(Topic ID: 333579)

Erratic everything

By Mikenindy

1 year ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 33 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Mikenindy
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
#1 1 year ago

My 86 road Kings and is acting very erratic suddenly It will tilt in the middle of playing and sending the ball up the ramp shots it off completely. The alarm knocker is no longer sounding at start up and it only wants to play four players at a time… The sound is also erratic… I noticed on the CPU board the 5 V LED is lit. which it never has been before. i’m assuming from what I’ve read the five volt power supply is not working, but I cannot find specifically where to test for this voltage… I have managed to fix everything thus far from all the helpful advice, which is much appreciated!!

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#2 1 year ago

I would suspect battery acid damage.

I had a fire! That was random tilting and that was the cause.

#3 1 year ago

Battery acid!?!..from where

#4 1 year ago

Take a picture of the board and we will show you.

#5 1 year ago

Will this suffice or is it a different board?

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#6 1 year ago

Ok so you have a rotten dog aftermarket board. So yeah, no battery issues.

However, the QC on those boards is terrible and many are a disaster.

It sure does sound like a board issue to me but no way to know really unless you have another one to swap in.

#7 1 year ago

Thank you. I’m a novice but I figured it was something on that board. Found a loose cabinet ground I’m sure that didn’t help matters

#8 1 year ago

Rotten dogs are known for being less than reliable. You can try swapping another one in if you have one on another title. I’d personally spend the extra cash to try and get the original board back in there.

Otherwise check all connections, try reseating the cables, etc.

#9 1 year ago

One quick thing you can check is the condition of the connectors. There is a good chance there is a rottendog in there after the original board suffered alkaline damage. This could of spread to the headers and into the connectors. I had a funhouse doing some weird shit and after exhausting everything else i traced it back to a connector that looked ok at first glance but when i removed it was rough. They changed the board but never addressed the contaminated connectors.

Is this the issue? Probably not. But it is very easy and free to check. Rule out the simple shit first i always say (after that Funhouse experience at least lol).

Otherwise I’d try and beg, borrow or steal a working Williams System 11 (first gen) to test if it is indeed a suspect rottendog board. So from another road kings, or a High Speed or Grand Lizard would work. Just need to swap the game roms.

Good luck with the troubleshooting.

#10 1 year ago

Okay yeah it’s worth a shot. No spare board though. Thanks

#11 1 year ago

Makes perfect sense to me… I don’t suppose the ROMs are plug and play? Or do they have to be soldered in?

#12 1 year ago

No luck with the connectors but the tag on it… The CPU board is dated April 2022 and I just bought the machine in mid December… That’s a $500 board.. !…OK I see the Roms etc simply plug in and out

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from Mikenindy:

No luck with the connectors but the tag on it… The CPU board is dated April 2022 and I just bought the machine in mid December… That’s a $500 board.. !…OK I see the Roms etc simply plug in and out

What’s the warranty on them? I was buying a Spy Hunter that had NVRAM boards in them and he said he’d fix or replace anything that was wrong with them (it had sound issues, but was misconfigured when I got it).

#14 1 year ago

Unfortunately it was already in the machine. Their site says 90 days. Seems short for 500$

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from Mikenindy:

Unfortunately it was already in the machine. Their site says 90 days. Seems short for 500$

This solidifies that I’ll be sticking with NVRAM boards from now on.

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from Mikenindy:

It will tilt in the middle of playing and sending the ball up the ramp shots it off completely. The alarm knocker is no longer sounding at start up and it only wants to play four players at a time… The sound is also erratic… I noticed on the CPU board the 5 V LED is lit. which it never has been before.

The 5V LED should be on to indicate the presence of 5V (for digital logic).

Any good manufacturer should support their product. Contact the manufacturer. The contact page @ http://www.rottendog.us/?page_id=12 has the information that you need.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It sure does sound like a board issue to me but no way to know really unless you have another one to swap in.

OP: Run the diagnostic tests and report any issues. Use switch EDGES (not levels) and check that only ONE switch registers when you close it.

Quoted from Dan_Halen:

This solidifies that I’ll be sticking with NVRAM boards from now on.

Pinside user barakandl or "Weebly" or "NVRAM". Officially "Pinball Electronics from barakandl". 150% reputable manufacturer and merchant. Buy with 150% confidence. Unfortunately, he does not supply a System 11 CPU board. It does appear he is venturing into making a System 3-7 unified CPU/Driver board.

OP: The manufacturer of your board is not the only supplier of System 9 or System 11 CPU boards.

#17 1 year ago

Thanks for the advice… And contact information… i’m assuming since I don’t have the receipt for that board they would not help me as far as a replacement… I was not the one that purchased it… ,,,,As far as the 5 V LED being lit. There has always been one that was illuminated. I just never took notice of which one it was… The “Blank” l e d it’s also lit. So it must be the extra light that is on now… What does that indicate?……

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from Mikenindy:

i’m assuming since I don’t have the receipt for that board they would not help me as far as a replacement… I was not the one that purchased it

This manufacturer distributes boards through a merchant. You purchase the board from a merchant. That merchant is the "first line" support. Often the merchant doesn't deal with technical issues. Technical issues are normally dealt with by the manufacturer.

The manufacturer probably won't care about about a receipt or not.

If you don't ask then the answer is always no.

Quoted from Mikenindy:

The “Blank” l e d it’s also lit. So it must be the extra light that is on now… What does that indicate?……

You should consult the schematic for the answer. Or contact the manufacturer. I can't figure it out from their schematic. The board is labeled like a Data East board rather than a Williams board so I would expect the LEDs to behave in a similar manner.

#19 1 year ago

So I contacted rotten dog and they said to check the micro processor 6802 of which there was two of them… I don’t know how to do that so I ordered one… Figured I had nothing to lose so I pulled one and put it back And the “blank “LED is now out… And the P1ALED is now lit and the game does nothing now !!..the G.I. lights are working as well as the backboard lights… However, all of the displays are dark !!!..ugggh

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

#20 1 year ago

Check that no pins got bent under the chip while removing/reinserting.

One 6802 is for sounds, the other runs game program. You could try swapping the two.

#21 1 year ago

I thank you I will check and take your advice on switching the processors. Thanks again.

#22 1 year ago

There was a couple pins that had gotten folded under upon trying to straighten them. One of them broke. My new micro processors are arriving Friday. I went ahead and reinstalled the old micro processors switching their position, and nothing changed. There were indications in the sound, and the field play that something wasn’t right hoping they both went out at the same time… Thanks.

#23 1 year ago

Have you looked for shorts under the playfield? I have a Bally Spectrum that was ‘erratic everything’ and the cause was a 555 lamp socket that was bent, and one of the metal contacts of the lamp socket was touching an adjacent piece of metal, and that short caused all kinds of crazy problems.

#24 1 year ago

No I haven’t looked for any shorts yet… The two micro processors are supposed to be here today… If they don’t work, I will look for any kind of short. Thanks.

#25 1 year ago

Replaced both micro processors. Nothing changed. Looked under the play. Field came fine no abnormalities anywhere.

#26 1 year ago

If the 5 V lamp is supposed to be lit, to indicate power…are the other two supposed to be lit at all times if everything is functioning properly?..

#27 1 year ago
Quoted from Mikenindy:

So I contacted rotten dog and they said to check the micro processor 6802 of which there was two of them… I don’t know how to do that so I ordered one… Figured I had nothing to lose so I pulled one and put it back And the “blank “LED is now out… And the P1ALED is now lit and the game does nothing now !!..the G.I. lights are working as well as the backboard lights… However, all of the displays are dark !!!..ugggh

If that's the level of support you got from the manufacturer then you probably should choose a board from a different manufacturer.

Quoted from Mikenindy:

Replaced both micro processors. Nothing changed. Looked under the play. Field came fine no abnormalities anywhere.

You need to have a working CPU board before you check for anything else. It's like having a body without a brain. Nothing else is going to work until you get a working brain.

Quoted from Mikenindy:

If the 5 V lamp is supposed to be lit, to indicate power…are the other two supposed to be lit at all times if everything is functioning properly?..

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_System_9_-_11#Normal_Game_Boot_Behavior

This manufacturer has based their silkscreen on the old (Data East) design board they used to make. This means that Williams "diagnostic" is Data East "PIA". The manufacturer should have mentioned this to you if you asked them about the LED status and expected behavior.

If you also mentioned the fact that you are using their board in a Road Kings then the manufacturer should have told you about the diagnostic digit and how that is supposed to behave when mapped to the LEDs on their board. I'm guessing they did not provide that information to you.

#28 1 year ago

I gave them all the information you mentioned, as well as a photograph of the LEDs… They offered no assistance other than replace the two micro processors, and let them know what happens… What distributor offers the system 11 NVRAM board??

#29 1 year ago
Quoted from Mikenindy:

I gave them all the information you mentioned, as well as a photograph of the LEDs… They offered no assistance other than replace the two micro processors, and let them know what happens

You should let them know the results. They should be able to guide you further on the next steps. It's their board. They should support it.

Quoted from Mikenindy:

What distributor offers the system 11 NVRAM board??

It is unlikely that the NVRAM is the problem on your board.

It looks like you have a 62256 module on the board. There does not appear to be a battery or battery connector so it is likely to be FRAM. If the module is soldered directly on the board you should probably have someone replace it for you. If the module is installed in a socket then any of the following should work. You need to do the research on the compatibility. Most boards of this era support 6116 or 6264. 62256 is overkill for this board. The software only requires 2k of RAM.

In all honesty, you should probably send the board out for repair. You can ask the manufacturer if they will repair the board. Good manufacturers should offer a repair service for their board (even if it is out of warranty). Repair is almost always cheaper than replace.

#30 1 year ago

Rotten dog has pretty much ghosted me in the last several days… what does this 62256 module do? Why are you suggesting I replace it?
By the way, mine is Socketed

#31 1 year ago
Quoted from Mikenindy:

what does this 62256 module do? Why are you suggesting I replace it?

Quoted from Mikenindy:

What distributor offers the system 11 NVRAM board??

The 62256 is the SRAM module. You asked about NVRAM - presumably as a replacement to your 62256 SRAM.

#32 1 year ago

So rotten dog finally got back to me. I will be shipping the board to them. Thanks I will let you know the results.

2 weeks later
#33 1 year ago

Got the board back from rotten dog… I guess When I installed the two new 6802 microprocessors, I put them in backwards which blew them so they replaced them and said the board is fine… Put the board in ,,the PIA led is now out, and now the “blank”LED is lit. All the G.I. lights are working… As soon as I turn the game on, however the ball trough feeder kicks on, and immediately blows the F2 fuse.. that was never an issue… Any thoughts or comments?

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 19.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
$ 27.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 18.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
 
$ 29.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
$ 95.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Pinball Mod Co.
 
$ 25.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
 
$ 22.50
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.