I cannot wait for MB-r. I am with a woman now that loves my original AFM, and trust me, THAT is a refreshing change of pace. I couldn't care less how easy MB-r will be. If my girl loves the game and shares my passion with me, that's all I need. She loves the callouts on AFM, the humor and music, but the big thing for her: it is EASY to understand. We don't need a TWD/LOTR level ruleset on every game. She walked up, I told her "Hit those 3 targets to attack the saucer.", she did, she hit the saucer three times and then sunk the last shot to make it "blow up", and she had a total blast. She willingfully comes up and asks if we can play AFM, and I'm like "Hell to the f'ing YES" after being with my ex for 7 years who walked away after 5 minutes of pinball play.

Bring on the easies: MB-r, SS-r, WH2O-r (ok, not EASY...but fun to play), and anything else my future wife likes the look of and is fun to play. I'll buy them all at $7000ish a pop. I don't need "War and Peace" each time I play. "Curious George" level is just fine for me and her.

Most people complaining about the remakes are the ones who have the ability/cash to pick one up. An original MM(before remake) was insanely out of most people's grasp unless they were paying close to 10k. I get both sides of the argument and i believed the remake were trash but I kept seeing MM's for sale and they were beat up and worn for 8.5k+. I asked myself the question that im sure a lot of people do as well. Why spend this much for a worn machine when i can spend less and get the same game brand new?

Gotta be the J-Poop stank. I think it's a top 10 too.

I can go back even further to the late 70's when machines went solid state in the first place. They had to even make 2 versions of the same game just to appease the many who took stock in a bunch of unfounded rumors that never came to fruition.

Can’t say that I find your answer surprising. I wouldn’t expect anything positive to come out of you.

You’re wrong about no R&D, coding and art. They have a new board set, their own code to run it, new art in higer resolution than the original. They invested heavily in that.

I don’t view them as remakes. There are more of MM and AFM now and that’s a good thing. These are classic games that keep the hobby strong.

The feedback from the remakes has been very positive overall, of course there are always the haters out there that says they are a bad thing for one reason or another. I honestly don’t know how anyone can look at these remakes and not fall in love with them. I don’t like the prices they are asking for them but the games themselves are unbelievably nice I think.

I would play one before shelling out 8k . I traded a Black Spider-Man straight across couple yrs ago to have all the B/W titles .Honestly its a beautiful game but I got bored real quick.It still sits with MM,AFM,CV etc I,m glad I bought the BS for 5k in the box because I would never pay 8k for MB. Just my opinion, only thing that's cool is my game was owned by Matt Dillon ( entourage HBO) I got it while he was going through a divorce.

What do you think about Mideival Madness? Does it have enough code wise to be a keeper in your opinion?

I wonder if people said the same thing when the first solid state pins came out.

Of course they did

The R&D for the crappy boardset happened with MMr and most of that was 'borrowed' from elsewhere. Nothing new for AFMr. They emulated the code, used the original art as concept, and the investment is minimal at best. You honestly are fooling yourself and buying into their marketing hype and desired perception if you really think they spend more than 20% of what it would take to create a completely new game.

Dont get me wrong, i am very happy for all the people with the money that are chomping at the bit to buy these remakes. Like I said, they feed a niche of people that only want nostalgia but have not idea how to work on a machine themselves. In a home environment the quality does not matter as they get a fraction of the plays in a year that a game does on route. From what I have seen they just dont hold up in the long run on route and the boardset is of concern.

Nah, up till now anyone with a little desire to learn could pick up a soldering iron and a DMM and get to work. That is no longer the case with this surface mount stuff. The whole difference here is that the new stuff is being built with planned failure rate and an exhorbant cost to repair. You have to remember that when solidstate came around, the manfacturers offered classes and tech skill on how to work on them. I am still waiting to get my invite for learning how to troubleshoot and fix this new technology... (I dont think it will ever happen since that is not the business model).

My only real gripe on the remakes is that they are charging WAY TOO MUCH. It costs them a fraction to R&D and build these, they are being built in a comparable facility to Stern, and yet they are charging at least a 2k premium that is ONLY for the nostalgia factor on the ill-percieved idea that they will hold the value of the original (they wont in the long run). I truly think that if they drop 1 dud and people just wait to buy for a few months, that you will see a price shift.
Make no mistake, they are attempting to suck money out of the hobby as quick as they possibly can while the getting is good. In the long term this brings more instability to the hobby.

Whysnow The people I know who bought remakes did because it’s a finished and great game and had no nostalgia at all for them. If Stern could release a game with any code instead of using buyers to beta test maybe it would be less of a problem. Comparing a AFMr to a GotG is basically impossible and will be for years until it’s finished.

Funny,
Thats exactly what I think when I see everyone scrambling to dump their overpriced MBs right now.

The remake market exists for a reason.

Yeah, I am not comparing it to unfinish stuff. However, there are LOTS of finished games that can be had for less.

MET, TWD, SW, TNA, GOT, etc... Those are all less than the remakes, had more development costs, and actually move the hobby forward. Those will also hold their resale value better in the long run.

I don't buy remakes so I don't have to worry about it.

A few months ago, I sold my Cactus Canyon to a local friend and he felt the same way. In fact, he had spoken directly with Rick at Planetary long ago and during the conversation Rick let it slip out that CC were coming. He's a happy guy today and he taught me there is definitely a market and a preference for the originals. Albeit a much smaller market obviously.

I don't understand your argument. How do the remakes not move the hobby forward? If more people are playing pinball that's great for the hobby. Some of those people who purchase remakes may end up buying modern games as well in order to diversify their collection. It would be like saying we shouldn't buy classic movies or books because that would hurt the film industry or publishing industry. There is room for both. Competition and choice is good for consumers as it raises the bar for everyone.

Way Off (resized).jpg

Then I'm certain you'll will be thrilled by this quote from Chicago Gaming posted 4 days ago.

I owned an original AFM years ago and sold it because I needed the cash. I just bought an AFMrLE and I can tell you it is spectacular! It plays great, and the larger color DMD, topper, light up saucers, mirror blades, enhanced sound, etc etc are amazing! It plays just as good or better than my original, at least as far as I can recall. With original AFM's around $7000, I think the LE with all its enhancements and mods is well worth the 9k it costs. You would easily spend that much updating an original. AS far as the circuit boards, I can't fix them like I can Bally/Williams, but when it breaks, I'll get a new one. No big deal.

As far as MB, I have an original and it is my favorite game. People say it is too easy. You know what? I had a Hobbit and the damn thing was so complicated to play, I got sick of it and sold it. I LIKE being able to look at the game, read the instruction card, and immediately understand that I have to hit a target three times, and something happens. Then do some other thing to make something else happen. Maybe I'm a mediocre player, but I've been playing pinball for over 30 years, and MB is plenty fun for me. You guys can have your "deep" games. To me, I lose interest after trying to complete a sequence 14 times to accomplish a task, and then have to go back and complete another sequence 17 more times to accomplish something else. To me, that is completely boring and I lose interest when I can't get to a certain goal without playing for 30-45 minutes straight. I'm tired of being told to watch Youtube videos to learn how to play my game. If I wanted to study that hard, I would have gone to med school! From now on, its only shallow games for me!

That is great, but still way over priced imo.

I am honestly surprised at how fevthey have sold. Figured it would be at least double that by now?

Well said. Feel the same way about my other B/W games. Don’t want to have to read a one hundred and fifty page players guid to learn how to play a game.
If I would go by the neigh sayers 90% of my collection would be trash. They are all older classic SS games with very little code.

Actually I think about 1500 MMR’s and 1500 AFMR’s are about right where they should be. One of the other good things about the remakes is they can just keep doing small runs of a few hundred at a time and keep producing them for years to come. I wouldn’t expect them to sell multiple thousands when there are already thousands of original games out there.

I just figured that if stern can sell 800 le and. A couple thousand prem that remakes of the best games of all time would be selling comparable numbers;3000 plus.

Correct. It's good business. If they make a few at a time it keeps the demand and the feeding frenzy high. Look at how many times TSPP went back on the production line. People pay top dollar when they think it's there last chance.

John

People complain about boards in the new remakes but good luck when your wpc95 av board goes out and isn't repairable

Merry Christmas everyone!!!

Well said. The only thing I can add is, its games like Monster Bash that will bring in new players including wives/girlfriends.

Someone really should begin a Shallow Players Club to help balance the, deeper is better mindset.

So for you guys that have played all three games, MM, AFM, and MB, how do you rank the three games as far as first, second, and third place?

They’re making them as fast as they can and selling all that they make. Remember that their line is much smaller than Sterns who can churn out games much quicker. CGC makes a lot more than just pinball.

You need to play them yourself and make your own opinion as that is the only one that matters. I personally like MM as it never gets old destroying castles. I like the humor in AFM. MB is is fun and love the theme/art but is my least favorite of the 3. There are other games I like better than these 3.

And I encourage anyone to play good examples of the originals then play the remakes and decide what you prefer. IMO either are fine but depends on if you want to repair your own with the originals or bank on reliability of the new ones and buy drop replacement parts. It’s great there are options. There is no right or wrong buying original or remake. But everyone has to weigh the pros/cons of each and decide which is right for them.

What would you define as "long run" because the remakes haven't been out long enough to even evaluate how they hold up.

In a HUO environment i feel comfortable they will hold up just fine, with proper care, over the rest of my lifetime, after that, somebody else can have it.

It is AMAZING, because of all of the above. Nostalgia is someone wanting to play an original just because its "original" and take them back in time.

I was concerned about buying AFMRLE as a few guys talked me into it. It has FAR exceeded my expectations and can't believe really how good it is.

I'm another example of someone who would have considered buying a nice/restored MB or CCC, after seeing what they did with AFMR, not a chance, I'll wait for much better, at a cheaper price.

Had all 3 at same time.... afm is only one still here and was here way before the others. Mm isnt bad but I grew tired of it after year. Mb is a distant third imo and dont miss it at all..... it was beautiful to look at tho.

I wish i had taken photos of the one at Logans arcade last week. Scoop was already chewed up badly, much worse than it should be for the age.

1. AFM
2. MB
3. MM

But all 3 are awesome.

That’s been addresssed with the PinSound boards. Buy one of those and a DMD board and you are back in business.

So your saying it's ok to buy not one but two new replacement boards for your original but condemning the new cpu board on the remake because ....................................................................... You have to buy a new CPU board if it goes bad?

I didn't see him really endorse anything like that. I saw him answer the big question that if a WPC95 A/V board goes out, you don't have a 275 lbs paperweight if you buy two boards and know what to do with the new boards.

And for that, I am very grateful.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/documenting-the-entire-life-of-a-medieval-madness-remake/page/3#post-4046132

Yes I’m saying it’s “OK” to buy two replacement boards, one of which dramatically improves on the sound of the game AND which provides you an alternative when previously you were just SOL on the game when the A/V board goes. How terrible of me.

I said nothing about the remakes... at all... as far as i can see.

A mint original of anything should always command a premium..... but in the pinball hobby this doesn't seem to apply like it should.

I love AFM, MM and MB and would buy the version I think I would enjoy the most.

New dots are great but just not a fan of overly bright leds and no matter what people say the flippers just feel different on the re-makes.

And often restored games are beaters, now made good.

Finding really nice all original games is really hard though so the re-makes fill a void.

Lol, bad example as my original MM had over 100,000 plays on the meter and looked better than that remake after 1/10th the plays.

Awesome, based on mileage (100k) I’ll offer you 4500 for it! Please send PayPal address

I have owned all three (originals), and my ranking is:

AFM - great overall package even for a fan layout
MB - great theme and the best for flow
MM - don't care for it much

Sold it years ago, don't miss it at all.

On the issue of re-make quality, I will offer this half baked thought.

Three relatively new manufacturers began around the same time, give or take:

Dutch Pinball delivered 50 machines about a year ago. Several issues were quickly reported and last I heard, all were finally resolved and I haven't heard any complaints in several months.

Heighway Pinball has delivered 25 or 50(??) Alien games ...and most all have been plagued with a variety of repair and quality issues. Sounds like those issues are solvable but still...

Chicago Gaming, in contrast to these two, has put out 1000's of remakes and as far as I can tell, complaints have been relatively minor and expected.

Now maybe it's not fair to compare like this but it seems logical to me and it's a better case study than one, single machine that Hilton claims to know about.

Again, this is just a passing thought, based on questionable knowledge, so feel free to counter me.

Yeah I don't think it does either. It's a double edged sword because first the people in the pinball hobby don't pay as much for games to begin with, as you can always sell for much more to casuals. And to casuals they don't care if it's original or not so they are more likely to go with a new remake. Hence originals plummet in price.

Well I'm one of those that likes the new board system I can use a soldering iron but it's not always easy to fix the old machines, and sometimes it's downright difficult. Right now that makes me a slave to whatever pinball tech I can find, and whatever price he wants to charge me based on his mood, what neighborhood I live in and what car I drive. I hate it. Hence I love the new board system since I can just buy a new board and slap it in myself for less than a tech would charge me.

I dunno, check the thread by the local dude here that's making a pinball machine The Last Starfighter. Awesome thread, but he also detailed real world costs. They are damn expensive machines to make. Sure he pays more because of low volume, but then again the big boys have to worry about wages, insurance, building costs, permits, and on and on and on.

Ok Hilton time to step down off your soapbox! The thing is that you don’t exactly have a lot of credibility with me and many others here, your gushing reviews of Predator and the Skit B team are part of what made me pull the trigger on that game (my bad taking someone else’s oppinion as fact). Lucky for me after I sent my down payment to Skit B I decided i needed to play the game and meet Kevin, so I drove to Seattle and did just that. I was shocked at how poorly Predator played, how piss poor the build quality was and what an Asshole Kevin was when I met him. I immediately called for a refund of my deposit on Predator after seeing, playing it and meeting Kevin. I was lucky as I asked for a refund early on and got it, yet you still banged the drum “best game ever & Kevin and team are legit” I bring this up because that was a game you gave a FULL throated endorsement of, and now here you are talking down CGC and everything about what they are doing. I guess the moral of he story for me in my years here is to basically do the opposite of what ever you recommend. I don’t think you are a bad dude, but you have a habit of stating your oppinion as if it is an indisputable fact. Sometimes (just like the rest of us) you are just wrong!
Merry Christmas

Merry Christmas all. Not going to bicker endlessly here. If you like the remakes, buy them. If you don’t, find an original. But stop trying to convince the other side they’re wrong. This isn’t religion.

Peace to all