given out to random fans already in the house. They go get some rabid fans with Cold Play signs and or other rabib fans stuff shirts with lights in them etc. I have chatted with these lucky folks twice and both of them came out out of the nose bleed areas, and a Cold Play reps says hey would you like to sit down lower and bring them to the best seats. By far my favorite shows in the music industry

    #514 79 days ago
    Quoted from DBLM:

    Got to love it when people make it about class warfare. Let's be real clear here: a person's bank account is not making the price of pinball go up; it is the mania of collectors that is driving prices. I see so many people bitching about the prices here and how they are not going to buy any more NIB. That rich guys are ruining the market. Then I see how many games they own. 8 machines. 20. More. So what this tells you is that all things being equal, they want the new games, but they don't want or can't afford to buy the new games. So as opposed to enjoying the games they have, buy used, go to league, whatever they crap on people that can afford to buy the games. I have seen on here people talking about raising the prices on LE's to subsidize the lower models. Absolutely ridiculous.
    As I said earlier, PINBALL OWES YOU NOTHING! People get way wrapped into this and feel that they have to have rows of games to participate. People with this thought process are only hurting themselves because they are setting themselves up for failure. "If I can't buy this game, I can't participate at the level I want, so that makes me feel bad. Let me direct this anger to rich people buying games as an outlet for my fury." It is bullshit. Enjoy what you have and how you participate in the hobby. As NPO would categorize and judge me, I can stroke a check. I have one, count them one, machine. A Hook that I bought in '99 for 700 bucks. Dont care where it is on the Pinside list. I love that machine. I play other games on location. I am sure I will buy another machine sometime but I dont put the value on machines that some of you do. Pinball does not define who I am. Sadly, for a lot of you, I get the feeling that pinball is your identity. This is toxic for you and your mental health. Get your priorities straight.
    Stern is raising pin pricing because they are a business. That is how businesses survive. Rich people can assuredly afford things, which factors into their pricing decisions. But the collector mentality (regardless of income) is the driving factor in pricing across the board going up.

    There you go again, speaking the truth, making sense, and trying to be logical

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    #515 79 days ago
    Quoted from PinFever:

    I see people build pins from Scratch threads on here all the time..
    If you look at part prices back ten years ago and look and these part prices now ,the Diff in prices is not substantially drastic .
    The Spike system cost cut loads of wires and wire harnesses and boards and labor putting them together / .
    the upgrade from DMD cost to the Little TV Screen probably saved them money due to How u can buy a smart 60" TV LED for under 600 dollars so what does that tiny thing cost . the game is a good 50+ lighter due to how much less stuff is in them /
    easier to assemble/ Workers dont get big raises . who does .
    They add a Tech that no one cares for and increased again after so many

    Also been a Business owner /plumbing Contractor and not much has changed in my last 20 years / Service charges are still the same 100-150 for a Service call's first hour / Again i call Bullsheet / go back 12 months/ ughhh

    Sorry, you can't equate a homebrew build with a business like Stern who employees 100's of people, needs to buy supplies for 1,000's of builds at a time, has overhead, insurance, .. and other business expenses.
    Glad the plumbing business has not been impacted - every other business owner I speak with has experienced increases in their costs.

    11
    #516 79 days ago
    Quoted from NPO:

    The increases just seem driven by something other than market.

    Please give a single example of how Stern's price increase is anything *other* than the market.

    18
    #517 79 days ago

    Let's do a little thought experiment with an argument that you have never seen here on Pinside: the bourbon-argument. For the uninitiated, fall brings the release of a lot of the allocated bourbons, and the ones that a lot of people like to hunt are from Buffalo Trace. This would be Pappy, Stagg, and the like. We are talking bottles that retail for $100 reselling for 8-10x or more than MSRP. You will never find these on the shelf at MSRP. Normally, you have to spend many thousands of dollars a year to qualify to even buy them. People track down trucks to follow them. All for something that ultimately, you are going to piss out.

    Personally, I don't like the taste of the booze from this company so don't hunt them and don't care. But I know a lot of people that do. Sometimes they get lucky, other times they don't. When they don't, the make a decision if they want to pay up to get it or not. Sometimes, they can try it out at a bar. We have a pretty tight knit group of guys that used to be on Pinside that between all of us, somebody will get the rare stuff and share with the others. And you know what? Sometimes, when we try these highly sought after bourbons, we find out that they are not worth it. The thing is, it all starts out as the same bourbon as some of the lower priced bourbons that are just aged more, or a little differently. Kind of like an LE pinball and a Premium pinball.

    Which brings us to pinball. You say you need an LE, but do you really? Is there that much different between an LE and a Premium? Can you really tell the difference between the two or not? Do you just want it as status and pissed you can't get it? Now dont get me wrong, sometimes I can taste the difference in bourbons between the high and the low, and sometime's I can't. Sometimes I just want to go buy a high end bottle because I have the connections and the cash, and do so. I am sure that some of you buy pinball for the same reason. People flip bourbon all the time and it causes a rift in the community. But these people put in the time and built the relationships to get the bottles. Same on the pinball side. Without flippers, scalpers, whatever, it is hard to get some of these allocated things in life. Is what it is. But it still does not prevent you from enjoying the hobby. You can drink Eagle Rare and have just as much fun as drinking Stagg (buying used pinballs). You can go to a bar and try a high end bourbon much cheaper than buying a bottle (location play). You can also have buddies share bourbon with you, which is like going to a friends house with an awesome collection. See, you are still participating, and doing it at a level that makes sense to you.

    #518 79 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    I could care less ...

    *Couldn't*

    #519 79 days ago
    Quoted from epthegeek:

    Did I pre-order a home before it was built just so some other homeowner couldn't get their hands on it only to sell it back to them at a markup?

    If you were smart and had the cash to do - it would be a smart business move in this housing environment

    #520 79 days ago
    Quoted from JohnTTwo:

    The problem with this is I do not think many LE buyers bought them on credit cards or leveraged at all. That is most pinball owners for that matter and one reason the prices don't and won't come down. People with money to buy games for cash understand they have no pressure to sell, less selling = higher prices

    Well put ,and as a fellow construction worker I always have had a emergency savings fund for when things got slow .The difference now is that emergency fund is in the basement and I’m having fun with it just about nightly .To tell you the truth ,I don’t golf or go out to bars anymore so I look at it like I’m paying 1/2 price for these with money saved elsewhere .This hobby rocks !!

    #521 79 days ago

    I couldn't care less lol.

    -1
    #522 79 days ago

    they are so big and productive that they save big money compared to HOMEBREW . i was talking relative price of parts and components in the short span that games from stern were 4500 to your door for a Kiss Pro and GOT pro / so your point is Mute
    . As far as plumbing i am mad it has not been impacted like Stern Hompin/le/pro/prem pricing . or i would be charging 400 an hour service charge

    Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

    Sorry, you can't equate a homebrew build with a business like Stern who employees 100's of people, needs to buy supplies for 1,000's of builds at a time, has overhead, insurance, .. and other business expenses.
    Glad the plumbing business has not been impacted - every other business owner I speak with has experienced increases in their costs.

    Honestly ask yourself what a Kiss Pro/Got pro 4500 pro price to your door to todays 6800 NIB pro price and tell me where the 2300 DOLLARS increase was from ? and anything extra you get from one to the other game.

    #523 79 days ago

    So Stern takes away Stern rewards from its customers without any warning then hikes the MSRP of its games. Just doesn’t sit right. They’re literally still selling these games, but they’re no longer available to those they were supposed to be available to for the better price.

    0DDD80D2-73EC-4AD4-8EFB-AFAFE8E27A43 (resized).jpeg

    #524 79 days ago
    Quoted from RVApinballer:

    So Stern takes away Stern rewards from its customers without any warning then hikes the MSRP of its games. Just doesn’t sit right. They’re literally still selling these games, but they’re no longer available to those they were supposed to be available to for the better price.
    [quoted image]

    Bummer. Where did they say these were going away?

    #525 79 days ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    You misread what I said. I meant the TALK about the game is tame. People aren't losing their minds and talking about the game a ton like when other games come out. Which leads me to believe most of the LE purchases are speculators and not actual "real" buyers.

    Im sure there is plenty hype especially after seeing those crazy prices from the auction last week. I just dont think you might be seeing it from the normal crowds. but everyone in our community is hyped for it.

    #526 79 days ago
    Quoted from PinFever:

    Honestly ask yourself what a Kiss Pro/Got pro 4500 pro price to your door to todays 6800 NIB pro price and tell me where the 2300 DOLLARS increase was from ? and anything extra you get from one to the other game.

    Simple, increase cost of animators
    increased cost of BOM
    increased cost of state and govt regulations due to covid
    increased cost of shipping
    increased cost of wages to keep the factory open
    increased cost of every supply for the business

    #527 79 days ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Bummer. Where did they say these were going away?

    They didn’t say they were going away for good, they just randomly were all unavailable with no real estimate as to when they might be again. I realize this isn’t their main distribution line, but I was counting on making a purchase through this so it’s a real letdown to see this go away and then have distributor prices rise so much at the same time.

    #528 79 days ago
    Quoted from RVApinballer:

    They didn’t say they were going away for good, they just randomly were all unavailable with no real estimate as to when they might be again. I realize this isn’t their main distribution line, but I was counting on making a purchase through this so it’s a real letdown to see this go away and then have distributor prices rise so much at the same time.

    Okay. So nothing is cancelled. Just way behind. Thanks.

    #529 79 days ago
    Quoted from DBLM:

    Let's do a little thought experiment with an argument that you have never seen here on Pinside: the bourbon-argument. For the uninitiated, fall brings the release of a lot of the allocated bourbons, and the ones that a lot of people like to hunt are from Buffalo Trace. This would be Pappy, Stagg, and the like. We are talking bottles that retail for $100 reselling for 8-10x or more than MSRP. You will never find these on the shelf at MSRP. Normally, you have to spend many thousands of dollars a year to qualify to even buy them. People track down trucks to follow them. All for something that ultimately, you are going to piss out.
    Personally, I don't like the taste of the booze from this company so don't hunt them and don't care. But I know a lot of people that do. Sometimes they get lucky, other times they don't. When they don't, the make a decision if they want to pay up to get it or not. Sometimes, they can try it out at a bar. We have a pretty tight knit group of guys that used to be on Pinside that between all of us, somebody will get the rare stuff and share with the others. And you know what? Sometimes, when we try these highly sought after bourbons, we find out that they are not worth it. The thing is, it all starts out as the same bourbon as some of the lower priced bourbons that are just aged more, or a little differently. Kind of like an LE pinball and a Premium pinball.
    Which brings us to pinball. You say you need an LE, but do you really? Is there that much different between an LE and a Premium? Can you really tell the difference between the two or not? Do you just want it as status and pissed you can't get it? Now dont get me wrong, sometimes I can taste the difference in bourbons between the high and the low, and sometime's I can't. Sometimes I just want to go buy a high end bottle because I have the connections and the cash, and do so. I am sure that some of you buy pinball for the same reason. People flip bourbon all the time and it causes a rift in the community. But these people put in the time and built the relationships to get the bottles. Same on the pinball side. Without flippers, scalpers, whatever, it is hard to get some of these allocated things in life. Is what it is. But it still does not prevent you from enjoying the hobby. You can drink Eagle Rare and have just as much fun as drinking Stagg (buying used pinballs). You can go to a bar and try a high end bourbon much cheaper than buying a bottle (location play). You can also have buddies share bourbon with you, which is like going to a friends house with an awesome collection. See, you are still participating, and doing it at a level that makes sense to you.

    I got a bottle of Pappy 15yr a few years back. Thought about flipping it but wanted to see what the hype was about, so I kept it and drank it. Should have flipped it. It was nothing special. Bourbon tastes like bourbon to me.

    #530 79 days ago
    Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

    Sorry, you can't equate a homebrew build with a business like Stern who employees 100's of people, needs to buy supplies for 1,000's of builds at a time, has overhead, insurance, .. and other business expenses.
    Glad the plumbing business has not been impacted - every other business owner I speak with has experienced increases in their costs.

    Totally agree, but will they lower the machine cost when the supply chain catches up and costs lower? I doubt it.

    #531 79 days ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    I'd never want it to be known I was at a coldplay concert

    Sounds like a personal problem.

    #532 79 days ago

    What happened to the “ten thousand” by Christmas joke?
    Everyday is Christmas now.

    -5
    #533 79 days ago

    Meanwhile.... In Bangladesh, Venezuela, and Haiti. They cant buy rice, toilet paper, and mud pies. Must be covid inflation

    #534 79 days ago
    Quoted from RVApinballer:

    So Stern takes away Stern rewards from its customers without any warning then hikes the MSRP of its games. Just doesn’t sit right. They’re literally still selling these games, but they’re no longer available to those they were supposed to be available to for the better price.
    [quoted image]

    IFPA rewards exists to sell games when there’s plenty of games to sell and demand is low. Kind of like Groupon.

    Well, demand is high and supply is low so good luck with that.

    #535 79 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    IFPA rewards exists to sell games when there’s plenty of games to sell and demand is low. Kind of like Groupon.
    Well, demand is high and supply is low so good luck with that.

    Yup. Lucky us!

    12
    #536 79 days ago

    I'll be honest, I haven't read through this whole thread, just the title and first few posts.

    I guess I don't really understand it though. If you don't like the price of the games, why not just stop buying them and move on with your life? Is it really necessary to say fuck you to them on a public forum? Seems really odd.

    I don't like the price of Ferrari's, but I don't say fuck you to the company in front of thousands of people. I just don't buy them...

    Am I missing something?

    #537 79 days ago
    Quoted from NightTrain:

    I'll be honest, I haven't read through this whole thread, just the title and first few posts.
    I guess I don't really understand it though. If you don't like the price of the games, why not just stop buying them and move on with your life? Is it really necessary to say fuck you to them on a public forum? Seems really odd.
    I don't like the price of Ferrari's, but I don't say fuck you to the company in front of thousands of people. I just don't buy them...
    Am I missing something?

    Nope. Just your standard forum bitching. People love it.

    #538 79 days ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Nope. Just your standard forum bitching. People love it.

    Yup. Easiest pop on Pinside. These threads are always huge.

    Like Gary’s wallet!!! Am I right folks?!?!

    #539 79 days ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Nope. Just your standard forum bitching. People love it.

    Ah I see. Doesn't seem all that productive. Nor does me typing this...

    #540 79 days ago
    Quoted from NightTrain: I don't like the price of Ferrari's, but I don't say fuck you to the company in front of thousands of people. I just don't buy them...
    Am I missing something?

    Someone humble bragging about how they can totally afford Ferarris, that you should probably just get a better job or three, and then coming back to laugh at how totally triggered you were.

    #541 79 days ago
    Quoted from NightTrain:

    I'll be honest, I haven't read through this whole thread, just the title and first few posts.

    I guess I don't really understand it though. If you don't like the price of the games, why not just stop buying them and move on with your life? Is it really necessary to say fuck you to them on a public forum? Seems really odd.

    I don't like the price of Ferrari's, but I don't say fuck you to the company in front of thousands of people. I just don't buy them...

    Am I missing something?

    Yeah, I can't believe it. Discussing significant price increases for pinball machines on a pinball forum. What is the world coming to? Now discussing the price of Ferarris and Rolexes in a pinball forum is a bit weird I grant you.

    #542 79 days ago
    Quoted from paul_8788:

    Yeah, I can't believe it. Discussing significant price increases for pinball machines on a pinball forum. What is the world coming to? Now discussing the price of Ferarris and Rolexes in a pinball forum is a bit weird I grant you.

    Sometimes it really seems like all anybody wants to talk about. No other hobby I’ve ever dipped my toe into is this obsessed with money/value/bubbles.

    #543 79 days ago
    Quoted from JohnTTwo:

    What would you guess those sea-doos will be worth in 10 years?

    Well since you ask they have doubled in price since I bought them in Feb. Boats/skis skyrocketed just like pinball machines if not more, but even if they didn't the fun value was way higher than a pinball machine.

    #544 79 days ago
    Quoted from Scandell:

    Downvote my post if you have never sold one of your games for more than you purchased it for.

    I've never bought a game I didn't intend to keep, but also, I've never sold a game. Intention, as with everything is key. Doing it 'just because I can' is a mentality we as a human species need to get away from.

    For example, I could wish that right after I buy a game that the factory burns down and no one else gets a game so that the price of mine goes up, but that's a shitty thing to wish for. I'd rather more people have the experience if they want, than worry about f'ing people over for a few $$. Sadly, I'm in the minority regarding that. Greed over everything is indeed the mantra by the majority and they will come up with every reason they can think of to justify it rather than call it what it really is.

    #545 79 days ago
    Quoted from NightTrain:

    I don't like the price of Ferrari's, but I don't say fuck you to the company in front of thousands of people. I just don't buy them...

    Most people can't afford a Ferrari to begin with. Hits differently when you "used to be able to".

    #546 79 days ago
    Quoted from DBLM:

    As NPO would categorize and judge me, I can stroke a check

    PM sent.

    #547 79 days ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    Looks like I'm going to write off buying sterns - with the new price hike - I just cancelled my deadpool order - It's to a point where they crossed the line. Bummer because they have some titles I still wanted to get. Someone has to start saying no - Looks like I'll be one of them.

    Not reading through all 11 pages of this thread but just curious if you’re going to create a FU thread for every other product/material/service that’s shot up in price recently? If so you better get typing, it’s going to take awhile!

    #548 79 days ago

    Pinside is definitely more lit up than usual this time around.
    So when does that CGC remake supposedly come out again?
    F08C4392-DEDA-4847-A337-2DAE4B7B18C8 (resized).jpeg

    #549 79 days ago
    Quoted from luch:

    that's ok , the jays will make it in and Boston won't and you'll save money . lol

    Short story: I saw Toronto native Jeff Healey at a small venue in Syracuse, NY during the time period of the 1993 World Series and he interrupted a song to ask what the score of the game was. The guy could scorch.

    #550 79 days ago
    Quoted from woody76:

    Well since you ask they have doubled in price since I bought them in Feb. Boats/skis skyrocketed just like pinball machines if not more, but even if they didn't the fun value was way higher than a pinball machine.

    That’s awesome! It’s usually on the buy side when someone makes money.

    They haven’t doubled around here, up but not double again congrats and I am happy for you.

    There are 1,300 posts in this topic. You are on page 11 of 26.

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