(Topic ID: 204758)

End of Stroke Concern/Ball Cradle Transistor Burn Out


By mrm_4

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 12 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by dasvis
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 1 year ago

    Recently my transistor burnt up on the board from holding the left flipper in to cradle a ball. Replaced transistor. This has really changed how I play because Im afraid of it happening again so I no longer cradle. Talking to a friend about it he mentioned that the end of stroke switch should've kept that from happening and maybe it was a fluke occurrence. I checked my switch and Im under the impression the contacts are supposed to be apart and when the flipper is up it pushes them together and activates the switch. However the EOS switch contacts on my machine are touching and then are separated when the flipper is up. I think this is wrong, when I do a switch test in the diagnostics, the DMD says NONE, then when I move the flipper up it says NONE then when I let the flipper go back down its says the EOS switch is open and stays displayed until I touch another switch. No other switches on the game tests that way. Are these things on backwards or something??? The pic shows what the switch looks like when the flipper is down. Should the switch be flipped over and bent slightly apart so contact is made when the flipper is up?

    IMG_2667 (resized).JPG

    #2 1 year ago

    Waiting for a response I found this video and between 2-3 mins I think this guy confirms my suspicion but Im too new at this to know if its the same for ALL machines or if some companies reversed the design.

    #3 1 year ago

    Any thoughts this ltg ? I think some of the best answers I find on pinside are usually from you.

    #4 1 year ago

    So your machine is a stern and the video is a Williams. Also what game are we talking about? Pin tech did change from a NC EOS which breaks the circuit on the pull in coil to a NO EOS which modulates the voltage to the coil to prevent it from burning out.

    Typically flipper coils that only use 2 lugs are Normally Open so the mpu knows when to start the modulation. You'll want to verify this by supplying the machine name so other owners can chime in.

    #5 1 year ago
    Quoted from Cheddar:

    You'll want to verify this by supplying the machine name so other owners can chime in.

    Its a Transformers LE
    I guess what was confusing to me is the way the switch test reads that its activate after the flipper is down but doesn't start off that way. Seems odd -enter test with nothing- -Move flipper up with finger = nothing- -let flipper go = switch activates- But I'm still learning so any explanation is appreciated!

    #6 1 year ago

    Did you compare the left EOS with the right? Do they look the same? On some machines the EOS is closed when the flipper is at rest and on others it is open. Not sure what yours should be.

    #7 1 year ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:

    Recently my transistor burnt up on the board from holding the left flipper in to cradle a ball. Replaced transistor. This has really changed how I play because Im afraid of it happening again so I no longer cradle. Talking to a friend about it he mentioned that the end of stroke switch should've kept that from happening and maybe it was a fluke occurrence. I checked my switch and Im under the impression the contacts are supposed to be apart and when the flipper is up it pushes them together and activates the switch. However the EOS switch contacts on my machine are touching and then are separated when the flipper is up. I think this is wrong, when I do a switch test in the diagnostics, the DMD says NONE, then when I move the flipper up it says NONE then when I let the flipper go back down its says the EOS switch is open and stays displayed until I touch another switch. No other switches on the game tests that way. Are these things on backwards or something??? The pic shows what the switch looks like when the flipper is down. Should the switch be flipped over and bent slightly apart so contact is made when the flipper is up?

    your manual tells you that your flipper EOS switch is a 180-5149-00 - you search that, you find it's a normally closed switch. That means it should be closed and making contact until the flipper hits the End of stroke position, where it then opens.

    So when you are in the diagnostics, the dedicated switch for flipper EOS should appear 'made' until you manually move the flipper and it should open in the last 1/8" or so of travel.

    I think you are reading the diagnostics wrong... one mode will show you the current switch states, one will show you the LAST switch hit.

    Note Stern also had a period of time with SAM games where their transistors they used for the flippers sucked, and holding a flipper for an extended period would blow the transistor.. even when EoS was fine. The fix is using a more robust transistor. This started around AC/DC era. I don't recall transformers being particularlly susceptible to this.. but TF was right before AC/DC

    #8 1 year ago

    Although I've never actually seen official confirmation of this from Stern, the general understanding seems to be that your game should work fine (and not blow fuses or transistors) even if the EOS was completely removed from the game. I know this is how WPC and Data East games work from experience; they don't need the EOS to work to function safely. WPC even gives an error message if it notices the EOS is malfunctioning, but will ignore it to keep the game going, and I can't imagine Stern games don't, although at the moment I don't have any Stern games to test on.

    #9 1 year ago

    depends on the flipper and driver design...

    Stern's are single wound, pulse modulated flippers. So the CPU controls high vs low power using pulsing. Without the EoS, it doesn't know when to goto low power. I don't know if stern has software compensation for that or not.

    #10 1 year ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Note Stern also had a period of time with SAM games where their transistors they used for the flippers sucked, and holding a flipper for an extended period would blow the transistor.. even when EoS was fine. The fix is using a more robust transistor. This started around AC/DC era. I don't recall transformers being particularlly susceptible to this.. but TF was right before AC/DC

    I read this in several threads when I was in the middle of the fix for the transistor and installed IRL540Ns and also removed capacitors 52 and 53, which Chas from Stern emailed me and told me removing those capacitors was a modification done to that board. If the root cause truly was poor transistors to begin with, then I can stomach that being that I replaced them, but I was digging for potentially a different root cause. So I guess the real question is, should I go back to cradling during multi ball and stop worrying about the board burning up again?

    #11 1 year ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:

    I read this in several threads when I was in the middle of the fix for the transistor and installed IRL540Ns and also removed capacitors 52 and 53, which Chas from Stern emailed me and told me removing those capacitors was a modification done to that board. If the root cause truly was poor transistors to begin with, then I can stomach that being that I replaced them, but I was digging for potentially a different root cause. So I guess the real question is, should I go back to cradling during multi ball and stop worrying about the board burning up again?

    I wouldn't worry unless it happens again with the new parts.

    #12 1 year ago

    It happened to me & the local barcade on a MET pro. I was cradling the ball bullshitting with the manager of the place & smoked a transistor. Damn, and I was having a good game too.

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