(Topic ID: 128656)

"Value" and "Not So Much Value" Top 20 Pins w/Pinside Data


By altan

4 years ago



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  • 26 posts
  • 20 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by ForceFlow
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    PriceRating.png
    prices.png

    #1 4 years ago

    I took the top 20 pins and plotted them using (ranking,price). This shows what pins may be value pins and which pins may be not be such as value.

    This chart says a few things, IMHO

    1) TZ is a great value. It's rated #2 and is approaching half as much money as the game one position above it.

    2) WoZ doesn't look like a good value. It's also 2 times more expensive than the pin ranked 1 higher (Wh20). Plus, based on the trendline, the price is out of whack

    3) TOTAN and TRON fit almost perfectly on the trend line, so one might say those pins have expected prices

    Anyway, you can interpret the chart however you see fit. It's simply interesting to look at, IMHO.

    prices.png

    #2 4 years ago

    To me the best bargain on the board (by a long shot) is STTNG.

    #3 4 years ago

    ranking / price = value? Sure, whatever. Good thing you don't factor in fun, rankings manipulation, or trolls into the math. Sheesh.

    -4
    #4 4 years ago

    See, rich newbies? You can get 4-5 Top 20 pins for $20k. Not just 2. May be best to pass on that Ruby Red WOZ.

    #5 4 years ago

    how 'bouts Tron LE ?

    #6 4 years ago

    How does pinside calculate price? These seem high.

    #7 4 years ago

    Rank is a weird value to plot things against, ratings make more sense. Then we can calculate how many dollars per magic fun point out of 10 you can spend, although the Bang for Buck chart goes over that.

    The Bang for Buck chart always seemed weird to me. I think it's because the lowest games ever really go is somewhere in the 6s and the highest a game goes is into the 8s. Close Encounters of the Third Kind and Mr & Mrs. Pac-Man aren't games you ever hear about being great value games, but they're high on the bang for buck charts. Their low price reflects the quality of the game.

    #8 4 years ago

    hmmm... maybe 1 more variable before plotting?
    pins that people have far less access (or no) access to reduce their ability to score it.

    normalize the data so that quantity of pins is no longer a factor.
    ranking decreased or increased by that.

    #9 4 years ago
    Quoted from altan:

    2) WoZ doesn't look like a good value. It's also 2 times more expensive than the pin ranked 1 higher (Wh20). Plus, based on the trendline, the price is out of whack

    Based on this logic the same could almost be said about Met Premium and Met Pro then.

    #10 4 years ago

    Well if there are 2 things we can all agree on it's the rankings of pins, and what their value is. So just plop them in a graph and bam; you have a 3rd thing we can all agree on

    #11 4 years ago

    Based on some comments, here is the simple "price per rating" graph

    PriceRating.png

    and the top 20 sorted from best value to non-best value

    Game Price/Rating
    WH20 $481.93
    STTNG $522.63
    Met(Pro) $563.95
    SS $594.46
    TOM $603.12
    IJ $636.64
    LOTR $642.82
    SM $654.06
    TAF $654.43
    TZ $659.32
    TRON(Pro) $667.80
    TOTAN $783.57
    CV $840.54
    ACDC $883.60
    AFM $917.85
    ST(Pre) $924.48
    MET(Pre) $951.70
    WoZ $958.97
    MB $999.31
    MM $1,207.95

    #12 4 years ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    See, rich newbies? You can get 4-5 Top 20 pins for $20k. Not just 2. May be best to pass on that Ruby Red WOZ.

    Insulting people by referring to them as "rich newbies" because they choose to get a pin different than you?

    Now I wish I had gotten a ruby red WOZ instead of standard.

    #13 4 years ago

    I ran numbers like this long ago and posted them on RGP. Did it for like 50 machine. I was surprised that TZ and TFTC ended up as top values based on price vs avg rated gameplay.

    #14 4 years ago

    To pull a few of the cheaper games out of the top 50:
    Shadow $347
    WW $262
    HS2 $289
    RS $343
    WCS94 $306

    #15 4 years ago

    Thanks for putting these numbers together - quite insightful. Would be great to see for the top 100 machines.

    #16 4 years ago
    Quoted from DaveH:

    ranking / price = value? Sure, whatever. Good thing you don't factor in fun, rankings manipulation, or trolls into the math. Sheesh.

    I agree completely with this. I don't even look at the Pinside top 100 anymore. It is so riddled with bad rating trolls that you can't take the ratings seriously anymore.

    #17 4 years ago

    I find it interesting some get so hot and bothered when this info is shown or discussed.

    I agree it's not perfect and it's probably manipulated. I don't know whether the people attempting to manipulate it are in enough numbers to have a substantive impact.

    I'm simply posting some charts on the data, not making any validity claims. I think they are entertaining to look at. I hope others find them interesting in some way.

    If one ignores pinside rankings then it's best to ignore this thread also.

    #18 4 years ago

    If all machines on the market were of equal quantity, then the price / ranking ratio should on theory be linear. But since some games like TZ are far higher in production quantity than MM, the supply & demand rule kicks in. And since the production quantities are so different per game, there really is no linear comparison that can be made between price and ranking.

    #19 4 years ago

    This is not a business, with the graphs and charts i don't know what the hell is going on here. Its a game and its a hobby, pay want you want for games that you want, end of story. The list should be used as a very rough guide, most of my favorite games aren't even in the top 100.

    #20 4 years ago
    Quoted from altan:

    I find it interesting some get so hot and bothered when this info is shown or discussed.
    I agree it's not perfect and it's probably manipulated. I don't know whether the people attempting to manipulate it are in enough numbers to have a substantive impact.
    I'm simply posting some charts on the data, not making any validity claims. I think they are entertaining to look at. I hope others find them interesting in some way.
    If one ignores pinside rankings then it's best to ignore this thread also.

    I think your charts are a cool way to visualize some of the data on the site. I dont see them as a pricing guide; just interesting to see! Thanks!

    #21 4 years ago
    Quoted from altan:

    I find it interesting some get so hot and bothered when this info is shown or discussed.

    It may be interesting, but in no way is it unexpected.

    #22 4 years ago
    Quoted from Mojosan:

    Insulting people by referring to them as "rich newbies" because they choose to get a pin different than you?
    Now I wish I had gotten a ruby red WOZ instead of standard.

    Since when is "rich" or "newbie" an insult? And what's wrong with emphasizing you can still get 4-5 Top 20 pins (for $20k) instead of 2? And how dare I suggest WOZ RR isn't the best bang-for-the-buck at $9500. Infer what you want. No insults were made.

    p.s. I actually like WOZ, but I am not a fan of how prices are now in the $8000-$10000 range for many new titles. Let's not pretend we're all getting a great value at that price point. We're getting bent over.

    #23 4 years ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    ...isn't the best bang-for-the-buck at $9500... We're getting bent over.

    $9500 is really high for a pinball machine, including when you take history into account.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/price-of-nib-pins-back-in-the-day/page/2#post-2053697
    The average price of a pin from (1971-2007) was roughly ~$5K when scaled for inflation.
    Average: $5113, High: $5938, Low: $3903

    -mof

    #24 4 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    $9500 is really high for a pinball machine, including when you take history into account.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/price-of-nib-pins-back-in-the-day/page/2#post-2053697
    The average price of a pin from (1971-2007) was roughly ~$5K when scaled for inflation.
    Average: $5113, High: $5938, Low: $3903
    -mof

    Keep in mind the cost of production per pin was lower back in the day because quantities were many times higher. Frankly I find it amazing we can still get a new licensed pro made in the USA for $5500 and is a testament to the efficiency of any company that can stay in business today. Only time will tell how many companies will be around 3 years from now.

    #25 4 years ago
    Quoted from n1teowl:

    Would be great to see it for all the top 100 machines.

    I'm thinking that BBB might not fare too well in "price versus ranking."

    #26 4 years ago
    Quoted from Jgaltr56:

    Keep in mind the cost of production per pin was lower back in the day because quantities were many times higher. Frankly I find it amazing we can still get a new licensed pro made in the USA for $5500 and is a testament to the efficiency of any company that can stay in business today. Only time will tell how many companies will be around 3 years from now.

    Also, because of inflation, the rise of minimum wage, the rise of insurance coverage costs, the higher cost of energy/gas, higher income and property taxes, and so on.

    The cost of doing business 20-30 years ago was much lower, and there wasn't nearly as much overhead. But at the time, I'm sure people complained about things being cheaper in the previous 20 years too. *shrugs*

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