(Topic ID: 282752)

Evel Knievel Switch Matrix Problem

By JethroP

3 years ago


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  • 19 posts
  • 2 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by JethroP
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#1 3 years ago

I have 3 unresponsive switches on my game. They are the ones outlined in the attachment on Strobe line 4 - Return line 1. In other words, none of the switches on this strobe line respond. When I run the diagnostic test, all these switches show up as being closed, but checking them visually, they do not appear closed, and I checked the diodes at each switch and they test good. I also checked these strobe and returns at the MPU with the J2 connector disconnected and they each measure 56K ohms to ground. Any ideas where the problem is?

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#2 3 years ago

Check the coin chute switches, one might be closed/shorted. Quick way to check is remove J3 (coin door/cabinet switch harness) from the MPU board after you enter switch test mode.

#3 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Quick way to check is remove J3 (coin door/cabinet switch harness) from the MPU board after you enter switch test mode.

I disconnected J3 after in test mode and the switches continued to show closed.

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from JethroP:

I disconnected J3 after in test mode and the switches continued to show closed.

What about if you disconnect J2 (Playfield switch harness) from the MPU board after you enter switch test mode?

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

What about if you disconnect J2 (Playfield switch harness) from the MPU board after you enter switch test mode?

No change. The switches still show closed.

Something else that may be a clue: when in test mode I scroll to the switch test, all the switches in that strobe 4 circuit flash quickly in sequence 02, 10, 14, 18, 26, and 34....and then repeat, continuously. In my other Bally SS games, if multiple switches are closed, the test only shows one switch on the display. It won't show the other closed switches until the switch on display is opened.

#6 3 years ago

Here's the display in switch test:

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from JethroP:

all the switches in that strobe 4 circuit flash quickly in sequence 02, 10, 14, 18, 26, and 34....and then repeat, continuously. In my other Bally SS games, if multiple switches are closed, the test only shows one switch on the display.

Yes, how refreshing to see this...

BTW, the strobe wires on the playfield switch matrix are the vertical lines, the horizontal lines are the switch return wires.

If you remove both J2 and J3 from the MPU board in switch test mode and you still get these switches reported as closed, the problem is local to the MPU board.
Can you confirm this with both connectors disconnected?
If yes, then take a photo of the 32 dip switches (for your personal reference), and then switch all 32 dip switches off. Does this change anything?

Now, the strange one is switch #14 being reported. The other switch numbers are all on switch return line "I1" Switch #14 is on another switch return line and there's no physical switch #14 on the game.

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Can you confirm this with both connectors disconnected?
If yes, then take a photo of the 32 dip switches (for your personal reference), and then switch all 32 dip switches off. Does this change anything?

Confirming that the problem exists with J2 and J3 disconnected. Now for the more intriguing thing...

Quoted from Quench:

switch all 32 dip switches off. Does this change anything?

Yes it does. The only thing that changes is that now switch #14 no longer shows as closed! Only switches 2, 10, 18, 26 and 34 continue to stobe in sequence. No more 14.

#9 3 years ago

Alrighty, you know it's time to post clear high res pics of the MPU board

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Alrighty, you know it's time to post clear high res pics of the MPU board

I knew it. I knew it. Ya de ya de ya de.
Tomorrow in the daylight, coming right up.

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from JethroP:

I knew it. I knew it. Ya de ya de ya de.

Surprise me next time and put pics in your first post

Quoted from JethroP:

The only thing that changes is that now switch #14 no longer shows as closed!

Which of the MPU board DIP switches #6, #14, #22, and/or #30 did you switch off?

BTW, are all feature lamps and all displays working properly?

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Surprise me next time and put pics in your first post

I woulda, but I kinda thought I had a switch matrix issue unrelated to the MPU.

Quoted from Quench:

Which of the MPU board DIP switches #6, #14, #22, and/or #30 did you switch off?

Switched them all off. Before I did that, took a picture of what I had. It's attached.

Quoted from Quench:

TW, are all feature lamps and all displays working properly?

Yes

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#13 3 years ago
Quoted from JethroP:

Switched them all off. Before I did that, took a picture of what I had. It's attached.

Ok from your DIP switch picture, switch #6 and #14 were previously both on (#22 and #30 were off). Can you find out which one of #6 and/or #12 are causing 14 to show up in switch test mode?

Do my eyes deceive me - are the 40 pin chips being locked in with sewing cotton? One of the issues with Chinese machined sockets I find is often one or more pin receptors will be loose and not grab the IC pin. I keep faulty new chips for this scenario and bend one of the corner pins out 90 degrees to test each pin receptor in new sockets.
How much resistance do you measure from U10 pin 11 to J2 pin 9 which is the "I1" switch return signal? You should measure around 1.2k ohms.

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

How much resistance do you measure from U10 pin 11 to J2 pin 9 which is the "I1" switch return signal? You should measure around 1.2k ohms.

Probing around to measure this I discovered a poor connection the IC chip pin in the machined socket. Tightened that connection and the game now plays correctly! Thank you Quench for directing me to the exact problem area!

Quoted from Quench:

Can you find out which one of #6 and/or #12 are causing 14 to show up in switch test mode?

Neither. All the playfield switches are working correctly now. In the switch test, #14 still shows up (the only switch to show up) as closed in the game reset condition. I moved all the dip switches to off and still #14 shows closed in the test. I know it is unused switch, so does this matter? Should it be tracked down and fixed, or is this ok?

Quoted from Quench:

Do my eyes deceive me - are the 40 pin chips being locked in with sewing cotton?

Yes/No....you are looking at fishing monofilament. I did that to keep the chips tightly in the sockets when I found a poor connection before. Guess it's time to replace the sockets?!

Quoted from Quench:

I keep faulty new chips for this scenario and bend one of the corner pins out 90 degrees to test each pin receptor in new sockets.

I don't quite understand how you are doing this. Could you explain? Picture? Thanks.

Quence, thanks again for helping me resolve my problem.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from JethroP:

Probing around to measure this I discovered a poor connection the IC chip pin in the machined socket.

I presume it was the U10 pin in question? Is the repair going to last longer term?

Quoted from JethroP:

In the switch test, #14 still shows up (the only switch to show up) as closed in the game reset condition. I moved all the dip switches to off and still #14 shows closed in the test. I know it is unused switch, so does this matter? Should it be tracked down and fixed, or is this ok?

Does removing one/both of J2/J3 from the MPU board resolve this? The concern is if it's going to cause some shadow issue in the switch matrix.

Quoted from JethroP:

Guess it's time to replace the sockets?!

Normally I would say yes, but the sockets have already been replaced and there's been some collateral damage to the board. It's too risky.
If you find that you're getting connection issues with these sockets, the best bet might be get some SIP sockets, or 40 pin machined IC sockets to piggy back into the current loose sockets as a new interface for the chips. The diameter of the round pins will be better grabbed in the suspect sockets. It might look odd, but reliable connections are more important.

Every machined socket I install I check each pin receptor one at a time. I don't insert the chips pin all the way, just look for resistance. I often find a socket with one or two loose pin receptors that the chips pin floats around in. The trick is that you can actually push the faulty receptors out of the plastic housing from the bottom up and use a good receptor from a donor socket for this purpose. Tayda actually sells these machined pin receptors separately.

You might want to try this with those 40 pin sockets to see if any/many of the receptors are loose.

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#16 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

I presume it was the U10 pin in question?

Yes

Quoted from Quench:

Does removing one/both of J2/J3 from the MPU board resolve this?

Yes, removed J3 and the 14 cleared. So I did a little looking around the coin door and see one of the switches was rewired to the credit button for free play. Always wondered how this game was set up for free play. Thought it was the new U2 and U6 chips I bought, but now I see....it was this switch setup/mod. It's always worked, I guess I'll keep it that way unless you think it shouldn't be.

Now that I think of it, I believe the chips I have are able to setup freeplay in one of the settings.

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from JethroP:

Yes, removed J3 and the 14 cleared. So I did a little looking around the coin door and see one of the switches was rewired to the credit button for free play.

Does this mean you've resolved the switch 14 issue - presume it was some wire hack?

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Does this mean you've resolved the switch 14 issue - presume it was some wire hack?

I presume the 14 switch is the coin door wire hack, but I haven’t changed it back to factory yet. It’s working ok. I may change it in the next day or so to confirm.

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from JethroP:

I presume the 14 switch is the coin door wire hack, but I haven’t changed it back to factory yet. It’s working ok. I may change it in the next day or so to confirm.

I have rewired the coin door back to OEM design configuration and the switch 14 code is gone. Everything is working 100% correct now. Thanks again for your help.

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