I can only imagine what were going to see in the future with Internet connectivity and that LCD. I think it's only a matter if time until advertising starts appearing in our homes. It's clear based on the cc decision jack made, he's not in this for the pinball "community" but to make money. Which is fine, but don't spin it differently.

Thats not the point and I wouldn't. But no way should I have to get some cc and spend half of what my machine cost for extra software modes. Even thinking this was a good idea makes me question what I thought JJP was as a company. It's very disappointing

I hear ya. Great points. Maybe just make it where using the card unlocks the modes right away and not using it actually makes a player earn it to access one of these new modes. Even if that is the case how many people will actuly use the feature?

Won't have to as any of those new modes will be accessible at home on your machine. At least thats how I interrupted Jacks comments.

i know you feel the need to defend the decision making at JJP but you're missing the point. why should we have to sign up for a card, or do anything additional, to get the modes and complete code we were promised when paying for the game?

i interrupted them differently based the minimal effort by Jack to defuse the current uproar.

He rarely does.

You did not read my posts. I am against the use of a credit card to earn new modes. My comment was that I wouldn't mind having a credit card that earns me money "towards a new pin from JJP" like you earn Disney points or anything else on a credit card.

A new pin is different than a mode on a pin I own.

Seriously we knew DLC was coming from vids to pins eventually.
In a resurgence..... I wonder why I feel so ill about the state of our hobby =/

Hey if they shut our pins off remotely in the future we can just charge to "unlock" them.

You know just like an Iphone.

Just full of good ideas.

Limiting it to $300 is a non-starter. I rack up nearly $1K for when our family goes to Disney. If there is enough money going to the sponsor (i.e. Disney), then there needs to be enough incentive for us to acquire the card and use it regularly.

For a company that sold itself on the premise that it would not engage in "tiered features" like Stern's LEs, this has all the signs of a colossal misstep. Not only are they pulling an LE bait and switch they're forcing buyers into a credit card to do it.

For those comparing this to DLC in videogames, these types of shenanigans are different in extremely important ways. For one, there's a huge difference between paying $50 for something and buying DLC on top, versus paying $6500+!

For two, once a videogame has been out for a few months, the price drops and they're often sold as a bundle with DLC included. Even for popular games it happens after six months or a year. Thus, the game is still accessible to all, you might just have to wait awhile.

Another very different distinction with most zero day videogame DLC is that a team with a completely separate P&L is working on the DLC, not the core game team. When they offer the DLC available on day zero, it's often viewed as a separate game completely internally as far as P&L sheets go.

What if we just chill for now to see how this unravels?
Jack said that he doesn't want to "build walls" so I'd suggest that we give him the benefit of the doubt until we see what this extra code thing is.
You guys all seem to be getting upset at the concept more than the actual outcome.
I'm with ya as far as hating the actual concept of buying a pin and not getting all the code, but just relax for now.
I seriously doubt that JJP would stick it to his loyal clients the way this appears currently.

People funded the company by paying in full almost two years before recieving thier WOZ and appear to be paying good coin well in advance of the Hobbit as well. Now out of the blue you come up with a way to force these supporters to get a credit card to get all the code updates for WOZ?

I hope this turns out to be absolutely false and that all future code updates will be made available to all supporters/customers. If it ends up being true then it is truely bad form IMO. If they go through with this I will serously consider not buying any of their future releases.

I sure don't see what most of you are saying when Jack himself said:

Jersey Jack:

"Stand down everyone, LOL- whatever we do, whenever we do it, the extra mode or whatever will be in your software version as well."

The main gimmick with the CC was that people could earn points towards buying a JJP product if they selected that reward. If they use the CC to pay for a game on location, it would have a fancy splash screen that only shows up when the CC is used.

People that own their own WOZ aren't missing out on a thing from what I see.

I'm seriously considering it simply based on this press release. it just shows very poor judgment from JJP, even if they do backtrack themselves out of it. It's not the first time they've made horrible decisions and based on their track record, it won't be the last. (unless it's all a prank from those guys at Stern and it's a fake press release.)

Thanks GaryMartin, I am out of the loop and was hoping that this extra code thing only for those that get a credit card was false. Glad to hear it is likely not going to happen that way.

This sounds like code beyond a feature complete game. Imagine having to pay for new code for Spiderman down the road after the game was complete. Based on the rule screens released for WOZ the game will have the deepest ruleset in pinball in my opinion.

If a couple modes come out a year down the road after the rules in those screens is complete I don't have a problem with this. Also, Jack already said that home owners would get these modes and I'm sure he realizes that home owners are not going to buy the eplate reader.

thank you for clarifying, and since jack said "lol", everything is just a big misunderstanding.

so you get a fancy splash screen every six months for spending 4$k on a CC?

"This represents a real breakthrough for our pinball players, rewarding them for their love of the game, with exclusive game reward modes on our awesome new WOZ and Hobbit machines," said Jack Guarnieri, CEO of Jersey Jack Pinball. "Consumers who choose my reward can earn and download exclusive game modes simply by using their ePlate®."

Buying a pin from a manufacturer should guarantee that you get all future updates without further payment IMO. Not even Stern does this madness. If they come up with an update way after a release like on TRON it is free for all customers. That is the way it should be the other option you describe sounds like BS to me. If a future release comes out for the game then the prior version was not 'complete' IMO.

I hear its a 2 year wait for the credit card.....

On a serious note its all about the $$$ and just another way to generate money from the customers pocket to theirs.

As much as I dislike Microsquat you buy one of their OS's for $100 and you get service packs and updates.
Drop several grand on a pinball machine and the code should be updated, cost free.

Not cool!!!

+1 I think it is clear that WOZ owners hate the idea of having to pay extra for further modes, and it seems fairly clear, at least, that that is not going to happen.

Jack emailed this to me.

ALL SOFTWARE IS THE SAME IN EVERY GAME - THERE IS NOTHING TO BUY OR UNLOCK

We will add a splash screen in attract mode to promote their card in commercial locations

Finally, a clear answer?

Everyone I've shared this with so far has had the same reaction: negative, and that they'll have to get a CC and spend 4k on it to get a complete game.

If this is a case of miscommunication, it was an especially poor one.

Press releases typically go through a ton of drafts with a careful eye for how they'll be received and perceived. My "more likely scenario" detector says the feedback was so immediately negative they slammed on the breaks and threw it into reverse.

So the ePlate people are false advertising that by using their card it will unlock modes in the game?????

As an operator, how much is my cut for displaying this advertising on a machine I purchase for route?

Can I disable this splash screen?

Judging by the original press release in comparison the retraction above, JJP has made an about face on whatever they had originally planned. Obviously this is a feature that has yet to be coded. Without the "bitching and moaning" here on Pinside, who knows what this would have actually become. Good job!

I'm not sure which way this whole ePlate thing is going but the fact that we even have to discuss this is stupid. I like Jack and everything these guys are doing, but this just sounds ridiculous.

If you want to sell extra content or upgrades etc - do it like everyone else DLC thru a service. Rebuild your website - wifi/bluetooth enable the woz do exclusive online content downloads by mobile. Verify a code you need to enter just like WoW mobile authenticator so people can't steal it.

forget about credit card companies and all this other crap, one thing this country doesn't need is more people in debt, and unless your going to offer me a $1000 discount on a WoZ by buying it with this specific credit card, this is a bad idea.

Standard code should be universal for tournament play and any LE or route guys.

Build extra downloadable content like:

Turn Toto into a tiger during Toto escape mode 99¢
super extra crazy hard mode cow tornado mode: 99¢
play angry birds on the LED display: $1.50
JJP remote - airplay your Ipad or mobile device to the monitor (play pandora and other streaming content thru your WoZ)

Let me know if you want to hire me - because so far this idea sounds terrible

Press release.
Public discussion .
Press re-release / retraction.
(oops)

Seems public discussion was against the original intent and I am glad the "bitching and moaning" seemed to worked.
It was a pretty tacky idea as originally floated IMHO.

I just got off the phone with the ePlate guys, and they were adamant that this announcement was about getting new modes for WOZ that would not otherwise be available. Details don't exist, but the example I was given was a new wizard mode. It would be tied to the serial number on your USB port. Nothing about splash screens or whatever was mentioned, was all about game code.

So I dunno, I told them they'd better talk to Jack, because the messaging is super confusing/inconsistent right now.

Wow. I really hope this turns out not to be true. This is a bad road to go down ...

Jack earns money if you use his credit card - so this is good because it keeps him in business.

Jack earns money if you spend your eplate points on a new pin - so this is good because it keeps him in business.

Now if you have to spend $4,000.00 on your eplate card to unlock hidden modes in your game, this earns money for Jack and it lets you get a new mode to look forward to in the future.

I called Jack to get his side, but he's supposed to call me back. I do think there's a conversation to be had as a community about DLC and pinballs, this is just the first salvo.

Jack keeps Jack in business by not jacking his customers.

Jack just posted a few ago in the MMR thread.

I'm surprised he did not stop by and fill us in on the details of the eplate.

He's been posting cryptic responses to this whole matter that frankly seem to be making things worse rather than clearing anything up. The press release and the conversation I had with the ePlate guys was pretty damn clear though, so I dunno what to say since Jack isn't calling me back.

You're gonna have to narrow it down a little Vid.

Well, if Jack's got some model for recurring revenue for DLC, I don't like it... but if it's inevitable, first make sure everyone's happy with the software features "as is" and that these feature would definitely be considered above and beyond, but then offer people an affordable way to "subscribe" that doesn't involve a credit card NOT EVEN AVAILABLE OUTSIDE THE US!

Bwahahaha!

Yeah, I tried to explain to the ePlate guy that DLC wasn't gonna go over well right now with machines shipping with such incomplete code. That goes for Stern and JJP. If they were done and it was really extra icing, and not the cake itself it might be different.

If Stern said for instance, we'll give you a new wizard mode on Tron for $25, would people complain or be stoked?

I'd be bummed ... because I don't have a Tron. Seriously, if this was introduced after the pin was considered complete, then it sounds like a pretty good idea. But, I wouldn't want to have the slightest inclination that the new mode should have been in the game to start with.

Sounds like a good way to kill pinball for good except for the guys remaking old titles. They won't have to charge for game features, they are already in the games.

If that extra icing for WoZ helps make TH ship incomplete?

IMHO the bottom line is that as long as pins are shipping incomplete, DLC is bullsh!t. You sell me a finished product and then want to charge more for extras later? We can talk.

As long as pinball makers think they can ship half baked code no one is gonna like this.

I think if in another year they sold an alternate software package for $300 - 500, so that basically you could have a whole new game, I would be super stoked. And if it's "serious" software, as opposed to novelty fluff, then I think Ops would be excited as well.

Fear of piracy would probably keep it from happening though. Pinheads will spend 10k on a game but gripe over a buck to play on location. It would turn into people stealing it then justifying it as "it should have been free".

I don't think its been announced yet as to when these new modes would be coming out. Doesn't really matter as everyone will be getting them for free according to Jack.

If they did DLC say a year after the last update and the games software is complete with a very deep ruleset I would be fine with it. How many people would now pay for new modes in LOTR and the TSPP if that was possible? I bet a lot would since the game has been out for a while.

Just check out what we are getting with WOZ. I like a lot of pinball machines but based on the rule screens shown below and in the video WOZ should have the deepest ruleset in pinball and this is before any modes that are released as a result of this Eplate feature.

http://img-f.pinside.com/201304/782325/89055.jpg
http://img-f.pinside.com/201304/782325/89056.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/embed/0dHZmjfZhuk?autoplay=1&rel=0