(Topic ID: 130194)

EPROM Programming Question

By MrBellMan

8 years ago


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  • 43 posts
  • 17 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by G-P-E
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    #1 8 years ago

    I have been trying to burn sound ROMs for my Eight Ball Deluxe. I have some Motorola MCM2532L chips. My GQ-4X will read these and do a blank check, but absolutely will not write to them. Not sure if I'm doing anything wrong. I have burned a lot of chips before, but this has me stumped. Any ideas?

    Thanks,

    Rob Bell
    Robsgameroom.com

    IMG_4051.JPGIMG_4051.JPG
    #2 8 years ago

    Try reading the chip.

    The blank check doesn't seem to actually check the *entire* chip--just the beginning, as far as I can tell.

    So, if you read the chip and see anything other than blank data (all FFFFFF's, I think), it's not actually blank. In that case, you'll have to put it in an EPROM eraser or under a UV light for around 15 minutes.

    Then you should be able to write to it.

    #3 8 years ago

    Are you using an external power supply for the programmer? I have had to use one when programming 2532 EPROMS.

    #4 8 years ago

    You can change the jumpers on the S & T board to accept 2732. My eprom burner just doesn't like those 2532s, so I use 2732s instead. I don't know why those 2532s are so finniky, but most of the ones I bought won't program. I have a Pocket Programmer III.

    #5 8 years ago

    My PP3 doesn't like to burn 2732s. No idea why, but it fails most times.

    I'd re jumper the board for 2732 too.
    http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Squawk_.26_Talk_Jumper_Settings
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.Team-EM.com
    http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

    #6 8 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    The blank check doesn't seem to actually check the *entire* chip--just the beginning, as far as I can tell.

    The GQ-4X blank checks the entire chip. I've had plenty of chips I thought I fully erased fail a blank check in the higher address ranges, gone in and read those address locations and saw data.

    Quoted from ChrisHibler:

    My PP3 doesn't like to burn 2732s.

    I think you meant 2532 here Chris.

    Quoted from 85Txaggie:

    Are you using an external power supply for the programmer?

    This is the first thing to try. Next try a different USB port then after that a different computer. If that doesn't work try blowing out the ZIF socket with compressed air. You can open up the programmer and try reseating the ZIF socket to the board. You may also have a bad set of EPROMs that won't program. Lastly, there may also be a bug in the config for the chip - check it in the devices.txt file. I've seen this before as well.

    viperrwk

    #7 8 years ago

    motorola roms are craptacular , i always have issues with the 2532 motorola

    #8 8 years ago
    Quoted from viperrwk:

    I think you meant 2532 here Chris.

    I don't know about 2532s...I don't even try.
    Really...my PP3 doesn't reliably program 2732s.
    I use my PP2 for the small EPROMs...the PP3 for big EPROMs.
    I know...it's odd.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.Team-EM.com
    http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #9 8 years ago

    That's strange, my PP3 never has trouble with 2732, BUT - it's really a 2732A, which programs at 21v instead of 25v. I blew up my programmer learning that one. I haven't seen a genuine 2732 (no A) yet.

    I got a whole tube of TMS2532A and maybe one or two were successful. Otherwise I get the maddening error message, "Device did NOT program". Why does it have to yell NOT at me? And can't it tell me why it did NOT program? Good times.

    #10 8 years ago
    Quoted from viperrwk:

    The GQ-4X blank checks the entire chip. I've had plenty of chips I thought I fully erased fail a blank check in the higher address ranges, gone in and read those address locations and saw data.

    I've had chips that passed a blank check, but when I would double-check them with a read, they still had data in them.

    #11 8 years ago

    For many devices (not all), blank checking also uses Vpp voltage (program verify) which the read does not. I've never had a device which blank checked ok on a GQ-4X that I couldn't program correctly and always go by the blank check - I never bother reading the device after blank checking.

    If you've had devices that blank checked ok but could still read data, you should report it to MCU Mall since that would be a bug. It could be a device compatibility issue or a programmer fault (they do go bad, even new ones) since that should never happen. They are very responsive to technical requests.

    viperrwk

    #12 8 years ago
    Quoted from viperrwk:

    If you've had devices that blank checked ok but could still read data, you should report it to MCU Mall since that would be a bug. It could be a device compatibility issue or a programmer fault (they do go bad, even new ones) since that should never happen. They are very responsive to technical requests.
    viperrwk

    When I put the EPROMs in question in the EPROM eraser for another 15 minutes, all the data was gone after that and I was able to write without problems. Sounds like a software issue to me, rather than a hardware issue with the burner.

    I got my unit from somewhere else, so I don't think MCU would really help a non-customer.

    #13 8 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Sounds like a software issue to me

    Which would be a device compatibility issue - problem with the programming algorithm, config, etc.

    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    I got my unit from somewhere else, so I don't think MCU would really help a non-customer.

    [email protected] - I'll bet they'll respond if you email them the details of the problem.

    What was the device? Lots of people use this programmer and if it has a bug with this device it would be good to know.

    viperrwk

    #14 8 years ago

    I'm surprised nobody has come up with a modern replacement for old UV eproms, using newer flash roms and such.

    #15 8 years ago
    Quoted from 85Txaggie:

    Are you using an external power supply for the programmer? I have had to use one when programming 2532 EPROMS.

    My GQ-4X did not come with a separate power supply. Just the USB cable. does it add voltage? My USB cable has always worked up to this point.

    #16 8 years ago
    Quoted from GetTheJackpot:

    I'm surprised nobody has come up with a modern replacement for old UV eproms, using newer flash roms and such.

    You *could* replace a 2716 with a 28C16 for example:

    ebay.com link: 28C16 15 EEprom

    But given the higher price and the relatively short data retention compared to an EPROM why would you? The only reason would be if you were writing your own code and trying it out in a machine and needed to erase and reprogram frequently.

    viperrwk

    #17 8 years ago
    Quoted from MrBellMan:

    My GQ-4X did not come with a separate power supply. Just the USB cable. does it add voltage? My USB cable has always worked up to this point.

    You NEED a separate wall wart for many EPROMs.

    #18 8 years ago
    Quoted from MrBellMan:

    My GQ-4X did not come with a separate power supply. Just the USB cable. does it add voltage? My USB cable has always worked up to this point.

    My GQ-4X would only program 2532's with an external power supply.

    #19 8 years ago

    Well, looks like a trip to Fry's or Radio Shack are in order. I appreciate the feedback.

    #20 8 years ago

    yup. for that programmer to do Nmos chips you need 21v clean. Also, these chips sometimes just dont program anymore. I've had to order 10 to find one that took

    http://www-ee.eng.hawaii.edu/~tep/EE260/TTL/Datasheets/m2732a.pdf

    #21 8 years ago
    Quoted from Deez:

    My GQ-4X would only program 2532's with an external power supply.

    Got a box of old wall warts that came with random electronics? I found one that was 9v or 12vdc with the right polarity and connector that i use with my gq-4x.

    For what its worth, 2532 are a pain to burn, but i know for a fact the GQ4X can handle that EPROM in your picture, i have used them.

    I totally recommend that as well. Squawk and talk is very easy to rejumper.

    #22 8 years ago

    Well, I got my external power supply hooked up, but the chips still do not write. Looks like I will have to order some new ones...

    BTW, these chips were pulled from a Xenon vocalizer board and I thought I could re-program and re-install them in the Xenon board once I was done using them.

    Oh wells... LOL!

    #23 8 years ago

    I'm just looking for a temporary sound solution on my EBD until my S&T is repaired by Andrew!

    #24 8 years ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    For what its worth, 2532 are a pain to burn, but i know for a fact the GQ4X can handle that EPROM in your picture, i have used them.

    Are you using the generic 2532 device? There is no Motorola device to choose from in the menu. Thanks

    #25 8 years ago

    I too have accumulated a few of those MCM2532Cs that just won't program. Currently I use Advin SpeedPro 280A which has an external power supply.

    My notes say to use the TI SMJ2532 setting for them but that still won't work on the last remaining few I have.

    #26 8 years ago
    Quoted from MrBellMan:

    Are you using the generic 2532 device? There is no Motorola device to choose from in the menu. Thanks

    I use a generic profile if there it is not listed. Start with the lowest voltage and work your way up. If it still refuses to burn nuke it in the eraser for a long time, 30min or so and try again. If it still doesnt work, throw it away, it is done. Sometimes the EPROMs just crap the bed and no longer work.

    Andrew

    4 months later
    #27 8 years ago

    Bringing this up because I just got a bunch of 2532s from Eprom Man and all but one won't read as blank. I put them in the UV eraser and they get to reading 0x000F8000 - All F8 for each byte. Anyone run into this? Because of this they will not write. Tried using different device settings but they are all the same on the outcome - no blank check and won't write.

    I'm using the GQ-4X programmer. I've done a 2532 before, these are just strange.

    Also, just noticing that re-reading a chip just gives a different checksum every time!

    #28 8 years ago

    How long did you leave them in the eraser? Does the light come on in the eraser?

    #29 8 years ago

    Yes, they are erasing, going to leave them in there longer. The chips are listed as TMS 2532A-45JL. the 2532JL is listed as supported but not the 2532A so I'm confused as to whether these even should work. And disappointed to spend a bunch just for these chips to have them not work.

    If I could easily convert the Sys 6 sound board to 2732s I certainly would but then I would have avoided spending all the $$$ buying 2532s in the first place. Blerg. I have programmed a 2532 with my GQ-4X so I know some work.

    #30 8 years ago

    Weird thing: the one I can get to erase, writes the first byte of data, then fails, erase, write one byte, fail, repeatedly.

    #31 8 years ago
    Quoted from shimoda:

    Bringing this up because I just got a bunch of 2532s from Eprom Man and all but one won't read as blank. I put them in the UV eraser and they get to reading 0x000F8000 - All F8 for each byte. Anyone run into this? Because of this they will not write. Tried using different device settings but they are all the same on the outcome - no blank check and won't write.
    I'm using the GQ-4X programmer. I've done a 2532 before, these are just strange.
    Also, just noticing that re-reading a chip just gives a different checksum every time!

    Sounds like a bad chip or not erased all the way.... I have gotten entire sleeves of used EPROMs and none of them worked after erasing the data. So it is possible the chips to be failed.

    Put one of them back in the eraser for like 30 minutes, yeah that is a long time, but try it with one of those 2532s. I have had some skunky old ones take FOREVER to erase. Try using the TMS2532JL profile too.

    I have had to complain to EPROMMan before about bad eproms. He took care of the issue and sent me a different brand. I honestly have better luck with remarks from china.

    Andrew

    #32 8 years ago

    I tried erasing them all but many wouldn't. Epromman is making it right and sending me the Hitachi 2532s (which the GQ-4X claims to support). I did try all 2532 profiles but none worked on the two chips I was able to blank.

    #33 8 years ago

    Word of advice... stay away from TMSXXXX (texas instruments) branded EPROMs. I have the absolute worst luck with reusing those in the smaller EPROM sizes. I will pull all sorts of brands of EPROMs off of boards and most of the time i can reuse them. Often i can erase but not reburn a TMSXXXX chip.

    #34 8 years ago

    I've gotten TMS 2732s from him and had no issues. Hopefully that stays the same way as I don't really know where else to get chips at a decent price.

    #35 8 years ago
    Quoted from shimoda:

    I've gotten TMS 2732s from him and had no issues. Hopefully that stays the same way as I don't really know where else to get chips at a decent price.

    I fired EPROMMan and use Chinese remarks. THey work fine and come in clean with no labels and pre erased. I sent off some best price offers to"green-century" on ebay and they accepted around 70 cents per eprom recently. I have used probably 300+ 2716 and 2732 EPROMs from that source on eBay. You get a few bad ones, probably the same % i was getting from EPROMMan, but they came in nice shape. They are remarked/refinished.

    TMS eproms are like AMI PIAs... they work... sometimes. hah

    #36 8 years ago

    here is the eBay source. Your results may vary, but this has worked great for me.

    ebay.com link: itm

    #37 8 years ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    here is the eBay source. Your results may vary, but this has worked great for me.
    ebay.com link

    Thanks for this tip!!!

    #38 8 years ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    I fired EPROMMan and use Chinese remarks. THey work fine and come in clean with no labels and pre erased ... They are remarked/refinished.

    Not speaking for EPROMMan - I have never dealt with him... but --

    Remarks = counterfeit. Regardless of whether they work or not - they are purposely misrepresenting what you are getting. Some people have no problems buying from obvious fake part sellers... some do not. I would rather pay more and buy them from an honest seller who pays more to get genuine parts rather than low-balling counterfeiters who sell cheap parts that have been remarked to give their customers a warm fuzzy. If enough people stop buying from honest sellers and only buy from these counterfeiters then there will be no honest sellers remaining.

    ... and now ducking to put on flame proof jacket.

    #39 8 years ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    ... and now ducking to put on flame proof jacket.

    Don't think you'll need it. Many of us share the same opinion. Well said on the remark/counterfeit topic

    #40 8 years ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    Not speaking for EPROMMan - I have never dealt with him... but --
    Remarks = counterfeit. Regardless of whether they work or not - they are purposely misrepresenting what you are getting. Some people have no problems buying from obvious fake part sellers... some do not. I would rather pay more and buy them from an honest seller who pays more to get genuine parts rather than low-balling counterfeiters who sell cheap parts that have been remarked to give their customers a warm fuzzy. If enough people stop buying from honest sellers and only buy from these counterfeiters then there will be no honest sellers remaining.
    ... and now ducking to put on flame proof jacket.

    I go through hundreds of EPROMs a year in 2716 / 2732 sizes. What are my options... I can buy EPROMmans shitty used pulls with labels, gunk, need to be erased or I can buy remarks that work, very clean, pre erased, legs refinished. They are installed in hundreds of happy customer's boards.

    I am sure you have had the pleasure of scraping off old labels from EPROMS. I will gladly pay the chinese to do that for me.

    #41 8 years ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    "scraping off old labels from EPROMS"

    Ain't nobody got time for that!

    ANGTFT.jpgANGTFT.jpg

    #42 8 years ago

    Yeah, I hear ya. For some parts, there aren't many alternatives.
    If going the Chinese route - at least go with one that sells legit parts that aren't remarked. They do exist.
    The supplier in the link above had tons of counterfeits listed on his ebay auctions - very blatant counterfeits.

    #43 8 years ago

    I've got two cases of 27C512's with labels on them. They were all programmed enmasse, labelled and then never used.
    Got them pretty cheaply but it takes time to remove label and erase them. As stated above, "Ain't nobody got time for that"!
    Also bought a bunch of new 27C512's and a few other sizes while they were on LTB. Never listed them, "Ain't got time for that".

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