(Topic ID: 317919)

Evil Knievel Out hole kicker and target reset not working

By Judoratt

1 year ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 28 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Rikoshay
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    View topic image gallery

    CC22EE88-8866-4A00-ACD4-317A63EE75FF (resized).jpeg
    F2C02B1E-F223-4C37-A23A-D1B22DD8B7A4 (resized).jpeg
    5EA94851-6133-4AAD-8720-481D408D9E25 (resized).jpeg
    69F6DC41-EAC2-47C3-928E-DF8DE3131660 (resized).jpeg
    #1 1 year ago

    Currently working on a Evel Kinevel hasn’t played since 1985 i’ve installed a working driver board and MPU from Bally 8 ball. The out hole kicker works on the solenoid test but does not work in game play the target reset doesn’t work in Solenoid test or gameplay. And I have done an ohm test on the coils and they seem to be fine and out hole switch is registering points . Any help will be greatly appreciated.

    69F6DC41-EAC2-47C3-928E-DF8DE3131660 (resized).jpeg69F6DC41-EAC2-47C3-928E-DF8DE3131660 (resized).jpeg
    #2 1 year ago

    Could be a lot of stuff - my guess is one or more of your connectors need to be repinned. Try taking off the connectors on the mpu and putting them back on.

    #3 1 year ago

    Maybe try switch test to see if the mpu recognises the switched closed?

    Look for dry solder joints on the back of the mpu.

    #4 1 year ago

    Sorry, your pic shows the saucer, so is the saucer working, or is it the outhole, or are you referring the saucer as the outhole?

    Also, have you used an 8 Ball mpu in EK and swapped ROM/s and U6 and checked they use the same jumpers?
    Sure someone can chime in and confirm this.

    #5 1 year ago
    Quoted from WeirPinball:

    Could be a lot of stuff - my guess is one or more of your connectors need to be repinned. Try taking off the connectors on the mpu and putting them back on.

    Thanks
    I didn’t mention the mpu connectors have been all re pined.

    #6 1 year ago

    Sorry, your pic shows the saucer, so is the saucer working, or is it the outhole, or are you referring the saucer as the outhole?
    Also, have you used an 8 Ball mpu in EK and swapped ROM/s and U6 and checked they use the same jumpers?
    Sure someone can chime in and confirm this.

    Correct it is the saucer and target bank that don’t work.

    #7 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rikoshay:

    Sorry, your pic shows the saucer, so is the saucer working, or is it the outhole, or are you referring the saucer as the outhole?
    Also, have you used an 8 Ball mpu in EK and swapped ROM/s and U6 and checked they use the same jumpers?
    Sure someone can chime in and confirm this.

    Correct it is the saucer is not working.

    #8 1 year ago

    Check transistor Q8 on your power supply board.

    #9 1 year ago

    Q8 is the transistor for the saucer. Try connecting a jumper wire by attaching, if you have one, an alligator clip to the metal tab of transistor Q8 on the Solenoid Driver board to a ground point, say the ground braid inside the backbox where the braid from the cabinet meets the backbox braid, do so quickly and see if the saucer coil works.

    Q12 is the transistor for the drop target coil, try the same.

    #10 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rikoshay:

    Q8 is the transistor for the saucer. Try connecting a jumper wire by attaching, if you have one, an alligator clip to the metal tab of transistor Q8 on the Solenoid Driver board to a ground point, say the ground braid inside the backbox where the braid from the cabinet meets the backbox braid, do so quickly and see if the saucer coil works.
    Q12 is the transistor for the drop target coil, try the same.

    Both Q8 & 12 operate the saucer and target reset. The saucer scores points but won’t launch the ball so I assume the switch is good. Could it be a connector on the solenoid driver?

    #11 1 year ago

    yes it could be a connector, J5 on the solenoid driver board.

    pin 10 for the saucer & pin pin 13 for the target reset.

    by grounding the tabs you have confirmed there is power to the coils but bypassed the mpu communicating with the solenoid driver board to turn on the transistors and provide a path to ground.

    unplug J5 and confirm you have continuity using a meter from pins 10 (green) & 13 (black) respectively, back to the coil.

    also remove the solenoid driver board and check the rear for any dry solder joints on any of the header connectors. If in doubt please post pics.

    also reseat J4, this is where the data comes from the mpu to the decoder U2. Having said that also check the rear of the cpu board for any dry joints at the header pins.

    there are multiple reasons why these solenoids aren't being switched to ground: a PIA on the mpu, one or more connections, the decoder and/or driver on the solenoid driver board, the transistors Q8 & Q12, dry solder joints. Hoping it will be an easy fix.

    1 week later
    #12 1 year ago

    I have ordered a new driver and lamp board hoping to see them first of next week.

    #13 1 year ago

    So the connector pins are OK?

    #14 1 year ago
    Quoted from Billc479:

    So the connector pins are OK?

    I’ve done re pinning of the MPU and a couple connectors on the driver board. The connectors and pins look to be in good shape. The lamp and driverboard did need some work talking to Adam from pinheads he suggested changing the other two boards out instead of reworking them. So basically it’s my plan to install the new boards and work from there.

    5EA94851-6133-4AAD-8720-481D408D9E25 (resized).jpeg5EA94851-6133-4AAD-8720-481D408D9E25 (resized).jpeg
    #15 1 year ago

    Ok. Following

    #16 1 year ago

    So I just received installed the new driver and lamp boards and already had the new MPU. Booted up and started a game. It ran a bit better but still a lot of major glitches So I ran Solenoid tests, blew a fuse 3 amp slow blow on the second or third solenoid in the test. So I turn the machine off replace the fuse and it blew on start up. So I don’t home test on the coils good readings and everyone except left flipper and coin door coil. The coin door was 536 and flipper was 338. So are these bad coils or just erroneous readings because the coils are still wired in the game?

    CC22EE88-8866-4A00-ACD4-317A63EE75FF (resized).jpegCC22EE88-8866-4A00-ACD4-317A63EE75FF (resized).jpegF2C02B1E-F223-4C37-A23A-D1B22DD8B7A4 (resized).jpegF2C02B1E-F223-4C37-A23A-D1B22DD8B7A4 (resized).jpeg
    #17 1 year ago

    Right now, I’m not worried about the coil resistance. You’re comparing two different size coils.

    The coils should have a diode across the windings, and you won’t get accurate coil readings without lifting a leg of its respective diode.

    Did you repin J5 on the driver board connector?

    #18 1 year ago

    yes correct, you can't test a coil/solenoid in circuit, a wire must be removed so the meter will measure the coil, the diode can stay in place imo.

    where is this 3A SB fuse?

    #19 1 year ago

    Right now, I’m not worried about the coil resistance. You’re comparing two different size coils.
    The coils should have a diode across the windings, and you won’t get accurate coil readings without lifting a leg of its respective diode.
    Did you repin J5 on the driver board connector?</blockquote

    Yes J5was re pinned and now working on three and four currently. I found a bad knocker coil that I believe was blowing the three amp fuse on the rectifier board. Planning on re-pinning everything by the time I’m done. Thanks for the info on wired coils.

    #20 1 year ago

    Yes I re-pinned J 5 currently working on re-pinning J 3 and 4, And planning to re pin the whole board. I believe it was a knocker coil shorting three amp fuse on the rectifier board. And thank you gentlemen for the information on testing wired coils.

    #21 1 year ago

    the 3A SB fuse is for the mains, being F6

    the fuse for the solenoids is F4 which should be a 5A FB

    i'm not making sense of the knocker coil taking out the mains fuse, or i misread your post?

    #22 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rikoshay:

    yes correct, you can't test a coil/solenoid in circuit, a wire must be removed so the meter will measure the coil, the diode can stay in place imo.
    where is this 3A SB fuse?

    I always test without removing a wire for resistance. You can't always test a diode installed on a coil though.

    #23 1 year ago

    off topic from original post, but to be clear, are you saying for example you can get the resistance reading of the hold winding on a flipper coil without removing an EOS wire or breaking the circuit via the EOS contacts?

    #24 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rikoshay:

    off topic from original post, but to be clear, are you saying for example you can get the resistance reading of the hold winding on a flipper coil without removing an EOS wire or breaking the circuit via the EOS contacts?

    Yes

    #25 1 year ago

    so to send you a message or to post? i'm always up for learning and it may help others too?......so current will take the path of least resistance, there are 2 circuits, that being the 2 lugs of the flipper coil that the EOS is soldered to, ideally zero ohms and the other circuit being the hold winding. How do measure the resistance of the hold winding when there is a short circuit?

    #26 1 year ago

    I regularly test coils still wired in on EM machines but this reading on a SS was very strange. I was able to test the knocker coil and find out that it was bad and possibly blowing the 3amp SB. Again my experience is limited and appreciate the feed back. I am heading down stairs to finish the re pinning of the driver board.

    #27 1 year ago

    Here is an copy from the guide:

    Before Turning the Game On: Check the Coil Resistance.
    A very good idea for any unknown game just purchased is to check all the coils' resistance. If the game is new to you, and you have not powered it on, a quick check of coil resistance will tell you a lot about your new game. This takes about one minute and can save you hours of repair and diagnosing work.
    Any coil that has locked on (usually due to a short solenoid driver board transistor) will heat up and have a lower total resistance. This happens because the painted enamel insulation on the coil's wire burns, causing the windings to short against each other. This will lower the coil's resistance, causing the coil to get even hotter. Within a minute or so the coil becomes a dead short, and usually blows a fuse.

    If the solenoid driver board (SDB) transistor is repaired, and the game is powered on with a dead-shorted coil, this will blow the SDB's same transistor again when the coil is fired by the game for the first time! There is no sense making more work for yourself. So take 60 seconds and check all the coils' resistance BEFORE powering the game on for the first time!

    In order to check coil resistance, put your DMM on its lowest resistance setting. Then put the DMM's red and black leads on each coil's lugs. A resistance of 2.5 ohms or greater should be seen. Anything less than 2.5 ohms, and the coil and/or driving transistor may be bad. Now remove the wire from one of the lugs of the coil, and test the coil again. If the resistance is still the same (low), the coil or diode is bad (and also perhaps the driving transistor). If the resistance is higher than 2.5 ohms, the coil is good but the solenoid driver board transistor is shorted and will need to be replaced. Lastly, the coil's 1N4004 diode could be shorted too, giving a false low coil resistance. Cut one diode leg from a coil lug and retest the coil's ohms.

    When replacing a coil with a new one, and make sure there is a 1N4004 diode installed across the coil's lugs. Remember when reconnecting the wires to the coi that the power wire (usually two wires or thicker wires) goes to the coil's lug with the BANDED side of the diode attached. The thinner wire is the coil's return path to ground via the SDB.

    #28 1 year ago

    I'm going by practice, not a general guide which in my opinion is misleading and incorrect.

    #WeirPinball, please tell me how you measure the hold winding on a flipper coil without breaking the EOS circuit?
    You said you can do it and I'd just like to know how?
    Please try it for yourself and post your result.
    The meter will show zero ohms if the EOS circuit is in place or a different reading, that being the resistance of the circuit of the wires connected. This is inaccurate and give a false reading to what you are wanting.

    #Judoratt sorry to hijack your thread, but using a meter to a coils' resistance on an EM can be different and will work as in most cases the coil under test is activated by the closing of a set of contacts in another switch stack, so there is only one circuit. When there is more than one circuit the meter doesn't know what you want to test, it will give a reading the way the unit was designed to and that reading will be the one which path has the least resistance.

    Reply

    Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

    Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

    Donate to Pinside

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


    This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/evil-knievel-out-hole-kicker-and-target-reset-not-working and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

    Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.