(Topic ID: 115279)

F-14 Displays. Difference between early and late production.


By MrArt2u

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 22 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by lg
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#1 4 years ago

Hello all,

I'm trying to troubleshoot an Early Production F-14 Tomcat with two bad displays (player 2 and 4). I have a spare display board from a later production game that I was hoping to plug in for testing. Is the difference between these two display boards only the size and the way they mount in to the speaker panel? Can I safely plug in and use my later production displays for testing(and possible fabricate a new mounting system)?

Has anyone posted how to troubleshoot and repair these boards? (besides shotgunning in new displays, which I understand is usually what goes out.) I also have a Cyclone in the wings with player 3 and 4 out, I'd like to attempt to repair before I replace.

Thanks in advance,
Art.

#2 4 years ago

Yeah, I think they are just different sizes.

#3 4 years ago

Good to know. The last thing I want is to blow up my good display panel and end up with THREE broken display boards.

I still want to find more information on troubleshooting these display boards. Any tips?

#4 4 years ago

Pin and compatibility wise they are exactly the same.
The early production ones has added 555 sockets to light the speaker panel area so they are physically larger in size.

#5 4 years ago

And the larger size display panel on the early production F-14 models is what costs $350.00 to upgrade to a Pinscore PS-11415-F display.The $350.00 price tag is entirely due to low production number. It is only used on F-14 and Millionaire machines. Where as the later run F-14 models can be fitted with a $199.00 orange Pinscore PS-11610 display (other colors available if you want to pay extra). Also, Rottendog makes one for $150.00. Unless you want to unsolder and turn all the pin headers around and re solder them, you need the Pinscore PS-11415-F display on an early run F14.

Post edited by StylesBitchly: updated info

#6 4 years ago
Quoted from StylesBitchly:

And the larger size display panel on the early production F-14 models is what costs $350.00 to upgrade to a Pinscore PS-11415-F display if you want to. Where as the later run F-14 models can be fitted with a $160.00 Pinscore PS-11610 display in you choice of colors! Unless you want to unsolder and turn all the pin headers around and re solder them. Then it may fit the early run F-14. The $350.00 price tag is entirely due to low production number. It is only used on F-14 and Millionaire machines.

Is there a documented process anywhere for this? I have an Millionaire with that setup and well... don't want it, lol.

I may have the same problem on F-14 and probably don't want that either.

**edit*

Went to check my F-14. version 554 #99457. . Someone put a "new" one in there that seems like it was working (they said in masking tape one of the panels doesn't work). One day I might try it when i get all the board back in and the wires hooked up. By far my worst machine.

#7 4 years ago

At the moment, the pinwiki site doesn't have a whole lot of information on getting down and dirty with the displays. This should be useful though.....

http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wms11/index3.htm#display

I guess you tried the usual things like pulling the cables off and putting them back on again, or giving them a "wiggle"? The displays do go bad, but worth checking the above link first

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from StylesBitchly:

And the larger size display panel on the early production F-14 models is what costs $350.00 to upgrade to a Pinscore PS-11415-F display if you want to. Where as the later run F-14 models can be fitted with a $160.00 Pinscore PS-11610 display in you choice of colors! Unless you want to unsolder and turn all the pin headers around and re solder them. Then it may fit the early run F-14. The $350.00 price tag is entirely due to low production number. It is only used on F-14 and Millionaire machines.

Were you able to fit the smaller, later production display board in your early production F-14? Is that where the unsoldering and turning the pin headers around comes in? I haven't been in there yet to investigate, I'm hoping to find the time tomorrow night.

#9 4 years ago

Display boards are fairly easy to troubleshoot.

Refering to the display schematic.

U5, U1, U6, U2, U13, U12 and U9 are simply drivers for the displays - converts low voltage to high voltage to drive them. If you have a signal going in, it wil drive the corresponding segment.

U13 = player 1 & 2 display (extra characters), U12 = player 1 & 2 display (numeric characters only), U9 = player 3 & 4 display. U13, U12 and U9 are driven by non-inverting buffers for the inputs to the drivers (voltage in = voltage out).

U5, U1, U6 and U2 basically control which display is being updated.

U3, U4 ,U7, U8 are a TTL logic buffered NOR gate (datasheet here: https://www.fairchildsemi.com/datasheets/CD/CD4011BC.pdf ) NOR gate truth table here: http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Projects/CAL/digital-logic/gatesfunc/index.html#norgate

Basically if you have both inputs low you will get a high output, so for U8, pin 12 and 13 have to be low to geta high output on pin 11.

So measure voltage at each input and see if the output corresponds - if not bad chip (make sure you check the voltage supply is present on the IC's as well).

You also need to check to make sure you have high voltage for the displays as well: R10, R12, R14 and R17 should have +90v while R11, R13, R15 and R16 should have -100v.

Hopefully that makes some sense.

#10 4 years ago

No, I haven't done this. There is a thread here on Pinside all about it and that was the solution for fitting the less expensive PS-11610 display into an early run F14.
The problem is that the less expensive PS-11610 display's wiring connectors hit the H channel below the translite. The only way to fit it without setting the display LED's farther back from the speaker grill window, is to reverse the wire connectors.
I am afraid to drop the money on a display only to void the warranty and find out the soldering is not achievable. Some solder points are quite small.

Post edited by StylesBitchly: updated info

#11 4 years ago

LongJohns
Are the U chips driving my pinscore as well. I am having intermittent LED segments on Player 1 and 2 windows. Or is this a problem with the Pinscore display board?

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from StylesBitchly:

LongJones
Are the U chips driving my pinscore as well. I am having intermittent LED segments on Player 1 and 2 windows. Or is this a problem with the Pinscore display board?

Sorry not familiar with the pinscore display.

The U chips I mentioned above are located on the original scoreboard - if you replaced the OEM board with a pinscore one, then you don't have those chips (they would be using some other driver chips for LED's). I would guess you have a problem with the pinscore unit.

#13 4 years ago

There is a thread here on Pinside all about fitting the less expensive PS-11610 display into an early run F14.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/early-model-f-14-display-question

#14 4 years ago

Thanks for that link. I don't know why it didn't come up when I searched. It answered a bunch of questions, and even introduced me to the problem of the replacement displays being so far back from the speaker panel.

I'm still hoping to troubleshoot my original. The missing displays definitely have voltage so, next I'll follow LongJohn's notes above to see if it's a chip. I understand the glass goes bad too so I'll probably be looking for some of those at some point.

I was able to get some games in on this new-to-me F-14 and, other than the displays, wow, it plays great! Can't wait to get it all dialed in.

#15 4 years ago

I would just buy the Rottendog display (your choice of colors for $150.00). Big Daddy has them. People have mounted these using a simple home made bracket and the display only sits back from the speaker panel glass about 3/4". 1/2" if you move a capacitor to the back side of display. Not a problem according to one guy I talked to. FYI, the $350.00 Pinscore for early F14 also sits back from the window about 1/4".

Post edited by StylesBitchly: updated info

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from StylesBitchly:

Glad your having better luck than me.
So far this early run F14 I bought is a money pit! Everything is a big PITA and no simple fixes. I'll be pissed if I have to buy another display. It was the pinscore display that made me buy it. Then it takes a shit 2 months into ownership and I can't get any answers.

Didn't PinScore Displays come with a 5 year warranty, or are you outside of that time frame?

Pretty sure Marco covers the Displays even if you're not the original purchaser as long as you can verify their age being under 5 years. There should be a date stamp on them somewhere.

Best of luck !!

Pin - K

#17 4 years ago

I have contacted Pinscore via email yesterday and waiting for reply. I don't know if it was purchased from Marco

#18 4 years ago

Well, I did call Marco and they said that the warranty is not transferable. Original owner only.

1 week later
#19 4 years ago

Hey Look!
A cheaper option than Pinscore for early run F14. And probably better quality!

XPin XP-WMS11415-F

$239.00

http://www.xpinpinball.com/shop/product/xp-wms11415-f

#20 4 years ago

I saw those at the Banning Expo! Met the guy behind X-pin (Brett?) and we talked about them. For an added fee he can special make it in different colors too. He didn't have any with him (he brought one, sold one right away) but he offered to ship me one at a show price. It was early in the weekend and I told him I'd have to think about it, well, fast forward to getting on the freeway as we're driving away and me kicking myself for not taking him up on the offer!

I do like X-pin's quality so that's still an option. Gotta make sure this game is a keeper for us so getting the rest of the gameplay 100% comes before new displays.

Thanks for the heads up!
Art

2 years later
#21 2 years ago

I know it's late in posting this, but my Pinscore problems with digit segments not illuminating intermittently was caused by power source putting out low voltage on the 5 volt rail.

1 year later
#22 1 year ago
Quoted from StylesBitchly:

I know it's late in posting this, but my Pinscore problems with digit segments not illuminating intermittently was caused by power source putting out low voltage on the 5 volt rail.

Was this on the power board?

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