Wow,i did not think there was anyone still butt hurt and holding a grudge over Predator, hahaha. And you got your money back and are still crying over it, lol.

FIgures that you are still hung up on that.

Even funnier if you think I care what you think about my credibility with you of all people.

You should buy at least ten of each remake and enjoy them. Enjoy the extra 2k you are giving to mr personality with each purchase also.

You have a habit of not realizing that this is an online forum and opinions are always facts on the internet, lol.

Don't choke on your christmas dinner. Happy holidays.

Maybe he was mad he didn't get to do the test route option for PPS like he does with other titles? Those game would be 10/10 if he had the first game off the line.

Not sure why anyone would compare a remake to anything but the original? Esp in a thread on the topic of buying a MB, either now or remkae... sounds like a diversionary tangent?

I was evaluating AFMr as a potential purchase to put on route (either it or a future remake) so I specifically wanted to look at an example of the game that is maintained by a high use location with great techs. I was scared off quickly after seeing the condition of the game (and comparing it directly to the 20 year old games in the same row). I will likely be back down there in the next month and will grab photos for you. THis is not about a single example, this is about one of the few representative examples that has gotten a reasonable amount of plays and is indicative of the future wear/ condition of many AFMr after they get a few thousand plays on them. If you want to be so obtuse as to compare to other failed companies then go right ahead, but you look silly in doing so.

Lol, gotta love that this guy chimes in. Dude is still crying cause he tried to take advantage of the good will of others and got caught on it. now he stalks me and other WI folks to cry every chance he can.

Hilton's problem is he has an agenda and a personal bias against Rick Bartlett of Planetary Pinball. He has carried on this personal crusade for years now and is always looking for ways to attack and denigrate him or anyone connected to him. Take his opinions with a grain of salt.

My comment goes to the quality and condition delivered by these three manufactures and nothing more. I think it's a fair comparison and on topic. Interesting conversation starter if nothing else.
People are welcome to judge my comment and rebuttal as I requested they do, whether you think I'm being silly or not.

Well said !
I hate to say it but everything is pure speculation until at least 5-10 years from now when we will see how the new machines hold up and if there's service issues. I would hope/assume that hardcore hobbists or the manufacturers(if still in operation)will step up with replacement boards or other fixes if they are needed. I personally would be much more concerned if the numbers of games manufactured were extremely low like say magic girl or TBL . If a fix is needed for hundreds of machines I have confidence it will happen. It won't happen overnight and surely many pinsiders (who have the patience of a 8 yr old child) will be melting down,and the original guys will all be saying I Told You So!!!,but it will eventually happen.

nailed it!

I just think that getting more games out there is good for the hobby no matter what or how it’s done. These games provide joy for their owners.

I don't care for Mr personality, but I was evaluating AFMr for potential purchase. you are dumb if you think my dislike for someone means I won't buy a product they offer if I think it makes sense to do so.
Not everyone lives in the vindictive world that you do Kim.

I personally think it is silly to try and compare heighway and DP to AFM when the topic is specifically talking MB original and remake... IF you want to, then I would say they all have similar PF quality (or lack of more accurately). I do find it silly that none of them ship with proper protectors in place. AFM in particular gets hammered at the scoop and there has been a good protector for this for years. Just cost cutting to not have this installed on al, the games from D1.

Oh yeah? I read where they were working on rewriting and updating code for existing games. But that was over three years ago...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wish-list-of-bugs-in-wmsbly-wpcwpc95-code-to-fix

And I have to agree with this. AFMr is an amazing looking game. But once I started flipping, the only urge I had was to turn it off and walk away.

So what is the rumored price on MBr when it comes out?

Happy Holidays, Hilton. - Sincerely.

You to Kim!

Cheers

whatever the remake is I'm buying it - infact I'm travelling to TPF to see what it is! A lot of people today haven't played these games first time around esp anyone less than 40! I had played AFM once back in the 90's - so to me its a new game. My daughter who is 30 absolutely loves AFMR. I've got a MB and a ToM with bling-o-beam-to-the-max and if its either of those, I'll be flogging the originals and getting the remake. The quality of the remakes is unparalleled (I own MMR LE also) and compared to lots of fixing I've had to do on both ToM and MB I'd rather get a remake as CGC have demonstrated how good they can make machines and importantly how good they are at supporting them. If it blows up in 10 years, as I've said before I'll phone Doug and get another remake!

Exactly the same for me. I played pinball from mid 70's until around 1990. I got back into it around 1999/2000. Only at this time there were not many games around on location. Only times I've played any WPC/WPC95 games were at the two local shows. Never played TOTAN, Congo, White Water, and many others. Only played TOM, MM, AFM and MB a hand few of times.
These remakes are just like completely new games for me.

My guess is Less than a 100k beat to hell used game with service required! Say what you will about remakes unless your pleasure is service the remakes are everything the game Would be if they were released from Bally/WMS today with new technology. Many of us prefer to play over waving a soldering iron. I can do it but Why???

Assuming u meant 10k...... but u can get a fully refurbished like new mb with chrome, color dmd. Leds, blackout mod and lots other stuff for 9k from my experience

Im well aware MBr will be made. I once borrowed a friend's MMr because I thought about buying. Nice game, no complaints but it did feel like a stern to me and not as solid as an original. I also like working on my games. Taking that into consideration I bought an original mb. I felt I was slightly protected investment wise because it is a prototype. Maybe it will be a little more desirable if I sell.

I also guess im a shallow game guy. I have already beat the game but it's still fun as hell and a blast to play. I also just got a tom, totan and I love those also. I've had Indiana Jones and 20 others games. It was impossible to complete all the modes. It's sort of nice getting to the finale like scared stiff.

I prefer servicing the originals myself. Which really isn't that big a deal. It's fun!

I guess if I couldn't service a machine I owned, I'd probably stick to digging holes in the ground and see what grows.

MB, AFM..............and MM. In that order.

John

This Thread really got far away from the original question the original poster asked what's the best way to buy one my answer would be ....apparently he doesn't care if its original or remake he's interested in a Monster Bash and only he can decide the answer to this question..... whichever one you like ! Once you're into that price range- what's a thousand or two either way. I have an original but like the other remakes and I'm sure MBR will be good also. If it is just dollars I'm sure the original MB will drop down some more. And after MBR is out that will start to drop also.

Most accurate and honest post of the year.

You know who is still "butt hurt" over predator?? the people that got screwed over financially, some based on your recommendation, and you find it funny.

I'd say get pics of the shooter lanes of all twelve that are for sale and go from there.

I’ll bet you do.

Glad to see you’re back on Pinside for the holidays!

Thanks man! I was lurking in and out over the last couple months but really got a lot more done not being so involved here. All it took was noticing my BSD was in serious need of shopping out, and I knew no way did I want it down for a long time. Now it's good as new!

if pinball didn't take off and become a money pit. you would have never seen those System 1 remakes. If the money is there, stuff will get made. If it starts drying up, things will stop and a lot will be dead in the water. Least I know my old stuff is fixable by me. My spike system stuff as of right now, is disposable, because it cannot be fixed right now without buying replacement parts. Until it's serviceable, it's considered disposable.

To answer the original question, I took this opportunity to buy pinlawyer's MB two weeks ago. If remakes draw the prices down on beautiful original playfield, modded to the max machines like that I'm all in.
MB was a grail title for me.
IMO the remakes are good for the hobby in that those who like them get brand spankin new games and those who don't can get their hands on nice originals at a more reasonable price. Win win.
As to which is better, this thread shows how far apart we all are on that. My experience with them is that though they may be beautiful with the great lighting and large color displays, the build quality just isn't there.

I'm in the same boat. The remakes are phenomenal, and I love the new features that they add in, but give me an original every time. The game may or may not be pristine, but those remakes are going to get dinged around just like the originals eventually. The remakes are not the same hardware and configuration. The feel and flipper capabilities seem to be pretty subjective; I like the original game feel too, but I think that's just confirmation bias. Plus the B/W games have been time tested and there is a fix for every issue imaginable - parts are still available in mass quantities, and there are no surprises. Mods are still coming out all the time, if that's your thing. All of that is worth it to me to stick with the originals

At least your flippers work, right?

Have you read the AFMr technical thread?

Yeah man. How they managed to take a twenty some year old design and screw it up is beyond me.

Did they? I thought people were raving about the AFMr design and tech support. Admittedly haven't read those threads in a while though.

They were until their flippers started blowing driver boards. And no working new toy for the holidays.

That definitely was bad timing - it seems more like they rushed some software through before testing sufficiently. Not as major a problem as an engineering flaw but still pretty bad since the end result is (for now) the same. They do seem to just jump right on things, and they know how important these first couple releases Are for the long-term value of the company

But, but, but, these were supposed to have the exact same flippers as the originals!

I don’t know - they probably are the same mechs but the CpU controls so much via software now that there’s bound to be differences

Yeah now they are emulating what was once a great thing.

This pretty much sums up why I bought one. I can sell the invisiglass and lighted apron and get within striking distance of where I expect the remakes to be.
I’ll take proven technology over a guess. I think someone has already drawn the car comparison but to echo it, in the long run originals hold their value better. Pinball is not an investment strategy but being able to salvage sell and get your money back is a good spot to be in.

Yes, a lot of us in this category. I'm not opposed to remakes, if people like them. But they aren't for me. For instance, I want to get an MM again, but I don't want an MMr. Not being a repro/original snob, I just prefer originals. I have extra WPC-95 cpus, and drivers. I know the system backwards and forwards. I know exactly what's wrong when something breaks, and probably have the parts/know-how on hand to fix it immediately. If I want to change some lighting, I swap in different LEDs. Sometimes, I swap it back and change it again, until I get the lighting exactly like I want it. I like the fact that my machines were put together at the old Wms factory, with the original designers walking the line, overseeing production, tweaking the line, etc. I know, a little corny and nostalgic. But that's me.

To many, none of this matters, or saving $1000-2500 matters more. Which is understandable. Some people just like "new" things. I get that too. Unboxing a new MBr? That's going to be a sweet moment for anyone, even the most hardcore originality fanatics have to admit. But if you gave me $8k and asked, original or remake, I'm going to grab an original all day, every day. Wide display or no, a couple enhancements or what not, it won't matter, that would just be my preference.

MB is an absolutely wonderful game. It's become common among modern collectors to dismiss a game once it's been 'beaten.' To me, this is silly. MB never gets old. The sounds, characters, toys, visuals make it a joy to play. MoR is not all that easy, either. But yes, as far as wizard modes go, it's very attainable.

But have you seen any flying 6's lately? Doubt it. The Big-6 stack is probably the most difficult stack in 90's pinball. Unbelievably difficult because of the precise order you need to complete your shots, so you don't complete one monster before starting another. If you need more challenge, there you go. Most who say MB is "boring" and "too easy" also give you a blank stare when you ask if they've seen Flying 6's. But difficulty aside, when Frank comes alive, it's one of the most magical moments in pinball. The flow of the game is great. The bash toys are satisfying. It's a joy to play, and has been for me since it was released.

I've only done this once in the 7 or so years I've owned MB. It was very cool and felt like quite an accomplishment.

I've seen it only twice. Crazy difficult.

Also, Rock Before Bash is a difficult achievement most won't see often. However, the 50M bonus is not a great reward, because you can grab more than that in a good round of Bash. It should be 150M, honestly. I've talked to Lyman about it, and he didn't disagree but said he didn't want to weight it too heavily when he was estimating scoring originally. Points aside, if you get RBB you have been absolutely shooting the lights out.

Watch it happen this year!

Hey It's Only Pinball!

Agree with everything you said but this. You should come take a look at mine. You might change your mind.

What’s Flying 6?

They are not the same. I bought one for my WCS. The intro jingle turned me off right away. (that's an opinion) The volume would vary constantly when the game was played. It varied on which particular sound was called up. Now these issues may have been addressed by now (been a couple of years). I truly worry about the fate of my original W/B games because of this issue. Don't get me wrong I applaud Pinsound and what they have accomplished. I just would like to see a plug and play replacement that works like the original.

Some call it the Big-6 stack. Some call it Flying 6's. When you get all Six monsters active at the same time, and the number 6's fly out of the display. I think Lyman referred to it as the "666666 Stack."

As with RBB, the player is not properly rewarded for the Big-6 stack. They are both just feathers in your cap. I forget the Big-6 bonus amount but I remember it being dismally low. I've mentioned this to Lyman, and he's not opposed to updating the scoring, and agreed the Big-6 bonus should be higher. Iirc, he said the average Bash score during testing was 25M, so he doubled it for RBB. So at least for RBB, we have the early Wms testers to blame for their weak Bash scores. As for the Big-6, I doubt any players saw it during test except Lyman.

Someone probably mentioned this but the best way to buy a monster bash is wait for the remake and then buy that one.