(Topic ID: 117449)

F-14 Tilt and outhole kicker issues


By Gorno

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 23 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by LongJohns
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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20150205_002405.jpg
dernet2.jpg

#1 4 years ago

I recently picked up an f-14 and it was functioning fine until the machine was shipped. This is my first system 11 and I am not quite sure where to start. The tilt problem is so bad that as soon as you start a game it will register the three tilts and then you game is over. All four tilt switches are not physically engaged, and after a google searched it looks like SRC6 could be the problem. My SRC6 is not factory and has been replaced by some sort of resistor/capacitor rats nest. Could it be transistors too?

Also, as soon as the game boots up the outhole kicker seems to be stuck in a cycle where it will fire every half a second. I ran some diagnostics and the switches all register. I also fiddled with the micro switch under the outhole and it still would not stop firing. I haven't had a ton of time to look at the machine, but I will wondering where I should start.

#2 4 years ago
Quoted from Gorno:

My SRC6 is not factory and has been replaced by some sort of resistor/capacitor rats nest.

As long as it is built correctly, using discrete components is fine. Does it look like this? Send a photo.dernet2.jpg

It could be a shorted switch or diode on the playfield elsewhere (it actually sounds like that outhole kicker switch could be related, so I would tackle that one first. I would first replace the diode, then replace the switch if no other wiring short is visible)

I had random tilts when I aquired my Tomcat and it turned out to be a Tomcat target shorting. If a transistor were failing, you would usually get a whole row or column failing the switch test, so I would put that at the bottom of my list of suspects.

#3 4 years ago

I don't know if you found this thread but it may provide some useful information. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/f-14-system-11

#4 4 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

As long as it is built correctly, using discrete components is fine. Does it look like this? Send a photo.
It could be a shorted switch or diode on the playfield elsewhere (it actually sounds like that outhole kicker switch could be related, so I would tackle that one first. I would first replace the diode, then replace the switch if no other wiring short is visible)
I had random tilts when I aquired my Tomcat and it turned out to be a Tomcat target shorting. If a transistor were failing, you would usually get a whole row or column failing the switch test, so I would put that at the bottom of my list of suspects.

dernet2.jpg 22 KB

Mine looks significantly more complicated. I will send a picture tonight. I will likely just replace the whole set up. The firing outhole kicker is quite confusing to me. I guess I will have to try and muddle through some diode testing. These are the days I wish I was an electrician.

#5 4 years ago
Quoted from Gorno:

These are the days I wish I was an electrician.

It certainly can help.

Regardless, If the SRC6 is built incorrectly you certainly can have some problems!

Remember, the switch matrix tests are your friend. To divide and conquer, the first thing to do is to determine if you have a playfield problem, or an MPU problem. Start by checking the MPU reporting using the shorting method:

See:
"Testing the Switch Columns (all system 11 revisions)"
and "Testing the Switch Rows (all system 11 revisions)"
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wms11/index3.htm#switch

#6 4 years ago

This is the mess that's on the board currently. Diode tests tomorrow. Hopefully I can figure out why the outhole is firing and hopefully the replacement SRC6 will fix the tilt issues.

20150205_002405.jpg

#7 4 years ago

Damn that thing is ugly! The factory component that originally was at SRC6 had resistors AND capacitors. The replacements that people have been using lately per various Sys 11 guides spec out a SIP made up of resistors only. It does not have the capacitors. They are not needed and can, in fact, be the cause of your headaches.

#8 4 years ago

The bigger problem with that thing is there is no insulation and no separation insuring that leads can't touch each other. I would recommend rebuilding it correctly with just the resistors first. Then test the MPU switch matrix directly with the playfield connectors removed to see where you stand.

#9 4 years ago

That was my biggest concern as well. All the leads are contacting each other. I ordered a SIP with 9 resistors and 10 pins (as per the guides), so hopefully this will solve half of my headache.

#10 4 years ago

This headache won't go away. I replaced the SRC6 and not much has changed. I have managed to get a few things figured out, but this switch matrix is driving me nuts. Over half of my switches will activate multiple switches, and not necessarily the even the original switch. No wonder I can't start a game without it immediately tilting. Is it time to look at the other SRC/SRs on the board? Hmm and after getting my other solenoids running; my outhole kicker, right eject and center left eject won't stop firing as soon as put balls into the table. They aren't locking on, they are just firing in some sort of odd sequence. My AC select relay is activating during this.

I spent so much time testing today and haven't found anything conclusive yet. Anyone else have any ideas?

#11 4 years ago

My suggestion would be to get the board sent out to a professional for an evaluation at this point.

#12 4 years ago

Are you getting any fault codes?

#13 4 years ago

No fault codes. All switch and coil diodes checked. All transistors were tested and all the male board connectors were reflowed on each board. All fuses checked. All coils are firing during diagnostics (flashers are a work in progress). But most switches will

At this point I wish I had the money for a new rottendog MPU. Assuming that it's not a playfield error. I guess I can just replace the sr9, 10, 11 and all the transistors.

#14 4 years ago

There is a diode board under the playfield the has some larger diodes on it. They are not mentioned in the manual or any of the guides. Not sure if I can test them like the others, or whether they could be a problem.

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from Gorno:

There is a diode board under the playfield the has some larger diodes on it. They are not mentioned in the manual or any of the guides. Not sure if I can test them like the others, or whether they could be a problem.

This is the diode switching board for the coils. Instead of having the diodes mounted on the coils where they are exposed to harsh vibration, they were moved to this board. Connections to it are indicated on the Solenoid table in the manual under the column "playfield cabinet connections"

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from Gorno:

This is the mess that's on the board currently. Diode tests tomorrow. Hopefully I can figure out why the outhole is firing and hopefully the replacement SRC6 will fix the tilt issues.

Man that is ugly. I have a quick fix in mine as well, but I think yours takes the award. That would have been damn hard to solder in like that. Only a pro tech could have created that monster and make it work. I would have burnt my house down.

#17 4 years ago

I also just noticed the socketed Q46. There's no good reason to socket those transistors, that's just asking for problems and certainly could be a contributor to some weirdness.

#18 4 years ago

Which switches on the matrix are specifically giving you problems?

Looks like the matrix feeds in the U30 and U39, which feed U38. U38 also is responsible for some of the matrix drives as well. I would think that if U38 had a problem that the on board test should catch it

#19 4 years ago

The majority of the switches are giving me a problem. I took SR11 out of the board now, and I am awaiting a new one. So, I can't even tell you exactly which ones.

The previous owner must has socketed 46 and 42. I reflowed the socket and checked the transistors. Both were testing fine. I might replace them if I don't have any luck with the new SR11. I also ordered SR9, SR10, U39, U30 and U40 chips. Just waiting for it to all show up.

Thanks for the replies. I will let you know the results when I get them replaced.

#20 4 years ago

The SR11 did it! So much trouble caused by that little 60¢ resistor pack. No more PCB soldering... For now. At least my soldering skills have vastly improved.

Now I have to figure out all these broken flasher boards, and get my playfield protector on.

#21 4 years ago

Congrats!

#22 4 years ago

Thank you sir. Your invite will be soon!

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from Gorno:

The SR11 did it! So much trouble caused by that little 60¢ resistor pack. No more PCB soldering... For now. At least my soldering skills have vastly improved.
Now I have to figure out all these broken flasher boards, and get my playfield protector on.

Thanks for updating for what solved the issue.

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