(Topic ID: 321365)

Employment issues and work ethic 8-2022.

By gdonovan

1 year ago


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There are 870 posts in this topic. You are on page 18 of 18.
#851 1 year ago
Quoted from nwpinball:

Ah yes, because the healthcare industry isn't crappy and completely overpriced, benefitting seedy corporate healthcare companies and their investors over the healthcare of their clients. I wait weeks to months to get an appointment now, have much higher copays and billing, and the level of care has dropped dramatically over the past decade. The healthcare industry in America is broken and overpriced.

Insurance industry has a lot to do with this.

Quoted from Jamesays:

Yes its crazy the amount of waste we produce,Would be nice if we could figure out ways to use some of these things.I know some places donate to food banks and such,I would like to see more.

Food waste is a sad and terrible thing, no doubt. Another sad truth is that people who are going hungry or are homeless almost always have access to food. Thats not to say we shouldn't cut down on waste, and there isn't improvements we can make, and by all means donate as much as you can, but access to food isn't a huge problem for almost anyone in the US.

#852 1 year ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Insurance industry has a lot to do with this.

Food waste is a sad and terrible thing, no doubt. Another sad truth is that people who are going hungry or are homeless almost always have access to food. Thats not to say we shouldn't cut down on waste, and there isn't improvements we can make, and by all means donate as much as you can, but access to food isn't a huge problem for almost anyone in the US.

You want to talk about food waste? You should have seen the last 2 years in schools when they have everyone a “free” lunch who wanted one. Made me sick as a schoolteacher to see all that waste.

#853 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

You are assuming I'm only referring to the business itself

It's really simple.. who do you blame for all those personal choices except for the person themselves? What excuses or justification are there for those choices?

Quoted from Zablon:

I won't be thankful I have a job. You should be thankful you have me. I realize that can problematic when they don't want to show up at all, but that might be what we are facing for awhile.

You summed up entitlement as a justification for being a shitty person in your role. Let that sink in.

Why are we defending poor behavior as a response to your voluntary work position? If you don't like the work or the boss.. leave. That distain does not justify being a crappy person to other people. Even in leaving someone should display common courtesies and expectations.

#854 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

It's really simple.. who do you blame for all those personal choices except for the person themselves? What excuses or justification are there for those choices?

You summed up entitlement as a justification for being a shitty person in your role. Let that sink in.
Why are we defending poor behavior as a response to your voluntary work position? If you don't like the work or the boss.. leave. That distain does not justify being a crappy person to other people. Even in leaving someone should display common courtesies and expectations.

No, contrary to what I think about american business in general I'm not justifying anything on that front. I'm stating the mentality switch. I'm not saying that specific behavior was right. I said, things have changed and as such, you must adjust to compensate. Someone has to, and if those people don't care about your business, what makes you think they are going to change? You care way more than they do because you have a vested interest. You can stomp and complain about it, but that isn't going to make them change.

#855 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

I'm stating the mentality switch. I'm not saying that specific behavior was right. I said, things have changed and as such, you must adjust to compensate. Someone has to, and if those people don't care about your business, what makes you think they are going to change? You care way more than they do because you have a vested interest. You can stomp and complain about it, but that isn't going to make them change.

I will call it out for what it is instead of trying to normalize it or justifying it as many in this very thread have.

People can chose to suck - that doesn’t mean we should all just start to accept it.

Whatever happened to just trying to do the best at whatever you are doing? Following through on your commitments? Respecting others?

Nothing about other people having bad bosses or bad pay justifies you as an individual giving up these simple principles.

#856 1 year ago

I once had a guy tell me he was unemployed because there is no work in L A. You should be lucky I work for you is Hilarious.

#857 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I will call it out for what it is instead of trying to normalize it or justifying it as many in this very thread have.
People can chose to suck - that doesn’t mean we should all just start to accept it.
Whatever happened to just trying to do the best at whatever you are doing? Following through on your commitments? Respecting others?
Nothing about other people having bad bosses or bad pay justifies you as an individual giving up these simple principles.

Yes, I get it. You've repeated the same thing repeatedly. The other things people are bringing up are parts of a bigger picture that is contributing to the shortage of workers and the general lack of enthusiasm. The nuance I'm trying to get you to understand is you can lament the state of things, or you can look at how to change it in a way that works for you. You aren't going to change those that don't want to work. The question is how do you make it work for you (or anyone else having trouble hiring decent employees right now). As has been pointed out, many of the good employees have been otherwise employed elsewhere. So the question then becomes, how do you get those employees to want to work for you rather than you trying to get the bad employees to be good employees. The pandemic and other factors have, at least in the meantime, changed many peoples outlook and perception of what they will tolerate in employment. It's time to start thinking outside the box.

None of this is implying you or any other business owners around here are bad employers. It's a generalization of the overall state of things.

#858 1 year ago
Quoted from Jamesays:

I once had a guy tell me he was unemployed because there is no work in L A. You should be lucky I work for you is Hilarious.

I don't know that anyone has ever actually said it, unlike the 'you should be lucky to have a job' which I have heard employers say to employees multiple times. My statement wasn't what I thought, but what I see is the overall mentality these days. Is it right or wrong? I'm not sure, but I question working for any employer who would say 'you're lucky to have a job'...especially to good employees expressing concerns.

#859 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

I don't know that anyone has ever actually said it, unlike the 'you should be lucky to have a job' which I have heard employers say to employees multiple times. My statement wasn't what I thought, but what I see is the overall mentality these days. Is it right or wrong? I'm not sure, but I question working for any employer who would say 'you're lucky to have a job'...especially to good employees expressing concerns.

That just came off funny.Its easy when we are having discussions like this to cherry pick parts of a comment and make a stand.At some level we are mostly all right about some of these things.Its cool we can make our points here and not to get angry with each other would be a nice bonus.

#860 1 year ago
Quoted from Jamesays:

That just came off funny.Its easy when we are having discussions like this to cherry pick parts of a comment and make a stand.At some level we are mostly all right about some of these things.Its cool we can make our points here and not to get angry with each other would be a nice bonus.

Yeah, and I enjoy these type of conversations, but most of the time people get agitated. I don't actually disagree with a lot of what flynnibus is saying, I'm just trying to portray the entire picture from more than just a 'i can't find good workers and it's the workers fault' perspective. I don't know him, or the others personally so I can't speak to it. I myself am similar, and got out of management years ago because I realized I am not a good motivator. I too expect people to just do what is expected, and if I have to fix it repeatedly or do it, or constantly coddle their ego then I don't need them. I am much happier as a grunt that asks questions lol. My boss loves me because I just get stuff done, but if it wasn't for having a good boss and team, I'd have been out of there years ago, because I realize I'm just another number.

#861 1 year ago

Stoped at a Subway Sub shop to get my Grand daughter something to eat ! Went to grab for the door - Locked ! Sign on the door - No workers !

#862 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Yes, I get it. You've repeated the same thing repeatedly. The other things people are bringing up are parts of a bigger picture that is contributing to the shortage of workers and the general lack of enthusiasm.

Yet, 'you should look at yourself' is the most repeated retort to those highlighting the real world struggles. You may not be saying it, but that is the repeated attack here in the thread. The retort to challenging real world examples has been to speak in ideal generalizations instead of facing the specifics.

You at least acknowledge things are different... most do not, simply arguing 'people no longer accept less' -- ignoring the standards of behavior are declining. Here you are saying 'adapt'.

I don't want to adapt my standards because customers don't want to adapt what they are willing to tolerate either. Should I change my opening hours day to day simply based on 'adapting' when employees decide when they want to show up? You can't just bend to whatever the most non-committed person is willing to do. You have a product you are putting to the consumer - there are expectations from both you and the consumer on what that interaction will be.

Just like I chastized employers putting 'surcharges' on bills as an excuse to point the finger at labor costs, I would not support someone simply blaming poor work ethic to a customer as justification for why they should accept poor service.

Quoted from Zablon:

The nuance I'm trying to get you to understand is you can lament the state of things, or you can look at how to change it in a way that works for you. You aren't going to change those that don't want to work. The question is how do you make it work for you (or anyone else having trouble hiring decent employees right now). As has been pointed out, many of the good employees have been otherwise employed elsewhere. So the question then becomes, how do you get those employees to want to work for you rather than you trying to get the bad employees to be good employees.

You can't get stuck trying to chase 'the only good employees available'. 1) When hiring into part time roles you must accept people will not stay forever, and the new hire pool is always being refreshed. Simply put.. life ages most of the eligible worker pool out of your job. The market does not support me being able to pay for teacher trying to put 3 kids through college... nor will the customers feel empathy and start accepting some teachers charge 2-3x others do simply because of what happens at home for that employee. There is a price tolerance in the market for the product and labor costs need to stay within targets to make that product viable. By those forces of nature, this business will always be hiring new employees, and only so many will stay long term as they move up the management ladder.

So yes, we are tied to hiring from the 'new worker' pool more than not... so the topic of what workers are doing in general as the norm is very much top of mind.

And if you challenge the part-time role.. know we try to hire full time too, but most do not want a full time role (even with benefits) unless the pay is substantial. People prefer working shifts with less hours per week than actually having stability, PTO, benefits, etc. I think that has most to do with the age demographic you are targeting... which is a necessity in part when your labor budget has market constraints as well.

To answer your 'how do you adapt' challenge.. most people are simply reducing hours and retreating in their offers to be able to operate within the coverage they have. And unfortunately many workers are getting burned out having to do more with less... because they aren't getting the mutual benefit of having the other staff around.

#863 1 year ago
Quoted from TenaciousT:

Stoped at a Subway Sub shop to get my Grand daughter something to eat ! Went to grab for the door - Locked ! Sign on the door - No workers !

They did her a favor honesty.

#864 1 year ago
Quoted from Swainer80:

Why work for McDonald's for a minimum wage only to have the franchise and McDonald's get money off of your labor?

No matter who you are, whether flipping burgers or a corporate CEO, the company is making money off your labor, so if that's your reason for not working, well........

-1
#865 1 year ago
Quoted from pinzrfun:

No matter who you are, whether flipping burgers or a corporate CEO, the company is making money off your labor, so if that's your reason for not working, well........

Yea that’s like if an NBA player complaining they only make $5M while the owners are making much more.

If that’s the case let them make their own league, TV deals, arenas etc. they can do that all and keep the profits.

#866 1 year ago
Quoted from rai:

Yea that’s like if an NBA player complaining they only make $5M while the owners are making much more.
If that’s the case let them make their own league, TV deals, arenas etc. they can do that all and keep the profits.

there's a reason there's a players union, which almost 90% of american workers do not have.

how much work do you think the owners do? there's a reason they're referred to as "team owners" and not by some more illuminating job title.

and the public pays for arenas more often than not.

10
#867 1 year ago
Quoted from misterschu:

and the public pays for arenas more often than not.

That is a peeve of mine as study after study shows the "benefit" to the local economy is never returned.

A franchise rakes in billions, build your own damn stadium.

#868 1 year ago

I'm building my dream welding shop and have had to deal with a lot of people to get the work done and I have learned the most important lesson

How do you know if you got a good contractor ?

.....They show up

#869 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

If you don't like the environment - don't work there. What justifies being a shitty person as a form of 'pay back'??

You are correct. And many of them aren't. The only payback that I'm seeing in that regard is when I go to a drive through and only app or doordash orders are being accepted, the place is flat out closed or the hours are reduced. I've not seen/delt with this "shitty person" phenomenon you describe.

#870 1 year ago

yes you have because that "shitty persons' didn't show show up for work when they said they would...as most of these jobs are for kids just getting into working.....I myself can run a whole McDonalds by myself, just doing app orders and doordash, but not an open restaurant and drive through alone...but the people i blame are their parents, because these same KIDS will come home and walk right past the empty garbage barrels that their parents put out in the morning and not even think of putting them where they belong ......thats what you get when their parents give them a free ride on life

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