Never tried them, I go with old faithful Duracell's. So far so good

They do last much longer than regular batteries, but since you should be changing your batteries every year or so, it isn't going to make a difference.

Alkalines slowly drain over time, even if they aren't hooked to anything. Lithiums do this at a much slower rate, in addition to the higher mah rating per battery, which is why they have 10 year expiration dates to them.

Biggest advantage of all....... lithiums don't puke like alkalines do. You could theoretically run for a decade or more on a set of batteries.

-Hans

Saves your settings, scores, and audits.

Lithiums technically CAN leak, but they are generally constructed better to prevent it and it occurs far less often. As long as it vents any internal pressure, a lithium shouldn't leak. Here's a good explanation of how the leaks actually occur.....

http://knol.google.com/k/everything-you-need-to-know-about-primary-battery-leakage#

The batteries are there only to maintain the settings and scores, but you do need them in place to get the machine to boot, and it normally won't boot without a good battery.

There's a lot of options out there too, so don't think that you have to go with any particular one. Remote packs for alkalines are good, swapping to lithiums is good, chips are available that allow you to run NO batteries in some machines. Some guys even run certain capacitors that do the same job, as long as you have the machine on for at least a hour per month. I've personally switched both of my machines over to take 2032 lithium coin cells, but am considering going with non-volatile RAM and just eliminating all the batteries completely.

The only thing you really need to be concerned with is that the blocking diodes are in good shape, as lithiums can pop if you try to charge them up. Then again, alkalines do the same thing too. Lithiums also react badly if you soak them in liquid water for long enough, but I've yet to see a pinball machine that you would want wet circuit boards on.

There's no need to do the annual swap with lithiums either. The reason you do that with alkalines is because they leak when discharged too far, but a totally discharged lithium becomes inert and won't leak in that situation. Heck, lithiums become SO inert when they're dead that the EPA actually allows dead disposable lithiums to be thrown out in the trash.

-Hans

Do the newer Stern games have batteries that need to be changed out every year?

I've been using them as I swap out the alkalines. Not cheap, but after having to clean up one machine from a leak, (it did help me get the machine for $300 cheaper) and doing the same research Hans mentions, I figured changing them every 5 years should be cheaper in the long run. I guess if you are into flipping games enough, it's probably not the best idea, unless you want to use it for a small selling point.

I will never buy another energizer. They are inferior to Duracell and I have had them corrode in package and thrown away 20 or more from leaking.

I'm getting confused .....whats the better choice ?

Resurrecting an old post ... I was in Home Cheapo tonight to pick up stuff and plunked down over $50 for three packages of Energizer's "new and improved" Lithium batteries. I was overdue to replace my AA-fed pins, so an upgrade they will get!

Considering a remote battery pack sets you back $12+ It think this is a fair compromise, and keeps things looking stock.

Incidentally, anyone else ever personally have a Lithium puke?

havent had any leak since i started using them a few years ago.

One advantage to these are in Gottlieb System 3s with a remote holder. Some don't work with alkaline batteries in the holder but supposedly do with lithium AAs. I personally have not confirmed this but it is something to consider if you have a Sys3.

viperrwk

Id recommend the Ultimates!

DSC08587.JPG

No. The newer Sterns using S.A.M. Systems boards which have a single CR2430 Lithium coin cell that should last 10 years without leaking. The change over from White Star to S.A.M. took place in 2006 and 2007. I have seen 20 year old CR2430 cells that are still holding voltage and not leaking.

The White Star CPU boards took 3 AA batteries and need to be changed every year or two.

If you are not sure, look up the machine on ipdb which tells which System board your ss pinball machine uses.

Maybe this is a stupid question as well, but why don't pins use EEPROMs to store all of the settings and high scores?

Good question.
Historically, has to do with the limited number of times you could write to an EEPROM and cost compared to SRAM. However, modern EEPROMS make those differences less significant. But you would then have to design the board to support the higher write voltages required to update an EEPROM.

viperrwk

Remote battery packs cost about 1-2 bucks if you make your own 10-20 units at a time. It's not a hard thing to make.

John, you've been around a long time. Penny-tech remote packs are a viable option - I just never went that route ... I'm curious what you think about long-term solutions like NVRAM or Lithium Batteries (coin or new aa replacements)

I'm in progress of converting *almost* all of my games to NVRAM.

The only downside I've found is that RTC (real time clock) doesn't work with NVRAM. It's not an issue on most games. A few games have a special 'midnight madness' mode that depends on RTC; and TZ matches the clock on the playfield to the RTC

So, my TZ gets a remote holder with 3 alkalines.

Cost is a concern on NVRAM, I bought enough to outfit all my games and got the cost down to around $15 a game. But, the supplies of DIP NVRAM are pretty much nil at this point, so you have to use an adapter.

Even at $30 a game through somewhere like Big Daddy Enterprises, I still think it's a viable option if you are capable of installing it. One board repair that involves cleaning up battery damage will cost more than that, even if you do it yourself!

Lithium batteries don't impress me. I'd rather do a remote battery holder with inexpensive alkalines first. The amount of work to neutralize lithium and clean it up doesn't sound like it's as friendly as cleaning up Alkaline - which is no fun at all!

FWIW, games going through my workshop will be leaving with NVRAM going forward, unless the game has a RTC, in which case it will get a remote holder with regular alkalines.

Thanks John. Very good info here. Never knew about the RTC.

I'm testing out NVRAM in my Centaur. No complaints so far.

Putting the Lithiums in my DMD games for now. May slowly migrate to NVRAM.

Regards,

Brian

I thought there was a post on a lithium that leaked once but I cannot find it.

Just installed a NVRAM into my Data East Simpsons. Easy trade out of the old RAM and remove the batteries. I love it! No batteries required anymore.

ebay.com link: itm

I remember a post where someone installed a lithium battery on a board that originally used rechargeable batteries and a blocking diode wasn't installed. The lithium battery blew up and made a horrendous mess.

I just purchased some lithiums to use in my self made remote battery holders.

I could find no records of lithiums horribly going wrong of their own accord (user error or game malfunction is a different matter...).

I just figured it would be easier than changing out alkalines every year and half, then sequestering the still good for many things used alkalines until they are used up in toys etc.

NVRAM was the other option, but at $30 a game I figured Lithium + already installed remote packs seemed reasonable.

One less piece of routine pinball maintenance to do.

That might have been what I was thinking about.

I'm certainly not an expert here, but I can say from personal experience that I switched to AA lithiums (Energizer brand) a couple of years ago. I recently pulled a few to test, and they all showed 80% of life left or better remaining! Not one of them was leaking or appeared to have any signs of impending leaks. I'm guessing I can go for a few more years safely with them in place, but I'll keep a watchful eye on them just to make sure.

I would NOT recommend Duracell's. I had some new ones leak (2016 date) in 3 different devices.
Whirlwind, Logitec mouse and my Hensoldt scope illumination device.

If its an expensive and hard to replace item like night vision or electronic equipment I will stick with Lithium AA batteries. I never had an issue with Energizer brand and will use them and my disposible AA power source.

I get mine at Home depot, not sure if their prices are the best, Im always there picking up materials. I would be very worried about Ebay batteries.

edit---17.97 is HDepot's price for the 8-pack

This is a good deal (Sealed in packing)
ebay.com link: itm

I corrected the link (1839 positive feedback selling batteries.)
ebay.com link: itm

Good to know Cal ... loaded all my DMD pins with Energizer Lithiums last night.

Brian

Don't forget, there are lots of real looking, counterfeit batteries floating around... if a deal is too good to be true...

I just bought em. 23 bucks, I'll take a shot!

Rick. "I'm gonna have me some fun." #190

These are a little cheaper then ebay linked above:

http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Photo-Lithium-Battery-Bundle/dp/B001NP9WJQ/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

$1.67 vs $1.89 each

I've been using these batteries for the past 5 years with no issues at all in my games. The only issue I did come across was that a couple of batteries had the polarity reversed on them which killed the batteries that were paired with them in the game. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why the game wasn't holding scores so I tested them with the DMM. If you have a local Sam's Club then you can get them there for a decent price.
http://www.samsclub.com/sams/energizer-ultimate-lithium-aa-12-pk/prod1500218.ip?navAction=

I just buy SAMs club energizers and change them every year

I like the idea of only having to change the batteries every few years but I think if you still have them mounted to the boards its a gamble im not willing to take. Every product has a failure rate. If you get comfortable with leaving them in for 3,4, or 5 years eventually one is going to fail and leak. Energizers, Duracell, alkaline or lithium, doesnt matter they are not 100% fail proof. Everything fails, some more than others but nothing is perfect. I will continue to change them once a year.

I've gotten in the habit of checking mine just before the Allentown show every year. That way I never forget when I last checked them!

Are these "Photo-Lithium" better than the Ultimate?

I think they are the same, but look at the other photos, they come in an open box, could be fakes, who knows?

The same date is a great idea. Robin also added battery change dates you can add to your collection on Pinside if you want to track the dates here.

After reading everything here and doing a little checking on my own I'm switching to lithiums.......unless I decide to go the NVRAM route.