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(Topic ID: 149706)

F-14 jet bumper, left sling, and right sling do not work


By Starman

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 31 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by GRUMPY
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 4 years ago

Hello Everyone!
I'm pretty new to this site and a few months back purchased my first pinball machine. I'm hoping somebody can help me with an issue I am having.
I recently removed the ramps and plastics from my pinball and waxed the playfield. I also replaced all the bulbs with new LED bulbs. I ran into an issue with the flashers always being on. I found the thread https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/removing-warming-resistors and soldered the ground from the flash boards. This fixed the flashers always being on issue.

My next issue was that the slingshots and pop bumper did not work. The game displayed error 57 which linked me back to the left sling. I went through and replaced all the fuses on the game even if they were good. Error message 57 no longer displays, but the pop bumper and slings still do not work. I confirmed that neither slingshot nor pop bumper fire during the coil test. They also do not provide any points when I test them.
Any help to resolve this issue will be greatly appreciated.

#2 4 years ago

There are fuses under the playfield too, they are easy to miss. Did you check those?

#3 4 years ago

I found 2 fuses under the playfield and replaced both. I believe they are both 2.5A

#4 4 years ago

You blew a chip out. I had it happen to my f14. It is not a fuse. Contact chris hibler here on the forums he can tell you what chip it is.

#5 4 years ago

I went ahead and sent Chris Hibler a message to find out a little more about this blown chip.
If anyone has any other advise, it would be greatly appreciated!

#6 4 years ago

Those are all special solenoids. Do the upper and lower diverters work, which are also special solenoids?

Also check the fuses rather than just swapping them. Something could be shorted and have blown the new fuse. Check F4 on the power supply which is the fuse for the special solenoids. Check for voltage at the solenoids.

#7 4 years ago

You need to check U-56 or U-50. I fixed a similar issue on my space station. but my issue was none of my special solenoids worked and the issue was on one of thelegs of u50 that control all of u56, so nothing worked.

If you have new chips and they are socketed, replace them. If not you have to start tracing them with a logic probe which is the most sure fire way to fix them. It is unlikely that all transistors are cooked though.

Really though, everyone is right, there is a chip issue you need to resolve first.

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

Those are all special solenoids. Do the upper and lower diverters work, which are also special solenoids?
Also check the fuses rather than just swapping them. Something could be shorted and have blown the new fuse. Check F4 on the power supply which is the fuse for the special solenoids. Check for voltage at the solenoids.

I tested the upper and lower diverters and they all work. I checked the fuses and it looks like the fuse under the playfield near the top blew.
I put in another fuse and it appears that the left sling is always firing.

#9 4 years ago
Quoted from Starman:

I put in another fuse and it appears that the left sling is always firing.

Check the driver transistor for the left sling (pinwiki should have an explanation on transistors, or tell me what type it is and I'll explain how to test--sorry don't have schematics with me at the moment). Should be Q75, you can compare it to Q71.

#10 4 years ago

You could have got the sling switch stuck closed when you put on new rubbers, make sure there's a gap on upper and lower switch.

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

You could have got the sling switch stuck closed when you put on new rubbers, make sure there's a gap on upper and lower switch.

I checked the switches and both appear to be separated.

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

Check the driver transistor for the left sling (pinwiki should have an explanation on transistors, or tell me what type it is and I'll explain how to test--sorry don't have schematics with me at the moment). Should be Q75, you can compare it to Q71.

It looks like the driver transistor is a Q75 for the left and a Q71 for the right. How do I go about testing this driver transistor?

#13 4 years ago

Correct me if i'm wrong Grumpy, but if the driver transistor is firing, the transistors are not the problem, right? The problem is further up in the circuit.

P.S. Starman. Be careful leaving the machine on at all with that fuse in. You risk cooking your coils when they stay locked on. The special coils have a ton of power going through them.

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from boris_37:

Correct me if i'm wrong Grumpy, but if the driver transistor is firing, the transistors are not the problem, right? The problem is further up in the circuit.

Not necessarily. If the driver transistor is shorted then the coil would be on all of the time.

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from boris_37:

Correct me if i'm wrong Grumpy, but if the driver transistor is firing, the transistors are not the problem, right?

Maybe, maybe not. If a coil is locked on the TIP is either shorted or something (predriver, resistor, nor gate or pia) is turning it on, which will ruin the TIP, predriver, coil and diode in a short amount of time.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from Starman:

It looks like the driver transistor is a Q75 for the left and a Q71 for the right. How do I go about testing this driver transistor?

Q75 is a TIP122. You also want to check the pre-driver Q74 (2N4401). See towards the bottom of the following article.

http://pinballrehab.com/1-articles/solid-state-repair/tutorials/120-electronics-tutorial-transistors

#17 4 years ago

http://pinballrehab.com/1-articles/solid-state-repair/tutorials/120-electronics-tutorial-transistors

Nice article Terry, a must read for most people on pinsides. Nice job.

#18 4 years ago

Thank you for the article! There is a ton of good information in there.
I decided to review the switches for the left sling. I took the switch out and did some good cleaning. It looks like this stopped the sling from firing. Possible some wax or other gunk got stuck on the switch. The sling feels a bit weak, but I think that might be due to cooking the coil before the fuse blew.

Thank you everyone who assisted with this thread.
Now I just need to figure out why my topper is blowing another fuse

#19 4 years ago

Glad you got it working.

Quoted from GRUMPY:

Nice article Terry, a must read for most people on pinsides. Nice job.

Thanks grumpy. Here's a link to the index for the electronics tutorial if anyone's interested.

http://pinballrehab.com/1-articles/solid-state-repair/tutorials/147-solid-state-pinball-tutorials

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from Starman:

but I think that might be due to cooking the coil before the fuse blew.

Try replacing the coil sleeve with a new one, if it comes out the coil should be fine.

Now I just need to figure out why my topper is blowing another fuse

Check for shorts on the light sockets.

#21 4 years ago

I got a new motor and realized I wired it incorrectly and that was causing the fuse to blow.

Correct the cables and the bulbs are coming on and the motor tries to spin. But all that happens is the middle light vibrates.

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from Starman:

But all that happens is the middle light vibrates.

That happens if the belts used to rotate the left/right beacons are too tight, or if any of the beacons are a bit seized up.

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from Starman:

But all that happens is the middle light vibrates.

Also if someone puts the wrong (too long) screw in it keeps the reflector from spinning.

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from Snux:

That happens if the belts used to rotate the left/right beacons are too tight

It was the belt that caused the issue. Adjusted the belt and it started spinning.

Is it possible to reduce the voltage from 28v to 12v? I was hoping to install LEDs.

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from Starman:

Is it possible to reduce the voltage from 28v to 12v? I was hoping to install LEDs.

I know Cointaker has some 28v leds that work well for those beacons. Other sources may have them too.

#26 4 years ago
Quoted from action76:

I know Cointaker has some 28v leds that work well for those beacons. Other sources may have them too.

I actually just got a link to their site from a friend of mine. I was hoping to get a red and blue LED to match. However, the sites I have come across only supply white.

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from Starman:

I was hoping to get a red and blue LED to match.

I will check the voltage when I get home, but I think its AC voltage not DC. If its AC voltage, then 28 volt flashers wont work. I have been thinking about doing this for a while but just haven't got around to it yet. If it is AC then a bridge rectifier and a dropping resistor will allow us to use 12 volt flasher and save money and have colored leds too.

#28 4 years ago

As I expected 30 volts AC, so full wave bridge rectifier and you have 42 volts DC. Just need to know how much current the leds draw so I can calulate for the droping resistor.

#29 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

As I expected 30 volts AC, so full wave bridge rectifier and you have 42 volts DC. Just need to know how much current the leds draw so I can calulate for the droping resistor.

I think that might be a little out of my league. Might just have to settle for normal lights.

Still got some issues to take care of before I cause more issues

Hey Grumpy,
any advise on why one of the lights for the blue arrows is out? The wire looks good, tried a different bulb and socket.

#30 4 years ago
Quoted from Starman:

Hey Grumpy,
any advise on why one of the lights for the blue arrows is out? The wire looks good, tried a different bulb and socket.

Are they black twist out sockets, if yes then pull out the green board and reflow the pins and trace out circuit until you find the right diode for that bulb and check it with a DMM. Replace it if its open. Lastly if there divots in the solder trace where the bulb locks onto, then reflow these also.

Quoted from Starman:I think that might be a little out of my league. Might just have to settle for normal lights.

If I do this I will show you how to do it yourself.

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from Starman:

I think that might be a little out of my league. Might just have to settle for normal lights.

This turned out to be real easy. All 3 lamps are in parallel, so the first thing you need to do is check that all 3 sockets are wired the same. Mine were, white was ground and white/blue was positive. At the molex plug you will have one side with two yellows and and the white and the white/blue. The other side of the connector has only the white and the white/blue. Use the side of the connector with the yellow wires. Now a couple inches away from the connector cut the white and the white/blue wires and you need to install a bridge rectifier part# KBP204. The bridge has 4 leads, pos, neg and 2 AC. The wires coming from the lamps need to go on the positive and negative lead of the bridge. Which ever color was on the center lug of the lamp socket is the positive. The two short wires coming from the molex connector go to the AC leads on the bridge. The last thing you have to do is add a 5 to 10 ohm 5 watt droping resistor in series with the bulbs to bring down the voltage to 12 volts. Install this resistor on either the positive or the negative wire going to the lamps. I used color matching Comet 13 led 5050 tower flash bulbs and they look nice.

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