Indeed, Happy Birthday Rolf!

I think this confirms what we've suspected, that you're getting an extra pulse through the Score Motor 4A and 4C switch path.

Are you sure?
Jumping Jack Score Motor 2C switch (resized).jpg
No part of the blue-red wire should be wired to any part of the Score Motor 2C switch. Are you saying that they are?

Hi Bill, MarkG, +
(another post to come to posts -48 to -52) I am - maybe You too - I am under pressure to make some progress. A long time ago You wrote: "Sneaking-in a stripe of paper inbetween the Switchblades of the Switch-motor-4A makes the pin to step correct (in a Two-Player-Game) from Player-1-Ball-1 to Player-2-Ball-1. I was fearing "troubles on the last ball" when keeping this switch always open - but well, lets try and look if You have troubles on the last ball: Make*** this switch stay open all the time - then start and play an Two-Player-Game through the balls --- does the stepping always work ? - when You come to Player-1-Ball-5***: Does the Bonus-Multiplier comes on ? - when You come to Player-2-Ball-5*** and You play and then loose the ball: Does the pin changes to "Game-Over" ? - Does the Number-Match-Light in the Backbox comes on ?
Player-1,2-Ball-5***: When You have the pin set to three balls per game: Read "Ball-3".

Make*** this switch: 99% of "adjusting a switch" is to bend a bit on the so-called "Stationary Blade" - 1% is to bend the so-called "Moved Blade". When in the case of "the turning motor actuates Switch-motor-4A": The "Moved Blades" are the longer ones - having mounted an Nylon Spacer - so bend away a bit the other blade - the Stationary blade - bend, then try - bend, then try ... until the stepping from Player-1 to Player-2 works. You may have bent good and the switch works correct - maybe You have bent too muchmade it "always open" - we will see. Greetings Rolf

P.S.: The schematics tells me that there are TWO switches mounted in the stack "motor-4A" - one has wires RED-WH and OR+BL is Orange-mingled-with-Black. The other switch in the stack has wires WH-OR and unknown (schematics) color. Adjust this "other switch".

Hi Bill
I tried to follow Your descriptions (post-49, post-51) - I am confused. I am german speaking so often I just struggle with the english language. To show my problems I take these sentences from post-51: "The BL+RED leaf is solder to 2C middle sw. next to it and the other leaf has a GR jumper on the other leaf which is connect to M4A outer sw. which has the same pulse which is the WH-OR wire." My problems:
- leaf means "wire" ?
- 2C middle sw. makes me to look up in the schematics - O.K., on position motor-2C there are three switches - I look all over the schematics to find these three switches (see the first JPG, "green")
- next to it - well, 2c middle sw. next to what ?
- and the other leaf has a GR jumper on the other leaf - well, other leaf, other leaf ? Hmm, GR Jumper which is connect to M4A outer sw. - this "M4A outer sw." makes me to look up in the schematics - O.K., on position motor-4A there are two switches - I look all over the schematics to find these two switches (see the first JPG, "orange") - O.K. I see a connection from motor-2C (first JPG, brown lines) to motor-4A - but these switches are not of interest - have nothing to do with the "fault in stepping"
- which has the same pulse which is the WH-OR wire - well, Yes - when two switches are mounted on the very same motor-position then they are actuated synchronuous - or what do You mean with the " which has the same pulse which is the WH-OR wire" ?

Another thing - in post-49 You wrote an observation: "Put testlight on the PB WH-GR Leaf and ground on the reset bank and lit up when on the 1st player" --- hmm, see the second JPG - it is "Two-Player-Game when the first Player plays Ball-1. I marked "red lines" everything that has power, current "ready to flow", this is wanted. When "Switch P2A" is faulty, faulty all three blades have contact: My "marked pink wiring" ALSO, faulty is "has power, current 'ready to flow' " - this of course is not wanted, this does match with Your observation "lit up when on the 1st player.
Please have a good look on this Switch on the Player-Unit (P2A).
Then do the adjusting (see post-53) of Switch-motor-4A - in the second JPG here marked with a big black star. Greetings Rolf

0Jumping-Jack-Work-23 (resized).jpg

0Jumping-Jack-Work-24 (resized).jpg

Hi Bill
the Motor Switch Chart - look here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pin-up-score-motor-switch-position-sheet#post-2599599 - the same as You show in post-12, maybe a bit better for "print out".

To Your post-55
- we must be very precise talking the right / true color of wires, switch positions etc.
- "leaf" - good - a simple abbreviation of "solderpoint of a switchblade where wire of color XY is soldered-on"
- middle switch 4C, outer switch 4C, jumpers etc. --- we must live with the fact "the schematics are drawn abstract / neat looking - the reality in the pin is wired other" - the only thing we can say "I see a (maybe long) connecting wire / line in the schematics, NO SWITCHES in this wiring --- then in reality in the pin THERE is (maybe just a short jumper) a direct connection".
- middle switch 4C --- very interesting the text in the motor sequence chart (post-12): "LB" Relay Control --- the reason this strange looking wiring (through 4C, 4A) is in the pin: NOT for stepping - but for "LB-Relay". When blocking this switch 4C we probably run (in a One-Player-Game ? - in a Two-Player-Game ?) into problem "On last ball actuating the LB-Relay does not work" ...
On behalf of "temporary cut / block this wiring": It does not matter if You block 4C or block 4A --- In terms of troubleshooting I would like You to inspect 4A - truely open when not actuating ?
- the match unit is working --- fine.
- orange mingled with BLK --- what colors of wires do You have on the INSIDE-Switch on stack "motor-4A" - the schematics says "RED-WH", "OR+BL" --- grumble, a fault I often do: I mix up "BLK is Black" and "BL is Blue" --- O.K., I meant Orange-mingled-with-BLUE (((and I read the first sentence in this post, again and again and again))).
- Meaning M4C has the same pulse as M4A WH-OR --- IF, if, if You have the fault in Your pin - the fault I believe You have in Your pin - the fault 'at location motor-4A' You do not have a switch (open, sometimes closed) - You faulty have an closed switch (acts as a simple connecting wire) --- IF, if, if You have this fault: Then You detect "same pulse" but actually it is just the closing of M4C You detect on different places. See the JPG in post-44, upper right corner: 4A must close before 4C closes - 4A must open just after 4C has closed - only for a very, very short time both are closed (in a functioning pin).
- how about f, g, h. --- f: when the PU is in position "Player-1 is playing": P1C must be open so current can not flow - You detect current flowing so P1C is faulty closed. --- g: Hmm, Your observation is good, wanted as P1C must be open when it is Player-1 turn, P1C must be closed all other positions of the PU. Question: How can You have the "f" and the "g" at the same time ?
--- h: I also believe this is right --- the closing of motor-2C let current flow towards motor-1A /PU --- current also flows through closed motor-1C (it is player-2 playing) and further through P2A reaching its side WH-GR. Yes, I believe this is right.
Unfortunately the "h" does not tell if the three-bladed-switch-P2A has faulty all the three blades connected ...

From post-55, at the end "You show Test-Light on P switch gave results 1 pulse on step 5 --- again: motor-4A must open so the "long in time closing of motor-4C" can not fall together with fifth closing of motor-1A --- look if the motor-4A is faulty always closed.

I repeat --- look at the three blades on P2A, look at P1C - then do my suggestion "post-53, motor-4A". Greetings Rolf

On a two player game of this era the trough switch is past the outhole. The ball is kicked at the end of the motor rev by a switch on 4c. when the ball passes the trough switch it pulls P which pulls O by a switch on P which turns the motor. The player unit is stepped up 1 time thru 4c and a 1a pulse. If two player relay is not tripped (one player game) (PB is on relay bank) the circuit is opened thru the cam switches on cam P1 and P2 to open a circuit to pulse the unit three more times thru 1a till the cams close the circuit and motor stops its 120 degree revolution. The switches on P1 and P2 are the circuits for the Three pulses to take the unit to the next ball. The PB switch open (relay tripped) is what stops the three pulses and lets the unit stop on player 2.

If it does not stop on player 2 when two player is chosen make sure PB relay is tripping. Always reseat the jones plug between head and bottom board and look for broken connections. Make sure all switches on PB are opening and the wire connections look good (not smashed together)Check the switches on P1 and P2. It is the second state of the process that you are getting fault. The motor is turning, pulse 1 from 1a is thru motor switch 2c. now 2c circuit is closed at about 55 degrees of rev. when unit advances it closes P1c and switches P2a to a circuit thru a closed PB switch. You get another pulse thru 1a to advance unit again. Now a circuit is opened thru a closed P1 and another path thru P2 that is direct which allows for the final 2 pulses from 1a. After the forth pulse the P1 and P2 switches are back to there starting state and the motor revolution comes to a end.

The game pulses 4 times in a one player game to get to a next ball. The 1a is pulsing as the motor turns (held on by O) . The first pulse is thru the score motor. As unit advances the switches on the cams change state and give another curcuit to move to player 2 position. If the second player switch is not tripped it advances the unit again. The cam switches change again and give a path for 2 more pulses which puts the unit back at the next ball position. The pulses stop because unit could only be pulsed by the score motor which has dropped out by this time

you should get either 1 pulse or 4

If the make break on P2a was in the incorrect position you could get the extra 2 pulses. Both switchstack switches behind player unit must be correct

There is a diagram in this thread of the separate circuits posted by markg. it is the state of the switches in the switchstack. the 3rd path is responsible for 2 pulses from 1a. it gets you back to the next ball player 1 state.

make break is the switch connecting 1 side, disconnecting other when the cam moves it. the schematic is the state of the machine that has been started in a 1 player game, ball 1 served into shooter lane and unplugged from power. no points have been scored or balls played.

look at markg graph and make your switches mirror his positions. put your player unit in a ball 1 position (look at rivets on front)then adjust the switches. pulse the unit by hand 1 time and make sure yours are mirrored. continue till you get to next ball 1 position.

Hi frb
welcome to the topic. I believe that Bill has an "always (faulty) closed switch motor-4A acting like an connecting wire (instead of acting as a switch)" --- maybe the leafs / contact-points - maybe where the wires are soldered-on at the switch - maybe a bent lug making contact - maybe a drop of solder - maybe a doghair crap of wire. Here http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#fuses - the third picture shows a heavy bent solder-lug on a lamp. Greetings Rolf

Hi Bill
to Your post-70
- hmm, the motor was taken apart
- solder is between the tabs of M4C outer sw. and inner sw. --- actually a thin blank wire should be there - soldered on - see the bottom right corner of the JPG: Schematics are drawn abstract, made beautyful --- the reality in the pin might be other - but for sure: a connection in the schematics is an connection in the pin. So M4C and M4C most likely are O.K.
- A points (?) --- see top of the JPG: M1A and M4A both have five closings --- but ith an offset. To check this: I drew another Test-Light mounted on "other switch on position M4A".
- motor is not turning at normally speed --- hmm, slower or faster ? - "slower" should not mke problems in stepping the PU. Greetings Rolf

0Jumping-Jack-Work-25 (resized).jpg

You are getting the one pulse that is moving the unit to player 2 position. the cams on player unit now change position and should block the next pulse because the 2nd player relay should be tripped which closed a switch on it that closed a switch to stop the next pulse to move player unit any further. The motor should only turn one revolution (1/3) turn. you should only get one pulse thru the motor switch. is your motor making an extra 1/3 rev.

What motor was taken apart? I have a different perspective to add here.

I know this was touched on earlier, but since you mentioned the motor rebuild, I think it would be good to take another look at the switch dog positions. You posted this in #12. Is it from your jumping jack machine? If so, it possibly contradicts the positions referenced in post #35. 3c and 4a do not have a position designated in this pic but in post #35 they do. Want to be sure the pic in post #35 is accurate.

image (resized).jpeg

The picture of the card I posted is just a cropped copy of the card you posted in #12. I had a problem similar to yours on a Centigrade 37 a few years ago. After a specific event, the game would fire coils or pulse too many times. After a lot of switch cleaning and adjusting and circuit troubleshooting, the only problem was the switch dog in the wrong position on one stack around the score motor. I bought the machine in that condition. When you said your motor had been rebuilt, it reminded me of this. If you have checked all switch dogs and they are in proper positions, then I’m going to move back to the gallery and just follow along. I’ll chime in if I have other ideas.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/c-37-ball-count-is-weird-and-top-hole-scores-too-much

did you confirm the motor is only moving 1/3 rev and not 2/3

Hi Bill
I did not / do not want to annoy You - this is my last post in Your topic. See the JPG - after You manipulate the motor-4C to be always closed - If the motor-4C-4A-Test-Light is constantly lit: This then would be / is the proof of "faulty always closed motor-4A". Greetings Rolf

0Jumping-Jack-Work-26 (resized).jpg

Congrats northstar. Go enjoy your newly working game!!