(Topic ID: 23475)

EM Tech: Freedom

By CookyJar

11 years ago


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  • 66 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by CookyJar
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Bally_Coin_Door_#10.pdf (PDF preview)
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#1 11 years ago

Working on a Bally EM Freedom. Bought it lighting up but not starting up, trying to troubleshoot as I'm shopping it out. I've cleaned up a couple of EM's but this seems to be the most extensive concerning non working issues.
Going through the bottom board it seems that my Freedom might be missing 3 relays (2nd coin chute, 3rd coin chute and 2 coins 3 plays). I say might, because I am unable to find bottom board pics of a standard production Freedom, IPDB has some photos but they are of early production units with the lower pop bumper. The early production photos show the relays. Also if you see my attached photo, the "missing relays" don't seem to have perforated the paper relay list, which it should have if the relays were ever mounted there.
Does anyone have a EM Freedom and can take a few picture of the bottom board, or know where I can find some pictures? Also any pictures of the 3 ball 5 ball adjustment too, since it seems as mine has been rewired (possibly for free play?). See photo below for what the rewiring looks like.

DSC03710.JPGDSC03710.JPG DSC03712.JPGDSC03712.JPG

#3 11 years ago

Yes I do have the schematic, though I am just learning how to fully read them. I know some of the basics like normally open, normally closed switches. I found an EM schematic reading guide online and learning as I go.
So far during the tear down and clean up, I've corrected two problems, a misadjusted relay switch and a misadjusted coin unit.

#6 11 years ago

Hey Chrisbee, I'll have to scan the schematic at work tomorrow since it is too large and cumbersome to scan on my little home scanner. I will post it tomorrow.

I won't be able to try starting the machine for another week or two. Right now it is apart as I clean the playfield, relays, coils, plastics, etc. The playfield is on the rotisserie, the bottom board is on my work bench, and the cabinet is waiting to be cleaned (was thinking of repainting it, but it's not in that bad of shape). I was hoping to have it back together this weekend, but it looks like Labor Day weekend BBQ's are going to be eating up all my time. I can tell you that prior to taking it apart, the machine would light up and could get the playfield working by manually pushing the relays (though it would not play through a game). I could not coin it up other than by manually pushing the credit wheel coil and the start button would still not work. During the course of cleaning I was able to fix a misadjusted relay and a misadjusted coin unit that was also gunked up. I appreciate the help, sorry if I jumped the gun and don't have everything yet in place for testing. Let me know if I should continue this thread once I have everything together or if I should start a new thread.

PS - Yeah, the wires were already pretty clean before started shopping. Makes me dread the filthy insides of my next project, a Bally Flip Flop. Oddly enough I bought the Flip Flop as a parts machine for Freedom since I was missing the chimes and a few other small items. The guy I bought it from had it real cheap, but never tried it out and was sitting in his garage for years. I put it together and low and behold it started up! So I decided to save it instead of ripping parts out of it.

#8 11 years ago

Here's the schematics.
I'm going to try sending it over to IPDB as well so others will be able to use it.

#10 11 years ago

Here are more detailed photos of the ball count.
The red white has been jumped via the big brown wire to the black green.
The other big brown wire on the middle 3 player side is connected to the white green.
Also on the middle 3 player side are two black red wires.
On the 5 player side the grey is on the middle and the green white is on the bottom.

#11 11 years ago

pic 1

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#12 11 years ago

pic 2 & 3

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#14 11 years ago

Where should the Red white wire be coming from, I don't see any available nearby for the ball count.
Heading off to sleep now, will check back tomorrow morning.
Thanks again for all the help, Jeff.

#22 11 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

I think if we look closer we will find that he red yellow wire is jumped to the brown
or maybe Cooky mispoke

You are correct, I mispoke, the red yellow wire is jumped to the brown wire then black green. Sorry about that.

I'll have pics of the spinner relay and be able to answer Chris' question once I get home this evening.

#23 11 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

CookyJar, can you confirm a few things?
1) Is there signs that a wire has been connected to pin2 of the plug?
2) If not, is there continuity between pin 3 and pin2 on the plug ?
3) Is the White/green wire in fact Wh/G? Look into the wiring loom see if it still white/green.

Hey Chris, it doesn't look like a wire has ever been connected to pin 2 of the plug, looks like no solder on it. No continuity between pin 3 and pin 2 on the plug. The White/green does appear to be white/green, though it is more off white than other white wires.

I'm going to upload more pics and some hi-res video of both the ball count and spinner relays.

#24 11 years ago

Ball count video

#25 11 years ago

Spinner relay video

#26 11 years ago

Now that I'm looking more closely at the spinner relay, there is a white/green wire. Though here it does appear more tan(light brown)/green then the wire jumped bythe ball count

#27 11 years ago

Spinner relay pics

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#28 11 years ago

Spinner relay pic

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#35 11 years ago

Chris, you are correct. I checked the schematic and it is 64, so the mystery W/g is brown/green.
Nice graphics, they will be very helpful rewiring this correctly.

The Red/Yellow 1000 pt. is cut a bit short. Should I just use the large brown wire extension to reach the #3 socket or do you recommend something else? I've never rewired before.

And yes the spinner relay does look shinny and new. I wonder why it would have been replaced, I don't see any evidence of burn on the board.

Thank you both very much again, I wouldn't have been able to get this done without you. I'll let you know when I get the machine back together if the fix to the ball count wiring along with the adjustment to the coin unit will get the machine going again. If not I'll be back with more questions.

#38 11 years ago

And hopefully they rewired the spinner relay correctly. Have a good weekend guys.

1 month later
#39 11 years ago

Hey Guys, after a month I'm finally through cleaning up the Freedom. Went through every switch and point to make sure that they were clean and in the correct open/closed position (with the exception of the score motor points). Also rewired ball adjustment according to Chris's guide.
But I'm still having the same problem I was before the shopping, I cannot get a game to startup. The game will light up, but that's it. It looks like the coin switches have been messed with (see pic below). I put credits on the credit reel manually and had the credit light on, but no luck. Also when I power up, the coin, credit, lock and reset relays lock on (see pic below, note power is off on the pic), not sure if they are supposed to lock on when powered up.
I'm hoping you guys can throw me more of that helpful advise that you're so good at. Thanks.

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#41 11 years ago

Yes, I have tried adding credits manually with no luck.

#45 11 years ago

On power up the lock relay becomes energized and stays on, the GO relay briefly becomes energized briefly as you said. The coin, credit and reset relay become energized and stay that way without anything else being pushed.
When I connect the Red/Yellow wire to either the White/Blue or White wire on the coin switch nothing happens when I press the credit/start button. However when I jump the White/Blue wire and White wire the score motor begins to run continuously until I remove the jump. The target bank continuously resets and the the player lights keep moving up till it reaches 4 player. The ball also is served into the shooter lane. Everything works on the playfield once I release the wire jump, that is until the ball hits the pops, it then goes to Game Over.
Not sure what to make of this, I've included another photo of the 2nd coin chute switch as well at the first.

DSC03852.JPGDSC03852.JPG DSC03856.JPGDSC03856.JPG

#46 11 years ago

Opps, forgot to attache the Yellow wire to the Red/Yellow and White wires. Going to try that now. What should I do with that Yellow/Black wire that is twisted to the Yellow wire?

#47 11 years ago

Nope, no luck even after a few combination of wires.
Also, just noticed what looks like a broken off base of a third lug next to lug the White/Blue wire is attached to. On my other two 70's Bally games, Old Chicago and Flip Flop they both have three lugs on the coin switch.

#48 11 years ago
Quoted from HELLODEADCITY:

hmm do they register and stay
or do they return to zero right away?

Yes, the credit register and stay when manually added on.

#50 11 years ago

Any idea on what the correct postition is? Could you send a pic of the wires on your Captain Fantastic.

#51 11 years ago

Here's a new wrinkle. Attached the Yellow wire to the third lug on the coin switch. Yellow/Black and Red/Yellow were completely disconnected. When I pushed the coin switch a game seemed to start up as normal, as if I was pressing the credit/start button. However when the ball hit a pop bumper it went to game over (sometimes 2nd or 3rd hit on the pop). After a few tries at this the Pops and slings stopped working, possibly a blown fuse. However everything else was working and I could play through a game as normal, albeit without the slings and pops.

#53 11 years ago

Hey Chris, thanks for the help again. Even though I understand some of the schematics, it's still somewhat a foreign language for me.
I'll take my multimeter and determine which tab is common, NC and NO on the coin switches.
As far as only having a 3 slot coin door, I found three 2 coin slot door schematics with my Old Chicago. They look to be general schematics for all Bally's for that era. I've attached a PDF of each. Maybe one of these will help determine the correct wiring.

#55 11 years ago

Ok jumped the Yellow wire to the White wires on the door plug. Still no credit/start button working.

#57 11 years ago

Hey Chris, I check NC 1F switch on the score motor and it was misadjusted. After adjusting it correctly the credit button starts up a game and it plays through, looks like I will just have to correct the wiring on the coin chute switches. Hooray! Should I follow your previous guide to rewiring it?

I'm still have some problems with the pops causing it to go to game over and/or blowing the fuse for the pops and slings. After testing out the playfield I've narrowed it down to the right pop that's causing the problem. When the ball hits the other pops, no problem, but as soon as it hits the right pop it goes to game over. I'm not sure though why it's causing a problem.

#58 11 years ago

Also, forgot to mention the ball adjustment works correctly thanks to your help.

#63 11 years ago

Thanks for the guidance guys. I was planning a PBR order anyway, so I'll might as well order the coil just in case I need it. Looks like it's only $7.50 on the site.

The contacts on the coil were cleaned, so that doesn't seem to be a problem. Also, the problem coil has a diode across it, with the other two problem free coils one has a diode and one doesn't. Could this be causing any of the problems?
May not get to test the coil till later on in the week. Will post back and let you know how it goes.

#65 11 years ago

Hey Steve thanks for the info. Guys like you, Chris and everyone else on Pinside have been very helpful to me as I learn the ins and outs of EM machines. You should teach classes at the local library, I know if a class on pinball repair showed up at my local library, I'd be the first one to sign up.
I will cut the diodes when I get back home tonight and see how things go. I'll post my results later.

#66 11 years ago

Hey Steve, that worked!

I checked the pop with diode that was working correctly and found that one leg on it was clipped or broke off. I then removed the diode from the problem pop and it now works correctly without going to game over or blowing a fuse.

I have a few other problems with the machine running properly. First is the two saucers, which up until the other day were working properly. Now when the ball enters either of the two saucers (which score the wheel value that is lit on the playfield) the score motor continuously runs but does not register a score or kick out the ball.

Another problem is the two outlanes are not scoring. Since the outlanes score the wheel value on the playfield, which is the same as what the saucers score I though they may be related. When the ball rolls over the outlane switch I can hear the score motor run momentarily but does not score. However when I run my finger over the switch and hold the switch closed for a moment longer then the ball does, it scores correctly. I adjusted the points on the switch to be closer thinking this may provide better contact but it does nothing.

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