(Topic ID: 65974)

Embryon Owners Club & Restoration Thread, Fans Also Welcome


By Hellfire

6 years ago



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  • 559 posts
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  • Latest reply 14 days ago by dluth
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There are 559 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 12.
#251 5 years ago

Could someone here please explain how the flipper wiring in embryon is different than previous bally ss machines? I see a pair of white wires with red trace coming from each flipper leaf switch going into a connector and then feeding into the wire loom and going to the backbox.

Can this be changed without negative repercussions?

It appears that the flippers power is wired similarly, but that the white wire with red trace is possibly for the Flip Save feature? Anyone know for sure?

#252 5 years ago
Quoted from embryon:

About 5 in Australia

Hey Embryon! It's Six now then. He he......
Mines just come in from the USA, keep you posted. I pick it up tomoz morning.
It's crated and packed like the ark of the covinent out of Indy jones...he he, my mates just got to check it over and convert the power.
Loading it with Cointaker Frostys. Makes these baby's GLOW!

#253 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinstronomy:

Hey Embryon! It's Six now then. He he......
Mines just come in from the USA, keep you posted. I pick it up tomoz morning.
It's crated and packed like the ark of the covinent out of Indy jones...he he, my mates just got to check it over and convert the power.
Loading it with Cointaker Frostys. Makes these baby's GLOW!

Great news well done

#254 5 years ago

Hey guys, just bought 2 led flashers for my embryon centre piece but if I install these in the middle section of the chamber no flashers work. If I install them in the top two only those flash. If I install standard flashers they all work. Am I missing something here? Thanks

#255 5 years ago

Are you changing out the three 555 lights with LED's? This shouldn't be a problem, but you need the Alltech lamp driver board, or a 500 ohm resistor with the OEM LDB.

However, if you change out the larger bright lights with LEDs, there is not enough load on the aux lamp board below to activate. You would need to solder a 500 ohm resistor between the lamp socket terminals on those to have the circuitry "see" a load to operate the LEDs.

#256 5 years ago
Quoted from embryon:

Hey guys, just bought 2 led flashers for my embryon centre piece but if I install these in the middle section of the chamber no flashers work. If I install them in the top two only those flash. If I install standard flashers they all work. Am I missing something here? Thanks

If you are changing the 906 style flashers in the chamber with leds you have to do all 4 o them or the voltage load difference will only cause a few to light, also if your flashers are polarized and not ac type try turning the non working ones around these flashers are all run in series on a 48v coil circuit. Sometimes on these coil voltage flasher circuit you will need a inline resistor to keep the leds from getting overloaded. you need to use 12-15v leds for these flashers.

Also check the sockets to make sure its making contact with the bulb wires, the GI lights should drop right in and work with 555 leds unless the terminals are dodgy

#257 5 years ago

thanks guys I thought it was due to some sort of voltage deficiency.

#258 5 years ago

Perhaps a little bit off topic, but perhaps food for thought for other Embryon owners...

Celebrating the completion of our Paragon "pin 2k minus 20" project. We now have a working kit for a Paragon coffee table resurrected and now playable in our Embryon machine.

Here is the cross thread.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tech-paragon-swap-into-embryon#post-1878669

1 week later
#259 5 years ago

Has anyone ever solved flipper chatter on their Embryon upper right flipper?

It just started last night...

-mof

#260 5 years ago

It needs to be rebuilt with new parts

#261 5 years ago
Quoted from Hellfire:

It needs to be rebuilt with new parts

I molexed the connection to the upper flipper, de-soldered all the wiring, and re-wired and soldered it. I also cleaned out all the parts.

No difference.

I'm still left wondering:

1. Can a poor connection issue somewhere else cause the chatter? (I'm not yet clear how the wiring works on Embryon)
2. If not, does this mean I have to replace the solenoid next?

thanks,
-mof

#262 5 years ago

Try respacing the EOS switch if spaced wrong they act like a machine gun almost and or magnetized plunger.

#263 5 years ago
Quoted from mof:

I molexed the connection to the upper flipper, de-soldered all the wiring, and re-wired and soldered it. I also cleaned out all the parts.
No difference.
I'm still left wondering:
1. Can a poor connection issue somewhere else cause the chatter? (I'm not yet clear how the wiring works on Embryon)
2. If not, does this mean I have to replace the solenoid next?
thanks,
-mof

The geometry of the flipper when extended is such that the coil has less leverage to keep the flipper in position. It is different that the older style linkage with a link between the plunger and the flipper bat. You do not have many choices for fixing it. The EOS is the key thing. When the ball hits the flipper when up if pushes the flipper down a bit. If the EOS closes briefly, the flipper re-fires until the EOS opens again. Setting the EOS to be open more when the flipper is fully up will help.

#264 5 years ago

Coil could have a broken low power winding. If it is "machine gunning", then typically that's what it is. Normally they break right where the low power winding wire attaches to it's lug & you can just carefully unwrap it one turn, sand off the insulating varnish on the end, & re-solder to the lug.
If the low power winding is broken the coil will behave as it should thru the high power windings -- but when the EOS switch opens & power is sent to the low power side of course it just falls back & closes the EOS switch, thus endlessly cycling the flipper coil.

#265 5 years ago

Everyone, Brian at HSA has completed my PF. I invite everyone to please help me look over the before and after pictures. Just spent 20 minutes going through them and so far I cannot find any major inaccuracies of the artwork. So far I am VERY IMPRESSED!!!!!!

http://www.hsapinball.com/HSA_PINBALL/hsa92214embryon.html

#266 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinwiz1985:

Everyone, Brian at HSA has completed my PF. I invite everyone to please help me look over the before and after pictures. Just spent 20 minutes going through them and so far I cannot find any major inaccuracies of the artwork. So far I am VERY IMPRESSED!!!!!!
http://www.hsapinball.com/HSA_PINBALL/hsa92214embryon.html

Very nice results. Especially since they say they are not using any overlays, I guess they just recreate the missing artwork.

#267 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinwiz1985:

Everyone, Brian at HSA has completed my PF. I invite everyone to please help me look over the before and after pictures. Just spent 20 minutes going through them and so far I cannot find any major inaccuracies of the artwork. So far I am VERY IMPRESSED!!!!!!
http://www.hsapinball.com/HSA_PINBALL/hsa92214embryon.html

What was the cost on this job?

#268 5 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

What was the cost on this job?

I'd prefer not to share publically, but considering the damage, the work needed to repair, and the results I think the cost was fair. Its honestly not an easy PF to restore because of the detail.

#269 5 years ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

Very nice results. Especially since they say they are not using any overlays, I guess they just recreate the missing artwork.

That is correct, graphic artists literally hand paint the missing artwork. My biggest fear was where the missing artwork down the bare wood was that when the artist recreated from scratch, be it another PF without that area worn, or from memory, the risk was that the artist may not exactly get it right. This is why I need a few sets of eyes on the photos. To me its a night and day difference.

I'm taking my time looking them over, so far so good!

#270 5 years ago

Looked it over a bit, the top right saucer, is painted in white instead o wood, the outlines around the inserts are way too thick in the bonus circle and around some other inserts, the bottom of IN letters in on top o the lower middle 1K bonus area. a few other things but very big improvement considering the condition of the playfield you sent them.
Yeah this game realy needs to be all painted by hand to ix the art along with other ballys of this era

#271 5 years ago
Quoted from Hellfire:

Looked it over a bit, the top right saucer, is painted in white instead o wood, the outlines around the inserts are way too thick in the bonus circle and around some other inserts, the bottom of IN letters in on top o the lower middle 1K bonus area. a few other things but very big improvement considering the condition of the playfield you sent them.
Yeah this game realy needs to be all painted by hand to ix the art along with other ballys of this era

I noticed those same things. But, I kind of like the painted saucer, it may have been necessary to cover up repair to missing wood.

Thicker key lines probably help mask a similar problem where inserts have chewed up edges in the plastic and in the wood. It seems like a good compromise. Look at the rotating section at the top right of the playfield. The Spots Letter between the Extra Ball and Collect Bonus had a massively misaligned keylining in the first place. To cover it I would a little to the outside diameter and also thicken it to the inside. The one on the opposite side of Extra Ball has a much bigger chew into the wood so the OD of the circle is now even bigger which looks weird if the other one does not match it. So they all grow. For this kind of repair it would save an immense amount of artwork touch up versus using stenciled circles and spraying black paint down.

#272 5 years ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

Very nice results. Especially since they say they are not using any overlays, I guess they just recreate the missing artwork.

Does anyone know if there are any small overlays available with the art work on them for the usual worn area's like the top where the ball enters the playfield ? If so where should I look. I just got this game and put 7 digit display's in it.

#273 5 years ago
Quoted from ghostbc:

Does anyone know if there are any small overlays available with the art work on them for the usual worn area's like the top where the ball enters the playfield ? If so where should I look. I just got this game and put 7 digit display's in it.

Yeah, it really should have had 7-digit displays from the factory. Debating if I want to do that to mine or not.

#274 5 years ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

Thicker key lines probably help mask a similar problem where inserts have chewed up edges in the plastic and in the wood. It seems like a good compromise. Look at the rotating section at the top right of the playfield. The Spots Letter between the Extra Ball and Collect Bonus had a massively misaligned keylining in the first place. To cover it I would a little to the outside diameter and also thicken it to the inside. The one on the opposite side of Extra Ball has a much bigger chew into the wood so the OD of the circle is now even bigger which looks weird if the other one does not match it. So they all grow. For this kind of repair it would save an immense amount of artwork touch up versus using stenciled circles and spraying black paint down.

yeah embryon is notorious for registration misalignment on the inserts but just painting overly thick circles around the inserts isnt very professional or look that good the registration can be corrected easy enough during a PF restoration by correcting the art around the insert esp on this machine. all the inserts should have been removed and reglued to begin with before any touchups were even done, the circles around the inserts arent even round you can see the blotchy brushed boarders etc.

#275 5 years ago

I looked at my Embryon tonight and the key lines are quite thick compared to my other older Bally's, but not as thick as the ones shown here.

#276 5 years ago
Quoted from Hellfire:

yeah embryon is notorious for registration misalignment on the inserts but just painting overly thick circles around the inserts isnt very professional or look that good the registration can be corrected easy enough during a PF restoration by correcting the art around the insert esp on this machine. all the inserts should have been removed and reglued to begin with before any touchups were even done, the circles around the inserts arent even round you can see the blotchy brushed boarders etc.

I agree, the alignment issue was a pre-existing flaw in the artwork. I dont mind the thicker lines around the inserts. Brian told me that all the inserts were removed, repainted, and re-glued back in. I just paid for the PF, I should have it in a few days back here in CT.

Now the next step in the restoration after I reassemble the damn thing is to repaint/touch up the cabinet. I still need some miscellaneous stuff, a new flipper frame since one of the screw holes is stripped, and of course all new pinballs. Dont want the old corroded ones marking up this restore job!

Despite the PF condition before the restore I've seen MUCH worse Embryon PF's out there. If I did not get the restoration done I'm positive I could have sold the machine for about $1500-1600 no problem. My parents had a HUO Embryon back in 1996 and sold in 2003. That machine was flawless to say the least from an artwork perspective. It was never in a bar or arcade, family relative bought it new back in '81.

I have no intention of selling this game. From the history I mentioned above as you might imagine being a young kid circa 1996 having a pinball machine leaves its mark as part of my childhood. Now that I have one in my adult life thats just as nice I think is what its all about.

Now if I can be lucky enough to be in a position to find a 1960 Seeburg AQ-160 Jukebox fully restored...that would complete the collection nicely. Same story, folks had one when I was a kid, grew up on the 40-70's music at a young age. All about preserving those good memories!

seeburg t160.jpg

#277 5 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

Coil could have a broken low power winding. If it is "machine gunning", then typically that's what it is. Normally they break right where the low power winding wire attaches to it's lug & you can just carefully unwrap it one turn, sand off the insulating varnish on the end, & re-solder to the lug.
If the low power winding is broken the coil will behave as it should thru the high power windings -- but when the EOS switch opens & power is sent to the low power side of course it just falls back & closes the EOS switch, thus endlessly cycling the flipper coil.

It was the coil. Replaced it, and Embryon is good for another 100 solid games before our next adventure!
-mof

#278 5 years ago

Just recently joined the club! This one has been in storage for a few years, but is in good cosmetic condition.

First question, what size posts should be on the spinner and one-way gate to the right of the #2 rollover at the top? mine have a short one and long one on each, making them look unlevel.

gabe

#279 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinwiz1985:

» YouTube video
Spending 1.5hrs looking over this PF WOW, I am impressed!!!
So I wont be immediately start reassembling the PF just yet as I have a few other priority projects going on.
Since its fully apart still I DO have an 8.5 by 11 inch flatbed scanner that I could use to create high pixel density picture files for the people who want to create waterslide decals. I figure i wont be getting around to the reassembly for at least another week. So now would be the time to put your request in or forever hold your peace.
I can confidently say now that I've laid my own eyes on the PF and not just pictures, I'm thorughly satisfied with the restoration job!!

1 month later
#281 5 years ago

Would any fellow owner be willing to make me a good photocopy of the original schematics? I have an OK manual reprint from an online source, but the schematics are incomplete.

Preferably in the original 11 x 17 format for easier reading.

#282 5 years ago
Quoted from EEE:

Would any fellow owner be willing to make me a good photocopy of the original schematics? I have an OK manual reprint from an online source, but the schematics are incomplete.
Preferably in the original 11 x 17 format for easier reading.

The ipdb.org version in colour is there and looks to be full size. Have you looked at that one?

#283 5 years ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

The ipdb.org version in colour is there and looks to be full size. Have you looked at that one?

No I had not. I found it on some other crappy site. Thanks!

1 week later
#284 5 years ago

I found my home in this club!

Some before & afters

image.jpg image-880.jpg image-272.jpg image-708.jpg image-895.jpg image-269.jpg
#285 5 years ago

That was nasty

#286 5 years ago

I love the pic where the rat decided he needed to sleep with the ball.

#287 5 years ago

I have seen some nice looking Embryon's with LEDs. Does anyone make a kit for this game?

#288 5 years ago

bump.... thanks for Embryon LED ideas...

#289 5 years ago

I am in, just picked up this one, I am thinking on sending out my playfield for a restore, not sure yet.
It plays but it's dirty. Previous owner had it over 15 years, don't think he ever cleaned it!
1.jpgP4290113.jpgP4300120-623.jpgP4300121-710.jpgP4300129.jpgP4300130-822.jpg

#290 5 years ago
Quoted from 80spit:

I am in, just picked up this one

welcome to the club!

#291 5 years ago

Mine is all reassembled, working 100%, and PF is fully restored!!!

All thats left to do now is repaint/repair the cabinet. Ordering the stencils tomorrow!

HSA restored Embryon PF.

#292 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinwiz1985:

Mine is all reassembled, working 100%, and PF is fully restored!!!

absolutely beautiful!

What did you do about the small nails that hold the ball guides to the wooden rails? I think they are called escutcheon nails. My game is missing a bunch, and the previous owner did a real hack job by taking a long nail and bending it over. I bought some, but the head is way too small.

#293 5 years ago
Quoted from gabegabegabe:

absolutely beautiful!
What did you do about the small nails that hold the ball guides to the wooden rails? I think they are called escutcheon nails. My game is missing a bunch, and the previous owner did a real hack job by taking a long nail and bending it over. I bought some, but the head is way too small.

I never took them off. I carefully pried up the wooden rails from their long staples, and left the guides in place. When I reattached them I used the same size staples and reattached.

What you are looking at is about 15 man hours to dissasemble and reassemble the PF down to bare wood and back. Did this over a period of two months between the day job. Some say im a speed demon, when in fact I was super OCD about every part

#294 5 years ago
Quoted from scampcamp:

bump.... thanks for Embryon LED ideas...

I will probably sometime in the future make this modification. I think I will just do the CPU lights and leave the GI incandescent. One thing with LEDs is that you need to swap out the lamp driver boards for the Altek ones. The stock lamp driver boards at least the transistors employed on them require a certain amount of resistance to turn on fully. You could solder a 500 ohm resistor on each of the LED light sockets so the stock board will work but I would rather have the advantage of less amperage draw on the power supply with the correct Altek board.

Once I am done repainting repairing my cabinet I will tackle this. I will make a list of how many colored LEDs are needed. Of course if anyone else has already done this please feel free to share it will save all of us planning to do this upgrade much time

#295 5 years ago

Bally Embryon Playfield Restoration & Reassembly:

#296 5 years ago

After seeing Pinwiz's playfield come back from HSA, I emailed Brian and he's going to do mine, spent all of black Friday tearing mine down. I am honestly feeling a bit overwhelmed, what a pile of stuff to tear down, I labeled everything and took about 150 pictures of it. Hope it all goes together again!! I am
really looking forward to seeing this pin come back to it's original beauty. here's some pics
Monday it's off to HSA

P5040094.jpgP5040095.jpgP5040097.jpgP5040098.jpgP5050131.jpgP5050132.jpg

#297 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinwiz1985:

Bally Embryon Playfield Restoration & Reassembly: » YouTube video

Nice video.

#298 5 years ago
Quoted from 80spit:

P5040095.jpg 127 KB

P5040097.jpg 182 KB

P5050132.jpg 61 KB

P5050131.jpg 123 KB

P5040098.jpg 135 KB

P5040094.jpg 202 KB

You did a lot of work! You unsoldered all of the CPU lights underneath. I did not do that. I was too scared that I would not resolder the wires correctly.

Best of luck!

#299 5 years ago

So the other day I was playing my Embryon and the left pop started just going crazy...even when the ball wasn't hitting the skirt. I ended up shutting the game off and turning it back on to get it to stop. I figured the switch was adjusted too close so I adjusted it and when I tested it, the pop won't even fire now when I hit the switch. I tested the solenoids in test mode and the pop fires then, so I'm trying to figure out what might cause this. Any ideas?

#300 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinwiz1985:

You did a lot of work! You unsoldered all of the CPU lights underneath. I did not do that. I was too scared that I would not resolder the wires correctly.
Best of luck!

I numbered every light and numbered the playfield, Then I found out HSA like to sand and paint the bottom, so I took a load of pics of my numbered playfield, I should be ok. It amazed me how many bad breaks there were in my stapled strand of wire, and jumpers that were installed to fix them.
I can't seem to find any of the old bally lamp sockets, I will need a few new ones. probably just use the newer style. Whats the deal with LED's, Alltek lamp driver board, guess I am going to be in on that too.
Next is rebuilding the flippers, my pawls are shot wish I could just find the nylon part that's all that really wears.

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