(Topic ID: 18015)

External sub on Sterns - How to help please?

By Nevus

11 years ago


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  • 65 posts
  • 30 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by MontyB
  • Topic is favorited by 33 Pinsiders

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    There are 65 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 11 years ago

    Would any of you with external subs on their game (like tron recently) please post a pic and short h
    explanation of your attachment/wiring?

    I have pet project I'm working on and it would be helpful. A friend of mine that builds speakers says that depending on how a sub is attached to a game, you could damage both the pin and the sub.

    Thank you

    #2 11 years ago

    I just added RCA jacks and soldered the leads to the speakers in the games.
    I can unplug the sub and move it to the game we are playing.

    #3 11 years ago

    On the Stern SAM games they don't have a line level out but if that is what you need you have to add a header pin to the AOR or AOL solder pads on the uper right area of the CPU/Sound board. (Be VERY careful if you do this and don't do it if you're not comfortable with a soldering iron) That is your positive and grab ground from that board and that is your ground. feed those two into an RCA jack or wire and feed it into a sub with a crossover. I do this with several games fed into a mixer that outputs into a single home theatre sub. Works great!

    -2
    #4 11 years ago

    It's very simple. Strip both ends of the speaker wire. Lift the play field and wrap the stripped ends of the speaker wire around the terminals the wires are hooked to on the sub in the cab.

    If you like it and you want to dab a bit of solder on it, that's fine too.

    Hook the other end of the speaker wire into the sub.

    You can get fancier, but try that and see how you like it.

    Depending how it's hooked up it can damage the game is quite vague, you aren't going to damage a thing.

    #5 11 years ago

    def need a line out signal, if you tap into the amplified signal going straight to the speaker in the cab...and run into the input of your powered or unpowered sub, kiss the input section of your sub good bye. You are loading down the output section for the pin speakers with greater resistance load shortening its life.

    The trick is finding the line out signal before it hits the amp on the sound board. ShinyNick's suggestion is much more safe. AND CHEAP!

    The ONLY time I can see tapping off the speaker of an amp is by use of a "passive direct insertion box." just to get that unique sound of the amplifer (I'm refering to tube guitar amps) but thats a non issue here. It adds a transformer isolation to prevent electrical mismatches, but tend to be expensive for a quality one.

    #6 11 years ago

    if you have speaker level inputs on your sub, it can be as simple as this:
    1) Hook Speaker Wire to Pinball Cabinet Speaker
    2) Hook Other End to Speaker Level Inputs on the Sub
    3) Enjoy!

    If you only have line level RCA inputs on your sub, it can be as simple as this:
    1) Hook Speaker Wire to Pinball Cabinet Speaker
    2) Hook Other End to Speaker Level Inputs to Line-level converter
    3) Run RCA inputs from the Line-level converter to the Sub.
    4) Enjoy!

    Note: This won't work on AC/DC and a handful of WPC-era pins, I forget which ones but you can search RGP and find out posts by TheKorn that talk about which and why.

    -Wes

    #7 11 years ago
    Quoted from copperpot:

    Note: This won't work on AC/DC and a handful of WPC-era pins

    And how does it work on an AC/DC?

    #8 11 years ago

    I soldered the Extra speaker wires to the cab- Sub on AC/DC ,, Gold to Red ,, Ran the wires thru the screen in the back Right and hook the wires into the 100w self Powered Sub ,, Gold to Red..
    Bring's any Pin to Life ...

    AC-DC_5_006.JPGAC-DC_5_006.JPG AC-DC_5_009.JPGAC-DC_5_009.JPG AC-DC_5_007.JPGAC-DC_5_007.JPG

    #9 11 years ago

    attach alligator clips on the speaker wire and clip them to the sub.

    #10 11 years ago
    Quoted from BLACK_ROSE:

    I soldered the Extra speaker wires to the cab- Sub on AC/DC ,, Gold to Red ,, Ran the wires thru the screen in the back Right and hook the wires into the 100w self Powered Sub ,, Gold to Red..Bring's any Pin to Life ...

    NICE! I see your powered sub has inputs for high powered signals, in the pro audio world such interfaces like that are uncommon without transformer isolation ( to prevent ground loop hum) plus its safer for equipment that way. Guess the home audio and pro audio worlds deal with the connections differently. Being a recording engineer at a recording studio if my manager ever saw something like that I'd get yelled at haha!

    #11 11 years ago
    Quoted from pinbill_blocked:

    attach alligator clips on the speaker wire and clip them to the sub.

    This is what I did.. less permanent and easy to remove if I need to move the game.

    #12 11 years ago
    Quoted from BLACK_ROSE:

    I soldered the Extra speaker wires to the cab- Sub on AC/DC ,, Gold to Red ,, Ran the wires thru the screen in the back Right and hook the wires into the 100w self Powered Sub ,, Gold to Red..
    Bring's any Pin to Life ...

    Quoted from Pinwiz1985:

    def need a line out signal, if you tap into the amplified signal going straight to the speaker in the cab...and run into the input of your powered or unpowered sub, kiss the input section of your sub good bye. You are loading down the output section for the pin speakers with greater resistance load shortening its life.
    The trick is finding the line out signal before it hits the amp on the sound board. ShinyNick's suggestion is much more safe. AND CHEAP!
    The ONLY time I can see tapping off the speaker of an amp is by use of a "passive direct insertion box." just to get that unique sound of the amplifer (I'm refering to tube guitar amps) but thats a non issue here. It adds a transformer isolation to prevent electrical mismatches, but tend to be expensive for a quality one.

    So I buyed a Polk 110 Sub and conected it to the cabin sub of my AC/DC just like Black Rose did it. And oh man what a difference, the sound is fantastic. This game is made for an external sub.

    But now I read Pinwiz1985 post, and he says that this way I would shorten the life of the input section, so did I wrong?
    A friend of mine who is better with audiosystems told me, that I had connected the external sub parallel to my cabinet speaker and so I am going from 8 Ohm to 4 Ohm and that this coud be dangerous.

    Is there an other way for the AC/DC pin to hook a external sub to it? I don't want to play without now that I heard how good it could sound. But I don't want to overload something.

    #13 11 years ago

    Yr borrowing the Sound signal , The amp on the External Sub- does it's Own thing to Produce the Awesome Loudness .. Noth-n is being Sent back to the Sound Board !!! Plus , my RCA 100w Sub-woofer Powers itself OFF after 5 min's- of Non Use, weather the Pin is On or Off ... But Use Yr Own Gut Feel-n !!

    #14 11 years ago

    I used 16 gauge speaker wire and connected it to the bottom cabinet speaker.Then ran wire though bottom speaker mesh and pluged wires to sub-woofer speaker IN port red /black. Sounds best if you use original cabinet speaker and the powered sub.

    100_0018.JPG100_0018.JPG

    #16 11 years ago

    Ok guys^^ and thanks.

    #17 11 years ago
    Quoted from Asael:

    So I buyed a Polk 110 Sub and conected it to the cabin sub of my AC/DC just like Black Rose did it. And oh man what a difference, the sound is fantastic. This game is made for a external sub.
    But now I read Pinwiz1985 post, and he says that this way I would shorten the life of the input section, so did I wrong?A friend of me who is better with audiosystems told me, that I had connected the external sub parallel to my cabinet speaker and so I am going from 8 Ohm to 4 Ohm and that is dangerous.
    Is there an other way for the AC/DC pin to hook a external sub to it? I don't want to play without now that I heard how good it could sound. But I don't want to overload something.

    Yes your friend is correct you are loading down the output section of your cabinet woofer down more than maybe it should be. The amplifier on the sound board will see a 4 ohm load instead of an 8 ohm load when in a parallel circuit. When we say a speaker is rated 4 or 8 ohms thats a nominal range. Ohm's actually changes by frequency. So bass frequencies are lower than 8 ohms, and lower than 4 ohms in the circuit you have. This will cause the IC amplifier to run hotter/fail because of the lower resistance to ground, same for the speaker voice coil which heats up and degrades performance.

    I don't know how well Stern made their IC circuits on the circuit board but in the pro audio industry 4 ohms is the lowest an amplifier should see, while some amps are capable of driving a 2 ohm load, the amp runs hotter and audio quality suffers due to an audio physics term called damping factor (measurement of how well the amp controls the motion of the speaker.) I don't want to get to technical here, but just know you are compromising the design parameters of what the amp on the board was designed to do by parallel connecting the sub's input to the cab speaker terminals.

    For your purposes, I dont think a small IC amp can handle anything more than what it was designed for at 8 ohms. If you do run it at a 4 ohm load, it will most certainly shorten its life. I've seen output transistors get red hot and explode, when they arrive at the shop in the studio I have the task of putting the magic smoke back in the amp.

    For bally S&T boards, here is the IC that runs the mono speaker...

    http://circuits.datasheetdir.com/271/TDA2003-pinout.jpg

    Connect the tip to pin one and the sleeve to pin 3. This will tap the audio input before the amp and not load down the output section. It will have much less gain but you can adjust it on most subs anyway. I don't have specs on Stern's sound boards, but if you can locate the IC amp and its pinout configuration, it should be pretty straight forward connecting up an external sub, which honestly some games should already come setup for a line out anyway.

    #18 11 years ago

    Thanks Shiny and Pinwiz. I know there are some issue with ohms and damaging the pin but I did not have the technical knowledge or the vocabulary to ask the question. No offense meant to all of those that just tapped the speakers, but a trusted friend suggested I should not do that.

    I am looking to run my ACDC sound through a small tube amp that happens to have a 1/8" input for iPods etc. It not really for the sound but for the effect and look with the acdc machine. As a bonus, that small amp could be run safely into a speaker cabinet to make a nice loud sound if I so desired. I have contacted the pinnovations guys that make a headphone jack for new sterns, it's not the exact product I need, but I think they will be able to make product for me. As for a marketable item, that's another question. It seem unlikely that many would pay for this when that can use alligator clips etc... Just my thoughts etc.

    Thanks for all the replies.

    #19 11 years ago

    I like that idea of the tube amp guitar amp, the 1/8 input is like a jam-a-long input, would suite your needs well...but you may run into ground loop hum (grounded plug on pin and grounded plug on amp) A simple $20 radioshack ground loop isolator would fix that problem if you did run into it.

    -1
    #20 11 years ago

    Thanks. I'm hoping to use the new Fender Greta. I just got it and The paint matches the ACDC Premium. It's a funky little thing but fun.

    #21 11 years ago

    I'm not convinced that running the external powered sub shows up as a full 8 ohm load to the original driving amplifier. I'll stick a meter on mine and see. I guess there are a couple ways around this with out tapping into the circuit boards. What about routing the speaker level input first to the ext sub then from the ext sub output to the original speaker? The sub is actually made for this.

    Another option is to wire the external sub in series rather than in parallel. But I'm not convinced this is necessary.

    #22 11 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    I'm not convinced that running the external powered sub shows up as a full 8 ohm load to the original driving amplifier.

    A powered sub hooked up in parallel to a Speaker Level signal won't draw the full 8 ohms, you are right, I'd be interested to see what kind of load it would take.

    You WILL drive your amp to produce more wattage and it will run hotter, but you aren't going to blow the amp unless you really crank the speakers way higher than standard listening volume.

    #23 11 years ago

    OK I hooked up the ohm meter. Without the external sub hooked up, the 12" in the cabinet registers about 10.2 ohms. With the external sub hooked up, it still registers 10.2 ohms. The 8 ohm speakers in the cabinet register exactly 8 ohms but the wires are in series so it registers 16 ohms to the amp. I replaced those with car speakers, 2 of them, rated at 4 ohms wired in series for an 8 ohm load. I believe the only reason they originally had it in series at 16 ohms was so that the cabinet speaker would be louder.

    So bottom line, there is an insignificant impedance draw at the amp by running a powered sub hooked up in parallel to the 12" in the cabinet. I wouldn't (and won't) worry about it at all. I ran it at 54 hooked up this way for several hours. Sure was loud. I since lowered it to 50 just because it was too loud compared to other games.

    I will say, I am normally a supporter of using the internal subs such as FF and pinball pro. But in the case of AC/DC, that 12" does a fantastic job of reproducing the mid bass and even up to the low mids range such as snare drum snaps. Even with the improved 4" coaxials in the backbox, you still lose something if you limit that 12" in the cabinet to only sub bass. Therefore, I'm leaving this external sub hooked up in this case only.

    #24 11 years ago

    Markmon, do you have a transformer in line with the speaker hookup, or the inputs of the sub are transformer balanced? (and not electronically balanced?) If they are transformer balanced then your readings would make sense. Its "galvanically" isolated from the powered speaker terminals, and the step up transformer sets the correct level for the speaker input.

    Two speakers in series gives a higher ohm rating of 16 ohms, so the amp needs to have sufficient wattage to push two speakers @ 16 ohms. Say you load the amp with two speakers at 8 ohms total load off the same amp, its going to push more wattage to those speakers due to the lower resistance, thus making it run hotter. If its not rated at 8 ohms it will fail. Maybe not immediately but it will eventually

    I can see the novelty of adding more speakers to a game to hear more sound, however, like most any products, they have power, thermal, and SPL limitations. They were not designed to run extra speakers without stressing out the components, if they were meant for expandability the manufacture would have made it easier to interface such components, though in my case "MacGyvering" stuff is always much more fun!

    The best way to add extra speakers, or control the stock speakers more appropriately is to
    - solder a line out jack off the sound board before the onboard amplifier
    - add a quality 3 way crossover (5 way if its stereo) (sub, mid L/R, High L/R)
    - separate amplifier channels for each speaker rated at 65% to 80% of its PROGRAM POWER HANDLING (The only exception to this rule is the tweeters which need to be run at PEAK POWER HANDLING)

    Hope this helps everyone, hate to have something damaged by connecting off the stock speaker terminals, and if the machine is under warrenty too, makes it more merky to do such a setup and have any potential damage covered under it.

    #25 11 years ago
    Quoted from Pinwiz1985:

    For bally S&T boards, here is the IC that runs the mono speaker...
    http://circuits.datasheetdir.com/271/TDA2003-pinout.jpg
    Connect the tip to pin one and the sleeve to pin 3. This will tap the audio input before the amp and not load down the output section. It will have much less gain but you can adjust it on most subs anyway

    Great info Pinwiz!

    Which IC # is that TDA2003 on my Bally S/T ? I have a -61a if it matters. I don't have the board infront of me but will definitely look into hooking up this way.

    #26 11 years ago

    EDIT!!!!

    It should be the one with the large heat sync on it, bottom right hand corner, above the power regulator. There is an inverting and non-inverting input lead. It is an inverting amplifier. If it was a NON inverting type IC then directions would be different. Without getting TOO technical.

    The audio input of the sound board will go to a resistor--->op amp input. So tapping for the tip of the phono jack BEFORE the resistor R1 and op amp will work. The value of the resistor determines the gain to the cabinet speaker. So the non inverting input should be grounded, while the inverting input is the input lead (and tip of your line out jack plus a ground sleeve)

    EDIT: here is the info to back up my claims. Sorry for the confusion, didnt realize it was an inverting differential amplifier for the 61A instead of a non inverting type.

    http://www.technologystudent.com/elec1/opamp2.htm
    http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/mastascu/elessonsHTML/OpAmps/OpAmp2.html#Wiring%20the%20inverter

    #27 11 years ago
    Quoted from Pinwiz1985:

    if you tap into the amplified signal going straight to the speaker in the cab...and run into the input of your powered or unpowered sub, kiss the input section of your sub good bye.

    That's only true if you run to the low level (usually RCA plug) input on a sub. If the sub has a high (speaker level) input they'll be fine.

    Quoted from copperpot:

    Note: This won't work on AC/DC and a handful of WPC-era pins, I forget which ones but you can search RGP and find out posts by TheKorn that talk about which and why.

    It'll still work on ACDC, it just might not be optimal. On the pro's, no problem. On the LE's, Stern added a 6DB crossover, which will not exactly play nicely as it's engineered assuming the woofer is in circuit. To really do it RIGHT, you need to go before that crossover. (Should be a coil right near the cab speaker, but I haven't looked inside an LE for a while.) No idea what they did in the premium.

    Early WPCs (BoP, FH) this method is more miss than hit due to the rudimentary crossover and the wiring. (Big technical reason omitted, for now.)

    Quoted from Asael:

    But now I read Pinwiz1985 post, and he says that this way I would shorten the life of the input section, so did I wrong?
    A friend of mine who is better with audiosystems told me, that I had connected the external sub parallel to my cabinet speaker and so I am going from 8 Ohm to 4 Ohm and that this coud be dangerous.

    You'll be fine. If your sub has a high (speaker) level input, it's designed to present a VERY high impedance. The upshot is that it adds almost no load, so you wind up with whatever impedance you had there before.

    If your sub does not have an amplifier in it (i.e. essentially a box and a speaker, with no power connection) then that doesn't apply.

    Quoted from Pinwiz1985:

    Yes your friend is correct you are loading down the output section of your cabinet woofer down more than maybe it should be.

    Theoretically yes, but functionally no. High level converters are designed to present an impedance anywhere from the high hundred-thousands to several meg ohms, depending on the manufacturer. Since the formula for impedance in parallel is 1 / ((1/R1) + (1/R2) + (1/R3) + ...), the numbers work out like this:

    1/ (( 1 / 8 ) + (1 / 4M)) = 1 / (1/8.00000025) ~= 8

    Quoted from Pinwiz1985:

    For your purposes, I dont think a small IC amp can handle anything more than what it was designed for at 8 ohms. If you do run it at a 4 ohm load, it will most certainly shorten its life.

    For SAM, the output transistors are TDA2030As (same as WPC-95), which are specced to be just fine running into 4 ohms.

    Pre-SAM they used other chips that aren't quite as beefy, such as MB3730As.

    Quoted from Nevus:

    I am looking to run my ACDC sound through a small tube amp that happens to have a 1/8" input for iPods etc.

    That's looking for a headphone level input, which is more-or-less compatible with line level. (They're not exactly the same, but usually close enough.) See earlier about hacking your board to get a line level output. Alternatively, you can use a high-to-low level converter (speaker to line level converter), available on amazon, and tap off the speaker like everyone else is doing. Not my favorite way of doing things, but it works.

    Post edited by TheKorn : stupid auto smiley made "eight-parenthasees" into something.

    #28 11 years ago

    @pinwiz: The acdc sound chip is the same tda2030 used in other SAM games. The back box being wired in series at 16 ohms can safely be brought down to 4 ohms on this chip. Mine is running 8 ohms. Zero danger.

    As for the sub. It can also be running at 4 ohms. The cheap 8" stern subs are 4 ohm speakers. The current load on my sub line right now is about 10 ohm. The speaker level inputs on a powered sub are made for this type of use and do not add any sort of extra load to the amp. That's what I tried to explain the first time and my measurements backed it up.

    Therefore, it's very easy to add a powered external sub. Simply solder a speaker wire from each terminal of the cabinet sub and run it into high level or speaker input on the powered sub. If your powered sub only has line level input then you need to hack the board as you stated. Otherwise you do not.

    This does not add any extra stain to the stern sound chips. In other games they are driven with 4 ohm loads. Here the load is much higher so it's much easier on the amp chip. It's totally safe to run.

    #29 11 years ago

    @ Markmon

    I stand corrected. I still maintain that it is not my ideal way of audio interface but measurements and numbers do make sense. My training as a sound tech has always told me don't overload amp output sections if it can be helped. Different strokes for different folks, long as it doesnt harm anything its a viable option. All the best!

    #30 11 years ago

    Thanks to all, very good posts and explanations here.

    Now I let the external sub be hooked to the cabinet speaker. Everybody should try it once. The effect for a game like AC/DC is spectacular!

    #31 11 years ago

    Very useful thread. Thanks to all.

    If someone with a LE/premium can locate the 6db crossover Korn referenced please u/l a pic. Otherwise when I get back in town I'll do it.

    #32 11 years ago
    Quoted from mrbillishere:

    Very useful thread. Thanks to all.
    If someone with a LE/premium can locate the 6db crossover Korn referenced please u/l a pic. Otherwise when I get back in town I'll do it.

    The crossover is a little cap on the left speaker in the backbox.

    #33 11 years ago

    Pictures please when anyone does this?

    #34 11 years ago

    I may try this on my AC/DC sometime. Since you guys seem to like it so much. Is there really a big difference on the premiums that already have the 12" sub in them. My powered sub is only 10" I believe, so not sure if it will help much.

    #35 11 years ago
    Quoted from Arcade:

    I may try this on my AC/DC sometime. Since you guys seem to like it so much. Is there really a big difference on the premiums that already have the 12" sub in them. My powered sub is only 10" I believe, so not sure if it will help much.

    Big improvement!!! Try it, you will like it.

    #36 11 years ago
    Quoted from Asael:

    Big improvement!!! Try it, you will like it.

    Well. That is certainly all the encouragement I need.
    Thanks.

    #37 11 years ago
    Quoted from Arcade:

    I may try this on my AC/DC sometime. Since you guys seem to like it so much. Is there really a big difference on the premiums that already have the 12" sub in them. My powered sub is only 10" I believe, so not sure if it will help much.

    So to get bass out of that cabinet 12" you will need to put a low pass crossover on it and crank up the volume afterwards. Unfortunately if you do that, you lose a ton of the mids. That 12" runs full range. If you add the powered sub you'll notice some very deep bass. Also replacing the back box speakers with decent coax 4" and cutting their little cap crossover out of the circuit helped a lot with the highs.

    5 months later
    #38 11 years ago

    What gauge wire are you guys using? I have 12 and it seems to almost be too big. I'm also an igit on this stuff.

    Installed a sub on my IM today and not noticing a big difference. I have a feeling I did not solder good or did something else stupid. First time soldering - whoo hoo. I suck at it but I like cheering nonetheless.

    #39 11 years ago

    No expert here, but 12 Gauge is overkill, ( unless your sub is 100 feet away). I think you'd be fine with 16 or 18. Less if your using line level.I just replaced all the speakers and placed a sub into my NF last night, its a new game now.

    http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/suggestions-or-thoughts-on-replacement-speakers

    #40 11 years ago
    Quoted from badbilly27:

    What gauge wire are you guys using? I have 12 and it seems to almost be too big. I'm also an igit on this stuff.
    Installed a sub on my IM today and not noticing a big difference. I have a feeling I did not solder good or did something else stupid. First time soldering - whoo hoo. I suck at it but I like cheering nonetheless.

    Is it a internal sub, or an external powered?

    #41 11 years ago
    Quoted from bigduke6:

    Is it a internal sub, or an external powered?

    External this guy: Dayton Audio SUB-1200 12" 120 Watt Powered Subwoofer

    I hear the louder bass but I'm not being blown away.

    #42 11 years ago

    I've had a sunfire junior on my Theatre of Magic for 10 years now and have never had any issues.

    I have an external sub on all my pins and love it!

    #43 11 years ago

    Ok, thats funny. I literally just hooked that exact sub up to my lotr and T2 Monday! Did you hook from the cab speaker to the high level inputs on the sub? ( the inputs that you can put speaker wire in). That sub booms!

    #44 11 years ago
    Quoted from bigduke6:

    Ok, thats funny. I literally just hooked that exact sub up to my lotr and T2 Monday! Did you hook from the cab speaker to the high level inputs on the sub? ( the inputs that you can put speaker wire in). That sub booms!

    LOL. What gauge wire did you use? I soldered the 12 gauge wire to the IM cabinet speaker and into the high level inputs.

    #45 11 years ago

    I used 18. I just used alligator clips to the cab speaker. That way if you move or sell the pin, just unclip and go. Did you play with the crossover and gain settings? That sub is more than enough. It should rock.

    #46 11 years ago

    I did play with the gain and crossover settings including that 180 degree button. Maybe my soldering connection wasn't good. I may remove and try the alligator clips. Can you send a pic how you used the clips?

    #47 11 years ago

    This worked for me. A little low tech, but hey...

    IMG_3035.jpgIMG_3035.jpg

    #48 11 years ago
    Quoted from badbilly27:

    I hear the louder bass but I'm not being blown away.

    I would think a powerful sub like that should make a huge difference in the amount of bass you are hearing. Double check your connections. Make sure they are solid and that it is not wired out of phase. I never looked very closely at the cabinet speaker in my Sterns. Is there an easy way to tell which connector is the positive and which is the negative?

    #49 11 years ago

    With that exact sub I'm my Lotr, when the vuk kicks the ball out of the shire, you can almost here it outside. It's definately not weak. I would make sure you have good connections. Being out of phase, you would still have a thump going on.

    #50 11 years ago

    I just replaced my home sub with a bigger 12” sub.
    So I have an extra Polk 110 Sub this now going on my AC/DC Pro.
    After reading this I can’t wait to try it out.

    There are 65 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

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