(Topic ID: 23475)

EM Tech: Freedom


By CookyJar

7 years ago



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  • 66 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by CookyJar
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Help.jpg
Bally_Coin_Door_#10.pdf (PDF preview)
Bally_Coin_Door_#6.pdf (PDF preview)
Bally_Coin_Door_#5.pdf (PDF preview)
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Help.jpg
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3-5ball.jpg
Presentation1.jpg
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Whitegreen.jpg
freedom_3-5_ball.jpg

There are 66 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 7 years ago

Working on a Bally EM Freedom. Bought it lighting up but not starting up, trying to troubleshoot as I'm shopping it out. I've cleaned up a couple of EM's but this seems to be the most extensive concerning non working issues.
Going through the bottom board it seems that my Freedom might be missing 3 relays (2nd coin chute, 3rd coin chute and 2 coins 3 plays). I say might, because I am unable to find bottom board pics of a standard production Freedom, IPDB has some photos but they are of early production units with the lower pop bumper. The early production photos show the relays. Also if you see my attached photo, the "missing relays" don't seem to have perforated the paper relay list, which it should have if the relays were ever mounted there.
Does anyone have a EM Freedom and can take a few picture of the bottom board, or know where I can find some pictures? Also any pictures of the 3 ball 5 ball adjustment too, since it seems as mine has been rewired (possibly for free play?). See photo below for what the rewiring looks like.

DSC03710.JPG DSC03712.JPG

#2 7 years ago

Those relays are used for additional coin door configurations and are not needed for operation

That ball count does look funky. Do you have the schematic?

#3 7 years ago

Yes I do have the schematic, though I am just learning how to fully read them. I know some of the basics like normally open, normally closed switches. I found an EM schematic reading guide online and learning as I go.
So far during the tear down and clean up, I've corrected two problems, a misadjusted relay switch and a misadjusted coin unit.

#4 7 years ago

Can you post a copy of your schematic for me and Jeff (way2wyrd)?
We can help you, but I don’t think either of us have your schematic. We do have others but, so not a total loss. Start the machine, tell us what happens, best you can!!

Start by giving the machines some credit by Rotate the Credit stepper unit. Then start the machine, let’s get the machine running and sort out the money bit (Coin Shoots and associated Relays) later.

#5 7 years ago

There is something going on with the two brown wire in your pic 3/5 ball adjustment!

PS that’s a pretty clean looking machine you have there

#6 7 years ago

Hey Chrisbee, I'll have to scan the schematic at work tomorrow since it is too large and cumbersome to scan on my little home scanner. I will post it tomorrow.

I won't be able to try starting the machine for another week or two. Right now it is apart as I clean the playfield, relays, coils, plastics, etc. The playfield is on the rotisserie, the bottom board is on my work bench, and the cabinet is waiting to be cleaned (was thinking of repainting it, but it's not in that bad of shape). I was hoping to have it back together this weekend, but it looks like Labor Day weekend BBQ's are going to be eating up all my time. I can tell you that prior to taking it apart, the machine would light up and could get the playfield working by manually pushing the relays (though it would not play through a game). I could not coin it up other than by manually pushing the credit wheel coil and the start button would still not work. During the course of cleaning I was able to fix a misadjusted relay and a misadjusted coin unit that was also gunked up. I appreciate the help, sorry if I jumped the gun and don't have everything yet in place for testing. Let me know if I should continue this thread once I have everything together or if I should start a new thread.

PS - Yeah, the wires were already pretty clean before started shopping. Makes me dread the filthy insides of my next project, a Bally Flip Flop. Oddly enough I bought the Flip Flop as a parts machine for Freedom since I was missing the chimes and a few other small items. The guy I bought it from had it real cheap, but never tried it out and was sitting in his garage for years. I put it together and low and behold it started up! So I decided to save it instead of ripping parts out of it.

#7 7 years ago

Have fun “Eating” this weekend. And it’s up to you if you want to continue this thread or start a new one.

#8 7 years ago

Here's the schematics.
I'm going to try sending it over to IPDB as well so others will be able to use it.

#9 7 years ago

ok It looks to me from the picture like the 3-5 player is permanently wired for 3 player.
That being said while it looks hacked i think it may play with 3 player rules..

There should be wires on all 3 rivets in the plug and it looks liek 2 of them are soldered on the 3 pt connector?....

Here are teh wire colors im looking for
colors.JPG

First Top Rivet
Green red on the plug. That looks like the 2 the green wires.
On the 3 player side of theconnector should be a yellow black that goes to the Ball Count Unit
In your picture that loooks like the top pin
gameOver.JPG

Bottom Rivet
Black Green on the plug. This looks soldered to the 3 player side and not the rivet?..
Red Yellow on the 3 player side(looks like that big brown wire splice)
Green white on the 5 player side(cant see that)
spinnerlights.JPG

Middle Rivet
Black Green on the plug. This looks soldered to the 3 player side and not the rivet?..
black red on the 3 player side
Grey on the 5 player side
spinnerScore.JPG

--Jeff

Post edited by way2wyrd : corrected plug placement at wire color

#10 7 years ago

Here are more detailed photos of the ball count.
The red white has been jumped via the big brown wire to the black green.
The other big brown wire on the middle 3 player side is connected to the white green.
Also on the middle 3 player side are two black red wires.
On the 5 player side the grey is on the middle and the green white is on the bottom.

#11 7 years ago

pic 1

DSC03725.JPG

#12 7 years ago

pic 2 & 3

DSC03729.JPG DSC03718.JPG

#13 7 years ago

Top rivet and connects look good.

Ok I can see where the number on the last schematic can say 81
That makes the red black on 3 player and grey on 5 player correct.
brown wire obviously wrong

So now were at the lowest connect.
I see green white on 5 which is correct.

So outstanding
We need
Spinner 1000 wire. Red yellow. on 3 player

White green? wire placement
Red white? wire placement
Black green which I think goes to both open rivets.

I need to look at the schematic but can't currently.

Maybe Chris can take a look tonight or o can look tomorrow

I think we are close to solving this mystery

#14 7 years ago

Where should the Red white wire be coming from, I don't see any available nearby for the ball count.
Heading off to sleep now, will check back tomorrow morning.
Thanks again for all the help, Jeff.

#15 7 years ago

I have done my own thing here, and came up with nearly the same answer as Jeff.

I think someone thought it would be great if you can score 1000 point from the spinner target when playing a 5 ball game by connecting the R/y and B/g wires with the brown wire.

1) To me it looks like the middle pin has not ever been used

2) On the schematic, it shows twice a Black/green wire connected to the pins of the 3/5ball adjust, once for lights and once for coils. In both cases this wire is numbered 84 which makes it the same wire.

3) The Yellow/Black wires should be connected; I suspect the brown wire is doing that.

Looking at what I have and what Jeff has, basically the same thing, but I made a pretty picture!!

freedom_3-5_ball.jpg

#16 7 years ago

After I post I see you guys a two steps ahead of me.

I thought that the White/Green wire was Yellow/Black, that changes thing a bit.

#17 7 years ago

If u could , could you also take a pic of the Spinner score change relay.

Thanks
-Jeff

#18 7 years ago

Yeah but your graphics are better Chris

I like the idea of skipping pin 2 and using pin 3 for a common black green on the rivet.

Then moving BR / red on 3 and grey on 5 down a notch.

I think th brown wire may be on the red yellow.

I dunno what the white green? On the other brown wire is

#19 7 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

I like the idea of skipping pin 2 and using pin 3 for a common black green on the rivet

Looking at the flux marks, I thing all the wire have be re-soldered.

#20 7 years ago

CookyJar, can you confirm a few things?
1) Is there signs that a wire has been connected to pin2 of the plug?
2) If not, is there continuity between pin 3 and pin2 on the plug ?
3) Is the White/green wire in fact Wh/G? Look into the wiring loom see if it still white/green.

Looking on the schematic, White/green wires in this area are the two from the transformer to the GI fuse and two wires on the flipper plug, hate to think that someone has made changes here.

There is also one on the Wheel unit disk, there may be others. One wire is 54-20, does that mean there is 19 other? Surely not

Where should the Red white wire be coming from

Which Red/white wire?

Whitegreen.jpg

#21 7 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

There is also one on the Wheel unit disk, there may be others. One wire is 54-20, does that mean there is 19 other? Surely not

Its supposed to

Im afraid the white green may be from the amp line wire

Quoted from Chrisbee:

Where should the Red white wire be coming from

Which Red/white wire?

Quoted from CookyJar:

Here are more detailed photos of the ball count.
The red white has been jumped via the big brown wire to the black green.

I think if we look closer we will find that he red yellow wire is jumped to the brown
or maybe Cooky mispoke

#22 7 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

I think if we look closer we will find that he red yellow wire is jumped to the brown
or maybe Cooky mispoke

You are correct, I mispoke, the red yellow wire is jumped to the brown wire then black green. Sorry about that.

I'll have pics of the spinner relay and be able to answer Chris' question once I get home this evening.

#23 7 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

CookyJar, can you confirm a few things?
1) Is there signs that a wire has been connected to pin2 of the plug?
2) If not, is there continuity between pin 3 and pin2 on the plug ?
3) Is the White/green wire in fact Wh/G? Look into the wiring loom see if it still white/green.

Hey Chris, it doesn't look like a wire has ever been connected to pin 2 of the plug, looks like no solder on it. No continuity between pin 3 and pin 2 on the plug. The White/green does appear to be white/green, though it is more off white than other white wires.

I'm going to upload more pics and some hi-res video of both the ball count and spinner relays.

#24 7 years ago

Ball count video

#25 7 years ago

Spinner relay video

#26 7 years ago

Now that I'm looking more closely at the spinner relay, there is a white/green wire. Though here it does appear more tan(light brown)/green then the wire jumped bythe ball count

#27 7 years ago

Spinner relay pics

DSC03734.JPG DSC03735.JPG

#28 7 years ago

Spinner relay pic

DSC03740.JPG

#29 7 years ago

What I don’t get yet is, if we connect wires 90-1(100 point RE) with 45-8 (100 point Spinner light) and 81-1(1000 point RE) with 13-3 (1000 point Spinner light) either the way I have described or the way Jeff describes, To me EVERY time the above RE’s activate the corresponding spinner light will come on, I don’t think that is correct even though that is how the schematic describes the connection too.

What do you think Jeff and Cooky?

Am I missing something?

Or is that W/g wire apart of this?

Try and follow the W/g wire back to see where it goes, it should not be there according to the Schematic.

Your spinner relay looks brand new.

Don’t ya just love these little problems!!!!!!

I wonder if the White green wire is really White Blue?

#30 7 years ago

Cooky, is there any wires on the spinners RE. that match our Mystery W/g wire?

#31 7 years ago

Think I got it. Wire 84 is only used once from the 6v to light the spinner lights. The Mystery W/g wire I think is really Brown/ green. Cooky look on your Original schematic see if this wire number is 64, on our scanned versions it looks like 84. If this is correct then I’m assuming the plug on the 3/5 ball is not the original

Presentation1.jpg

#32 7 years ago

Assuming the 64 wire, this is the correct wiring for the 3/5ball select plug.
Next Problem Please.

3-5ball.jpg

#33 7 years ago

assuming 64 Chris is spot on.
those schematics are hard to determine 6 8 and 5 some times especially from scans.

p.s. Chris i need some Victoria Bitters!

#34 7 years ago

Jeff, have you seen this thread from me? It's worth a carton of VB.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-techs-%e2%80%93-question

#35 7 years ago

Chris, you are correct. I checked the schematic and it is 64, so the mystery W/g is brown/green.
Nice graphics, they will be very helpful rewiring this correctly.

The Red/Yellow 1000 pt. is cut a bit short. Should I just use the large brown wire extension to reach the #3 socket or do you recommend something else? I've never rewired before.

And yes the spinner relay does look shinny and new. I wonder why it would have been replaced, I don't see any evidence of burn on the board.

Thank you both very much again, I wouldn't have been able to get this done without you. I'll let you know when I get the machine back together if the fix to the ball count wiring along with the adjustment to the coin unit will get the machine going again. If not I'll be back with more questions.

#36 7 years ago

Replace the wire with whatever you like. But if you want to keep the wiring the same, next time you pass an Auto wreckers pick up an old wiring harness, you are bound to fine the right colour wiring there.
And a bit of heat shrink from RS for the joint.
Have fun, nearly bedtime for me.

#37 7 years ago

Id splice it with some kind of similar red wire and then heat shrink the joint as Chris stated.

It will look much nicer

Ill bet the Spinner Relay was replcaed because the jacked wiring either didnt work or burned it out

#38 7 years ago

And hopefully they rewired the spinner relay correctly. Have a good weekend guys.

1 month later
#39 7 years ago

Hey Guys, after a month I'm finally through cleaning up the Freedom. Went through every switch and point to make sure that they were clean and in the correct open/closed position (with the exception of the score motor points). Also rewired ball adjustment according to Chris's guide.
But I'm still having the same problem I was before the shopping, I cannot get a game to startup. The game will light up, but that's it. It looks like the coin switches have been messed with (see pic below). I put credits on the credit reel manually and had the credit light on, but no luck. Also when I power up, the coin, credit, lock and reset relays lock on (see pic below, note power is off on the pic), not sure if they are supposed to lock on when powered up.
I'm hoping you guys can throw me more of that helpful advise that you're so good at. Thanks.

DSC03842.JPG DSC03848.JPG

#40 7 years ago

have you tried adding credits manually in the back box showing 1 or more in the window ?

#41 7 years ago

Yes, I have tried adding credits manually with no luck.

#42 7 years ago

hmm do they register and stay
or do they return to zero right away?

#43 7 years ago

Good, looks good in the pic all clean.

Lights are working so the Lock RE is on.

Make sure you have 10 credits on the credit reel. This way we can forget about the coin slots to start with. So when you turn the machine on the Lock RE is energised. Also the Game over Trip coil will be energized briefly, both coils get power when you turn on the machine. Once the Lock RE is in the energised position it turns off the power to the GO Trip coil. If all this is working, then when you push the credit button the Credit RE should energise.

#44 7 years ago

I think your problem is with the wire in the Pic above. The Credit RE gets power from the Transformer via a NC switch on coin shut two – Wire colours are Yellow and Red/White and that is the colours of the wire in the pic above.

Help.jpg

#45 7 years ago

On power up the lock relay becomes energized and stays on, the GO relay briefly becomes energized briefly as you said. The coin, credit and reset relay become energized and stay that way without anything else being pushed.
When I connect the Red/Yellow wire to either the White/Blue or White wire on the coin switch nothing happens when I press the credit/start button. However when I jump the White/Blue wire and White wire the score motor begins to run continuously until I remove the jump. The target bank continuously resets and the the player lights keep moving up till it reaches 4 player. The ball also is served into the shooter lane. Everything works on the playfield once I release the wire jump, that is until the ball hits the pops, it then goes to Game Over.
Not sure what to make of this, I've included another photo of the 2nd coin chute switch as well at the first.

DSC03852.JPG DSC03856.JPG

#46 7 years ago

Opps, forgot to attache the Yellow wire to the Red/Yellow and White wires. Going to try that now. What should I do with that Yellow/Black wire that is twisted to the Yellow wire?

#47 7 years ago

Nope, no luck even after a few combination of wires.
Also, just noticed what looks like a broken off base of a third lug next to lug the White/Blue wire is attached to. On my other two 70's Bally games, Old Chicago and Flip Flop they both have three lugs on the coin switch.

#48 7 years ago
Quoted from HELLODEADCITY:

hmm do they register and stay
or do they return to zero right away?

Yes, the credit register and stay when manually added on.

#49 7 years ago

On those old Bally games if you dont have the coin mech wired correctly the score motor will just keep spinning.
I had that problem on my Captain Fantastic.

The wires in different positions on the coin mech set the game for different Quarter/ Plays

#50 7 years ago

Any idea on what the correct postition is? Could you send a pic of the wires on your Captain Fantastic.

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