(Topic ID: 235242)

Exporting / Ripping MIDI (or instructions) from Game Roms

By Rdoyle1978

5 years ago


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  • 27 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Rdoyle1978
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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    #1 5 years ago

    Hi all -

    I am interested in updating the music on several older games - what I want to do is extract the music instructions (preferably to MIDI) from some older DE and System 9/11 games. I'm curious if there's a utility which already does this. Can I pull the music or chipset instructions somehow? If I can get that, I can upgrade the music and produce higher-quality music for these games using the same arrangements, but better sounding instruments.

    I know about M1 and PinMame, but these appear to just output .wav files, which is not what I want.

    thanks!

    #3 5 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    https://www.pinsound.org
    You could try that and their forums to see how the re-orchistrate the music.

    Thanks - i am sure familiar with pinSound, but unfortunately this basically just works to the same end as doing the M1 route. and I'm finding pinsound doesn't appear to work on Sega/DE R2 games, which may make all this moot anyway.

    #7 5 years ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    David Thiel did the sound for Secret Service and Torpedo Alley and has done recent stuff for JJP. Try reaching out to him.
    You might find the data sheets for the audio chips useful. The schematic for Time Machine shows Yamaha YM3012 and YM2151.
    http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/gottlieb/technical/datasheets/YM2151_datasheet.pdf
    https://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/download.php?id=4dd2ad957275a76074d8a7236f1f09d3646083&type=M&term=YM3012

    Awesome! Thanks for those links -

    2 weeks later
    #10 5 years ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    The old williams games aren't midi, that's for sure. Shouldn't be too hard to make an arduino play it, it's triggered very basically with some driver transistors (sys 4-6) and a PIA output (system 7).
    For the games that don't have background sounds, even easier, you don't have to worry about providing a way to ramp up the speed/pitch of the background.... just wait for your trigger and play the wav file.

    I don't think any games are actually driven with MIDI, but many of the sound boards from back then have their instructions mapped to middleware which can output the resultant instructions in MIDI. I'm just not familiar enough with the DE sound boards to know if it's something off the shelf or proprietary - I still need to read through those links. This type of effort (if it even exists or could exist) would alleviate some of the concerns Chris Granner has with the PinSound board, and get the benefit of that board - i.e. still get higher quality sounds played live using samples or VSTs.

    I mean this is potentially a huge effort, but I am willing to bet a lot of the legwork is done, it's now a matter of stitching things together. I have no clue how these old boards work, but I know MIDI and general sound design very well, so mapping it to that made the most sense.

    #12 5 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    I've heard of WAV to MIDI conversion tools, so the easiest approach might be to record the output as a sound file, and then run it through the conversion software.

    I wish - those are a nightmare unfortunately. They work ok if you have a single instrument (which I think applies here), but they're just crappy glitch-fests. At least the ones I've used. There's got to be a way to do this in Visual Pinball; somehow they are converting those instructions into sounds the computer can create!

    #14 5 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    I was thinking that the conversion software might have an easier time with the simpler music of early solid state games.
    I know there's no hope if you're trying to convert a full orchestral piece.

    You're probably right - I may just try it out. I have Reaper and Propellerheads Reason which both have ways to do this. let's see what happens...

    #16 5 years ago
    Quoted from RatShack:

    You need to export to a .VGM file using M1 or similar emulator. The VGM file format is basically a dump of raw data written to the sound chips. From a VGM file you might be able to convert it to MIDI with a conversion tool, I've had some success ripping notes from NES music. It will give you the pitches and you need to figure out the note durations yourself.
    Since you're interested in System 11, here's a rip of Black Knight 2000:
    https://vgmrips.net/packs/pack/black-knight-2000-williams-system-11b

    Killer! Thx

    1 year later
    #24 3 years ago
    Quoted from mystman12:

    So I asked about this on VPforums and a developer working on PinMAME actually went ahead and added support for creating VGM files! You can try it with the latest beta found here: https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=27063&p=456542 There are a few limitations (Notably that non-FM drums and voices are missing), but overall this is way more powerful for ripping pinball music than anything we've had before. Note that I was only able to get the VGMrip functionality to work by opening PinMAME through the command line. Once you get VGM ripping set up, you can use PinMAME's sound command mode (F4) to play literally any sound or piece of music in a game.
    You can use VGMTools to do a lot with these files. A bunch can be found here, but there are others scattered around the internet: https://vgmrips.net/wiki/VGM_Tools (Most notably VGMPlay, which I'm not sure is included in this pack)
    I'm using this functionality to get the FM Synth instrument presets to make my own music with, since System 11 and pre-DCS WPC games have some fantastic presets I wanted to get my hands on.
    I've also messed around with VGMPlay's features, mainly the ability to export waves and isolate individual channels. This might be what rdoyle1978 is looking for since it makes recreating music pretty easy since you can clearly hear every individual note this way.

    Wow! This is miles beyond what we were able to do before. Since most of the music on the games I'm thinking of is fairly monophonic, it might not be all that hard to do an audio-to-midi conversion. Easy to clean up.

    #27 3 years ago
    Quoted from Axl:

    Melodyne does audio midi conversion extremely good. You do need to clean up the midi track though. and its pricey...

    heck yes it is! But it is certainly worth it if you're doing a lot of music stuff. And it's WAAAY better than AutoTune

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