(Topic ID: 23475)

EM Tech: Freedom


By CookyJar

7 years ago



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  • 66 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by CookyJar
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 66 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 7 years ago

Here's a new wrinkle. Attached the Yellow wire to the third lug on the coin switch. Yellow/Black and Red/Yellow were completely disconnected. When I pushed the coin switch a game seemed to start up as normal, as if I was pressing the credit/start button. However when the ball hit a pop bumper it went to game over (sometimes 2nd or 3rd hit on the pop). After a few tries at this the Pops and slings stopped working, possibly a blown fuse. However everything else was working and I could play through a game as normal, albeit without the slings and pops.

#52 7 years ago

My schematic is for a 3 slot coin door.

The coin switches have three tabs, one tab is common. If you connect your DMM between the common and one tab it will be NC the other NO. you will need to work out which is which.

Coin switch one (SW1) Common is yellow (50) and the NO tab is White/Blue (52) there is no wire on the NC tab.

The yellow (30) wire goes to the common on coin switch two (SW2). The Red/white (15) wire goes to the NC tab on SW2. The NO on switch two is Yellow/Black (38) .

Now coin switch three (SW3). The Red/White wire from SW2 goes to common on SW3. The NO tab is White/Red (51) and the NC tab is White (50).

You may want to check the colour numbers on you Schematic, mine is a scanned copy and a bit hard to read.

Looking at your images I still think you have a wiring issue.

#53 7 years ago

Hey Chris, thanks for the help again. Even though I understand some of the schematics, it's still somewhat a foreign language for me.
I'll take my multimeter and determine which tab is common, NC and NO on the coin switches.
As far as only having a 3 slot coin door, I found three 2 coin slot door schematics with my Old Chicago. They look to be general schematics for all Bally's for that era. I've attached a PDF of each. Maybe one of these will help determine the correct wiring.

#54 7 years ago

In all three schematic you posted and the schematic I have. The wiring is the same.
So let’s take the coins slot out of the circuit. Put a jumper wire from the yellow to the white wires on the door plug, and then we can move on.

Help.jpg

#55 7 years ago

Ok jumped the Yellow wire to the White wires on the door plug. Still no credit/start button working.

#56 7 years ago

Next check switch 1F on the SCR Motor, it should be closed, than check the switch on the reset RE it is NC, I have not got the schematic with me so you will need to find the wire colours on you schematic. After that it’s back to the credit button.

#57 7 years ago

Hey Chris, I check NC 1F switch on the score motor and it was misadjusted. After adjusting it correctly the credit button starts up a game and it plays through, looks like I will just have to correct the wiring on the coin chute switches. Hooray! Should I follow your previous guide to rewiring it?

I'm still have some problems with the pops causing it to go to game over and/or blowing the fuse for the pops and slings. After testing out the playfield I've narrowed it down to the right pop that's causing the problem. When the ball hits the other pops, no problem, but as soon as it hits the right pop it goes to game over. I'm not sure though why it's causing a problem.

#58 7 years ago

Also, forgot to mention the ball adjustment works correctly thanks to your help.

#59 7 years ago
Quoted from CookyJar:

Should I follow your previous guide to rewiring it?

Yes

#60 7 years ago
Quoted from CookyJar:

I'm still have some problems with the pops causing it to go to game over and/or blowing the fuse for the pops and slings. After testing out the playfield I've narrowed it down to the right pop that's causing the problem. When the ball hits the other pops, no problem, but as soon as it hits the right pop it goes to game over. I'm not sure though why it's causing a problem.

I can think of a couple of reasons this might happen. First, because you're blowing fuses, your coil is drawing too much current, which would mean it likely needs to be replaced. Check the resistance of the coil by removing the wire from one side and reading across the coil's two leads. Do the same reading on another pop bumper and compare results. Also, make sure the switch on the pop bumper is clean and well adjusted. I'm not sure a dirty switch would cause this kind of problem, but it won't hurt to make sure it's good.

Second, the Game Over trip can happen when any solenoid fires if there's a problem with your Lock relay.
It works like this:
1. Your Game Over relay holds energized through a switch on the Lock relay.
2. That switch gets dirty, or it's mis-adjusted and only makes light contact.
3. The pop bumper fires and pulls the voltage momentarily low across the Lock relay.
4. The momentary voltage drop weakens the pull on the Lock relay and it starts to relax.
5. The Game Over switch opens just enough to trip the Game Over relay.
6. The voltage on the Lock relay recovers and there's no evidence that it caused the tripped the Game Over relay.

#61 7 years ago
Quoted from rancegt:

Your Game Over relay holds energized through a switch on the Lock relay.

Just for accuracy for our new friend. Both the Game over RE trip coil and Lock RE coil are energized at the same time then machine is turned on. The game over RE is then mechanically held in position and the SW for this coil in the Lock RE opens and de- energizes the GO RE trip coil. The whole point of this is if the machine was switched off or loss power in the middle of a game. The machine would reset.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1976-williams-lock-coil-purpose-discussion

#62 7 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

Just for accuracy for our new friend. Both the Game over RE trip coil and Lock RE coil are energized at the same time then machine is turned on. The game over RE is then mechanically held in position and the SW for this coil in the Lock RE opens and de- energizes the GO RE trip coil. The whole point of this is if the machine was switched off or loss power in the middle of a game. The machine would reset.
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1976-williams-lock-coil-purpose-discussion

I'm very happy to yield to Chris on the details. I'm pretty good with schematics, but my hands on EM experience only covers a dozen machines or so.

#63 7 years ago

Thanks for the guidance guys. I was planning a PBR order anyway, so I'll might as well order the coil just in case I need it. Looks like it's only $7.50 on the site.

The contacts on the coil were cleaned, so that doesn't seem to be a problem. Also, the problem coil has a diode across it, with the other two problem free coils one has a diode and one doesn't. Could this be causing any of the problems?
May not get to test the coil till later on in the week. Will post back and let you know how it goes.

#64 7 years ago

Diodes do not belong on an EM machine coils and must be removed.

Diodes exist on SS games to prevent the electrical back-lash of the collapsing magnetic field when the coil is deactivated. This protects the transistors which drive the coil.

When power is applied to a coil, a magnetic field develops which pull the solenoid plunger or moves the relay armature. When the power is removed, the magnetic field collapses within the coil which creates a high voltage spike. (You know what happens when you move a magnet on a coil.. your lawnmower spark plug knows).
The reverse current caused by the collapsing field will destroy the driver transistor on a SS game, burning it out and cause the coil to be permenently switched on. This reverse induced current is arrested and stopped at the source... at the coil diode.

(Incidently, if you ever get a shock from an EM coil, it won't be from the 24 volts powering it. You'll get a jolt from the reverse current as the field collapses within it.)

Diodes conduct in one polarity and short on the opposite polarity. Since EM games use AC which is a constantly changing polarity, the diode will short in half the AC cycle and either blow a fuse, or the diode itself will break down and short out (Essentially making itself a solid wire) or become open.

Unlike a driver transistor on a SS game, the electrical backlash of a diode-less coil won't effect the switches on a relay. I consider things like this a real advantage to working on EM games.

Sometimes people order or get replacement coils which come with the isolation diode pre-installed. Sometimes previous owners leave the diode in place but cut one leg. Again, it should be removed from the coil in an EM machine.

#65 7 years ago

Hey Steve thanks for the info. Guys like you, Chris and everyone else on Pinside have been very helpful to me as I learn the ins and outs of EM machines. You should teach classes at the local library, I know if a class on pinball repair showed up at my local library, I'd be the first one to sign up.
I will cut the diodes when I get back home tonight and see how things go. I'll post my results later.

#66 7 years ago

Hey Steve, that worked!

I checked the pop with diode that was working correctly and found that one leg on it was clipped or broke off. I then removed the diode from the problem pop and it now works correctly without going to game over or blowing a fuse.

I have a few other problems with the machine running properly. First is the two saucers, which up until the other day were working properly. Now when the ball enters either of the two saucers (which score the wheel value that is lit on the playfield) the score motor continuously runs but does not register a score or kick out the ball.

Another problem is the two outlanes are not scoring. Since the outlanes score the wheel value on the playfield, which is the same as what the saucers score I though they may be related. When the ball rolls over the outlane switch I can hear the score motor run momentarily but does not score. However when I run my finger over the switch and hold the switch closed for a moment longer then the ball does, it scores correctly. I adjusted the points on the switch to be closer thinking this may provide better contact but it does nothing.

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