Since it counted your bonus the ball registered the outhole. So it sounds like a contact to control the game over relay. A quick check would be to lift the pf and finger the game over relay. Once that locks over try starting a new game. GL

By your description it seems that the Pins was in really bad shape. I know its a pain in the rear and will take a while but you should really go through every leaf switch with a file and clean the contacts...as well as the bonus, match point, etc contacts. Just some food for though. Let me know what you find.

Yes, those contacts will build up carbons from firing...and then when it sits for a while that will turn into corrosion and stop the switches from making a connection. I have also seen two contacts corroded together and not separating during game play, and I had an Abra Ca Dabra that had been sitting so long that some of the switches were bent away from "home" so when the wheel turned nothing happened.
Yes, MOST contact cleaners are highly flammable...not a good idea where sparks happen often.

Do you have a Schematic? Unfortunately there is not one on IMDB, can you tell me where I can get one from ? Makes it easy for me to help you.

The Lock relay on a lot of Bally Ems does two things, but the newer machine they only do one thing.

The lock RE. is on all the time so that is why it looks discoloured and always warm. The Lock RE on most machines turns on the GI lights and On ALL machines de-energises the Game over Trip RE. See schematic.

The game not resetting as in the OP post. First you said the Game over light did not come on. Check the bulb is OK. The game over light comes on when the Game over RE changes. Check the two coils on the Game over RE (should be around 50ohms) and check all the switches change state when you latch and release the RE.

Let us know the results and we will go from there.

LockRelay.jpg

I read an earlier post from you and now have the same Schematic as you do.

Can you read a schematic? If not by the time I’m finished with you, you will!!

Chris,
where did you pull the schematic from?

--Jeff

No, and if your problem "is not consistent" I really think you have a contact problem. A leaf switch somewhere is close enough to make contact at times but not close enough to be consistent.

Yes, the whole thing is the Relay, and Yes RE. = Relay, this is also used on the schematic.

Yes, check them in the machine, but power off. You may get an odd ready is a switch is stuck closed. But generally you can check while in the machine.

Sorry, if we are telling you “how to suck eggs”, but first we need to know what your experience is so we can talk at the same level. This will come clear over the next few posts.

My , and Jeff’s(Way2Wryd) approach to fault finding is.
1 Do the simple things first.
2 Start at a point and work one step at a time in “Game Flow” order.
3 Check mechanical thing first. Relays are moving correctly, Stepper unites step ETC.
4 Check the electrical bits last.
5 Take photo’s so we can see too. (200kb is good enough, got to conserve Pinside disk space!!)

One thing I like to be sure of is that you understand that your schematic is drawn at a specific point in time. That point in time is, when all stepper units are at zero position, ball in the shooter lane and power off.

Just to make life hard, intermittent problems are the hardiest to fault find, but we’ll get there.

I normally use a bit of 240 grade emery tape. A disposable nail file is good too. Just clean and remove dags, no more unless they are real bad.

Me too!!

Chris is spot on with the troubleshooting.

You can Get some flex stone files that work really well from the online sites.

I normally start at turn teh game on and start a game,
If you can get that working most everything will follow.

Photos are key.

Also as Chris has said in other threads, ONE problem at a time
Im particularly bad at this and try to thread multiple problems at once however i always go back to one at a time. Its the easiest.

You may find fixing one thing shows another 2 things wrong. No worries just take it step by step and in the end you will have a machine you wont have to adjust for quite awhile

--Jeff

Mojo. This is actually a great place to start. Let's start troubleshooting from here.

First let's start with start button does nothing.

Do you get gi lights when turning the game on / pressing the flipper button.

Does the credit wheel decrement if you have credits on it

Let me look at the schematic and see what shouldhappen next.

I think some of that startup sequence applies but not all of it. Especially if you are already getting GI

At what point do you get GI. WHen you turn the Game on or do you have to hit a flipper

2 more questions

1. Does the Game over light show in the backbox and have you looked at and cleaned the Game over Relay as the above post states, Bally game over relays are notoriously cranky

2. WHen you say that the game is on freeplay could you explain how it is set to freeplay. (im trying to see if it is hacked or set so that the normal startup sequence applies)

--Jeff

Did this with my wife last night (Saturday), just getting over it now (4pm Sunday)
Boy you two have been busy looking forward to the read.

The location of MY gameover RE is bottom left side in the cabinet, so most likely will be yours, See Pic below.

From your posts, not sure that this is where your problem is but it is a good place to start.

Make sure that you can manually latch and release this RE. With the power off, press the Latch coil, it should stay when you take your finger off and then press the release coil, the Latch coil should return. Check that all the open (NO) switches close and the closed (NC) switches open when you operate this RE.

Warning, I have indicted the LINE VOLTAGE on the pic below. I would suggest you put a bit of insulation over these bits to prevent accidents, as I have in the picture.

GameOver_RE.jpg

Also, best we forget about the coin door parts for now, get the machine going first.
Now the credit unit, can you get it off 25 games, set it to 10 games, something other than 0 or 25. There is a switch at 25 games (max credits), don’t need that to complicate thing just yet. To reduce the number of credits, press the top coil on the credit unit, it should reduce the credits by one each time.

Now, that you have checked the Game Over RE and you think it is OK, and you have something like 10 credits available.

Turn the machine off and then back on.

The machine should have GI lights on and be at game over; the game over Lamp on the Back box should be lit.

It should not matter when you turn the machine off it should be at Game over when you turn it back on.

Report back what happens. This is the very start of any game. Next is the credit button, which Jeff is looking at.

ok now were getting further!
Tell me if this is now true.

So game over relay seems to latch and unlatch correctly and game over light can be seen in backglass.

The start button now does something! (what did you adjust? just the credit reel?)

SO now i can count 2 problems that we need to address
1. Credit reel is jacked (technical term) and needs to be fixed.
2. Game resets score but does not kick out ball. (i assume the score motor is spinning at this point)

so i would keep down the path of #2 and rebuild your credit reel / set on freeplay when we get the game working.

For the game to kick out the ball all the score reels must be on 0 , advance unit , ball count and player count needs to be on 0 position.

so in your backglass, when you press the start button do you see player 1, ball 1, on the playfield do you see all bonus lights not lit?

if you do not see these things lets look at the unit that controlls them and make sure they are reset to 0 position.

Ok so lets make Fixing the Credit unit the issue at hand. there are additional things you should look at in addition to soldering the coil

lets see if i can explain clearly.

On all these units including the credit unit, there is a switch. on the rotor gear there normally is a bar.

when the unit is at 0 position the bar will either open or close the switch indicating that the unit is at 0 position

look at this guide to stepper units. It includes a few Bally examples and is where i cut my teeth
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps

notice that the spring is straight unlike the one on your credit unit.

post pics

Thanks Jeff, not sure how to do this exactly

Maybe we need to explain Zero position. Most stepper units, but not all, step in one direction and reset in the other. Watch this You Tube and you will be wise to stepper units.

Most stepper units have a Zero position.I think the 10-90 stepper unit is an exception.

The score reel will step in one direction until the zero switch opens.

The ball count unit, player up unit and the coin unit will step in one direction, and reset in one action,ball 1, 2 ETC position 5 is game over, position zero is ball 1 (some schematic don’t use position zero, for these unit, In this case positions 1 to 6 instead of 0 to 5, same thing). Zero is when the bar on the drive gear changes the switches on the front of this unit; this is when the unit resets.

The Score motor has a zero position. If you look at the cam closes to the motor (cam 1), it has two notches, 180 degrees apart. When the cam follower is in the notch the unit is at zero position. Yes the Scr Motor has two Zero positions. Scr motors work in 180 degrees segments.

Lesson two – Schematic reading – Score Motor switching.

ADDED - As a general rule the score motor only turns 180 degrees, with the exception of starting a new game and when you score more than 5000 bonus points. In this case it should turn 360 degrees, if it turns more than 360 degrees, you may have a problem. When you start a new game you may need 9 pulses to the score reel to get them back to zero, hence 360 degrees. Same with bonus greater than 5000.

Score motor doesn’t have a lot to do with scoring, other than collecting bonus. A better name would be a Sequencing Motor. It’s more like the CPU or Programming of EM machines.

Scr_Motor_Switching.jpg

Credit unit will step up and step down.

Is that what you mean by spin back?

Did you move the spring to the correct position?

A credit unit will step up / down .

you can see this by manually activating one plunger and then the other while the game is off

you should see the unit add a credit and then remove the credit.

if there is not enough tension from the center spring to make it step down cleanly you can try winding it another turn

im away from my machines but if i remember. one bar should hit on 0 and one should hit on 25 or so.
the switch on mine is 2 switches. 1 closed at 0 the other closed at max.

Post a pic of teh switch and i should be able to tell you

Also good that the ball count unit feels good. that is an example of a step up / reset unit.

If you look closely at that one you will see that when the unit is reset that the switch is either pushed open or closed. That is similar but different to every unit you will encounter

the angled s spring should be straight down to the hook on the metal arm below it

Take a look at those units on pinrepair and you will see the dif

That does look like 0 position. Are yours credits on 0